I ??? <p>[This message has been edited by Rodger (edited May 01, 2001).]

Do you think that anything is possible?<BR>Do you think that it is possible to love more than one person at a time?<BR>Do you think that their are circumstances that someone can lose all faculties of their mind?<BR>I don't know about your wife- I think she was involved with a police officer ( if I am wrong-ignore this)--maybe she was dealing with fear, anxiety--things that she doesn't ordinarily have to deal with--and dealing with a person of authority--I think the way you react is much different.<BR>Now, if that is just an excuse...we don't know.<P>My H says he loved me-always--always told the op that...he never stopped loving me, but he had to deal with ramifications of black mail, etc. --he a prof, her a student...so, even though it was an EA (just wanted to be friends--but she wanted to be married--she was nuts--fantasies of a prof, befriended him as an intern), that easily could have been sex--there was anxiety and fear that he could be black mailed--which made him crazy trying to figure out how to end it.. Some things are so complicated...<BR>We the BS are like well, all you had to do was this....<BR>and the WS is but, this could happen...<BR>I think that sometimes the ws is put into a position, kind of "set up" for a fall.<BR>It would bother me if there was no remorse, no guilt, etc--and no responsibility for their actions. --then was there really any love?<BR>I know we will never understand how a ws could do anything to a person they at the time and now continuously proclaim they love....

I agree with your position Rodger. I believe that words are cheap and the betraying spouse will say anything to justify their position. The betraying spouse is generally a liar and a cheat so why would you believe anything they say anyway?

Maybe your definition of love is different than her definition of love. <P>Love is more than a feeling. <P>Hopelessmom

Hi Roger,<P>Numbers and percentages. Not a good way to measure love. Logically, it should be. Too idealistic, too much emotion and hidden feelings. I'm a numbers person and had to learn this the hard way. <P>Roger, the love shared between a husband and wife can not be a divided love. Having sex with someone other than your husband is not an act of love, I don't care what is at stake. Could you do that? I know I could not. <P>What does being faithful mean? Where is one's loyalty? There is no % answer to these questions, you either are faithful and loyal or not. If this were such an easy thing, why are you and the rest of us having such a difficult time understanding your wife's position? <P>You are going over the same events in an effort to get a different perspective and yet it appears you keep coming back with the same conclusions as we are. Questions about your wife's faithfulness both then and now seem to be difficult for you to find an answer that you can accept. You may now need to ask yourself if you can either live with her answers or something else. <P>You have a difficult choice ahead of you, since your heart is involved. Please seek out counsel or someone that you can speak with face to face. We care about your happiness.<P>L.<P><BR> <P>

Definitely not an act of love...<BR>How my H expects me to actually believe that he loved me, while having an A--he is insane---Of course, i don't believe that.<BR>Loving someone--actions are loving or not loving..<BR>I firmly believe he did not love me then...If he ever loved me, I really don't know...What do we really believe anymore after this?<BR>He tells me he never stopped loving me.<BR>He was a selfish a**hole...I wish I had known, it was always who he was--I just had my eyes closed...<BR>Since, d-day he has been adamit that he is going to show me that he has changed...good thing, because if he hadn't I would not be married to such a jerk.<BR>I now know how unbelievably self-centered and selfish this person always was.<BR>Thank God I found out before are children grew up with a father like that.<BR>And I don't know how many times my H said (while having an A)--I don't know what love is, I love you, Maybe, I don't know what love is....So, how was I suppose to believe him...Crazy talk from the ws.<BR>I don't believe, personally, that you would do this to someone you love....I, actually, told my h that he must have hated me to do this...all of this that he "knew" would destroy me..He chose to do something that he knew would cause me deep sorrow....that is not love!!<BR>Not even in ounce of love would be present, I don't believe that you could care any less about someone, if you do this to them...<BR>My only question to him was---why didn't you let me go? <BR>(he couldn't let me go-live without me--dah, I was his maid) From day one...he should have left and let me have a life, be able to be with someone who loves me...But not only did I for some reason deserve to be lied, cheated on, etc....but I didn't deserve to be loved by anyone else.<BR>Selfish? -- That doesn't even come close..<BR>

For risk of having rotten eggs thrown at me...I was 100% in love with my spouse and yet I had an affair. Why...well, do you have an hour. Manipulation on the OP part, weakness on mine...not knowing how to get out of it since I was responsible for part of it. Before, during and after, I would have thoughts running through my mind of how I could be doing this and I felt physically sick. I didn't want be involved in it, yet I didn't stop it and I am a grown woman-college-educated even, yet found myself in a situation where I was doing something I did not want to be doing nor did I ever think I would be. I loved my husband...I tried to tell him it had nothing to do with him...it was as if another me was there? Does any of this make sense? I just want you to know that yes...I did love my husband 100%...still do..but now it's more like 110% because I almost lost him

Sosorry,<BR>My H tells me that he was split somehow--when he was with her, he didn't think about us...he said he always loved me and told her that. And he said that everything he did he didn't want to do...and I look at him today, and I say "Well, I'm glad all my pain was for something you didn't really want to do."<BR>I don't understand it and never will...that is what I have to move on...without understanding. (oh, and difinitely was the op the queen of lies, major coniving and manipulation...I don't know where she learned it, but everything I know now..she was very good (and only 21), but she was the biggest seducer you could imagine...my H really believed she was a "good" person, now he sees her for what she really is and he hates her and everything about her--and her family, who were helping her try to get a married man, sick people....)<BR>I know now that he loves me more than ever..Sadly, I feel like he loved me more in the past. If I could just FEEL like he loved me half as much as I use to feel...But maybe that will come eventually...I just don't FEEL his love.

Crete...<BR>Why do you feel like he loved you more in the past? I can't say I love my husband more...because I couldn't love him anymore than I already did...but I can say I sure appreciate him more.<BR>PS. your comment...you are glad your pain was for something you really didn't want to do hit home..owww..thank you though for it...it really teaches me what my husband went through

Hi sosorry,<P>Thank you for your post. Yes I do have an hour to listen to you since I cannot get the information I need from my wife. Actually I am worried it might cause more trouble so I don't try to confront her. If she brings up the topic then I am happy because then I can express a few more feelings. Last night I was able to tell her I was still a little angry. She said now I should be zero percent angry. But I said no it takes a long time. I said maybe in one or two years (according to what I read). Not that I am trying to be angry but I want my wife to know that recery takes time and possibly this topic might come up in the future. Sosorry, I read some of your past posts. I read your husband did not want to wear his wedding ring after the affair. Well I felt the same way. I wanted to destroy every Email that my wife had sent me for seven months. I considered all the Emails as lies. Before that I looked at ech Email as building a strong foundation for our marriage. Then that foundation got destroyed. Now we have to build a new foundation. But your story was good because maybe my wife was like you. She is very intelligent and definitely is no easily controlled by men. She is not weak, she is very educated and knows right from wrong. She said she was 100% in love then and now and yet she had an affair two weeks before coming to America to meet me??????????/

About feeling the love my H has for me--I don't know why I don't feel it. His behavior and actions prove how much he loves me.<BR>i don't think I have ever seen him smile the way he smiles at me all the time. It is weird, but he is truly happy now (minus all the pain we deal with).<BR>anyway, I think that my not feeling it, is a protective mechanism for me...As if he hurts me again, It won't be so painful...I think it comes down to letting myself feel it.<BR>Letting him in to a protective wall I built up for myself after finding out about the A...<BR>We talked about trust this week. no, I don't completely trust him...not about having another affair- but with my heart, with telling him my feelings, ect. I realize now that I must have never completely trusted him with myself...I didn't always feel I could talk to him about my feelings...he use to say they were ridiculous, irrational, stupid...They are feelings--and I don't think he ever respected them.<BR>Now that he does, I still don't find myself sharing all of mine...I think I am still very much in fear of letting myself be completely myself with him...and I am trying to get past this.

Crete-maybe you don't seem that same smile because he feels so bad about what he did? I still can't relax wondering if my husband is still thinking about all I did. I, like your husband, am truly happy now too-I think we WS that are truly sorry learn alot about priorities. I know my husband feels exactly as you do-won't let his wall down completely yet. I acted so out of character for me, and he was so blown away, he is just afraid I could "turn" again. He never expected it the first time, how could he know if it would happen again? Thus the wall similar to yours. If it gives you peace-let your wall down and let him in-maybe that is all he needs to get that smile back. My husband used to complain that I was getting "too comfortable" again-my response always was I should be able to be "comfortable" in my marriage-that is what I am striving for-where I don't have to look at him and wonder if he is still thinking about it. Anyway, in my humble opinion, let your wall down...go for it 100%-take a deep breath and just do it! I know I wish my husband would. Where is that amnesia drug when we all need it!!!!!!! PS. I'm otherwise known as sosorry on these boards but I am on my home computer now and can't remember my password or couldn't retrieve it-so I had to reregister.

Rodger,<P>If I remember your story correctly this incident possibly was not an affair, but rape. Now if that was the case it is a whole different animal and should be treated as such. You know better than I, certainly. But an incident certainly can be rape when the victim willingly submits under certain kinds of circumstances. It certainly sounds to me at least as if this may have been the case here - I believe you mentioned the possibility of cultural aspects, corresion, fear, duty, etc. Just wanted to point out clearly that there does not need to be physical force or violence for it to be rape. What matters was her perception of the situation. I was the victim of rape myself and came out of the incident without a scratch, I submitted "willingly" and without a fight - although in my case it is because the rapist had a gun and threatened to kill me. The point is though there are still some out there who would doubt I truly was raped, because I didn't fight it, because I was not injured, because I was not force physically, merely with the threat and fear of death or injury.<P>Not saying this IS the case in your situation, I can't know, and it sounds as if you've struggled with this yourself as well. Just suggesting you decide definately in your own mind first what the true situation was in her mind (if you haven't already) before mulling through the other aspects, because it makes a huge difference if it truly was an affair or truly was rape, and it can't have been somehow a bit of both. Perhaps now you are certain it was an affair, not rape, if so I appologize for popping in, just seemed like you were still struggling a bit about what it truly was and what that means.<P>Juanita<P>

Well last night my wife told me something else when I questioned her some more. She hated my questions but I hated now knowing anything and constantly thinking every minute of the day why it happened. My wife said she was angry at me for a month or two and this is why she had an affair. Now I know it was an affair and not a rape. It was sort of a date rape but she consented to it. The policeman set it up and she decided not to resist because she was angry at me. Everyday her landlady said I was a no good husband because I did not send enough money to China. So after hearing this constantly my wife got to thinking that maybe this is true. We had been separated for a long time and also she had an urge. So the situation came up and she went for it. I am not any less happened to know what she did but at least now I know a little about why. She definitely knows it was wrong to do what she did. Indeed it is unforgiveable. But because I like a lot of things about her, I decided to keep her. I think it really helped that she amitted something finally. Then I don't have to think was it an affair? Was it rape? Was it prostitution? No it was an affair. So my case is the same as everyone else's on this list. These things do give one alower opinion of one's spouse. I am not sure if it can ever be 100% again?

"Now I know it was an affair and not a rape. It was sort of a date rape but she consented to it. The policeman set it up and she decided not to resist because she was angry at me. "<P>Yes, I see Rodger. I am sorry for you, but glad you finally seem to know exactly what you're dealing with. I do need to say that there's no "sort of" date rape, forgive me, as a victim of rape myself I'm a bit sensitive to the need for others to really understand what it is and is not, in order for victims to have the support they need and deserve. If she consented, and went ahead of it out of anger with you, etc. as she has said then you are right that it was, well maybe not an "affair" exactly (perhaps I'm wrong but that sounds as if it implies more than a one time act? Splitting hairs here, no doubt), but certainly cheating and a betrayal.<P>Just wanted to let you know I hear ya, and I definately see your point, best of luck to you.<P>Juanita

Hi Juanita,<P>Yes I think now that no stories my wife told me are true. It might have been a two month affair. At least I know it was an affair. It is in my mind the worst crime that a wife can ever do to her husband. Yet I love my wife enough to try and live with this. But if she was one bit les of the woman I wanted then yes I would have divorced her right away. What she did was unbelievable in my mind. I guess every betrayed spouse feels the same way. But It really did help to know what the story was for me.

hi Rodger,<BR>Great post, thank you for bringing this up.<BR>Yes, I do believe you can be 100% in love with someone and have an affair. I think people can separate sex from love.<BR>That is only a small part of what you are asking! <BR>Hmmm, when i think back to shortly after discovery, i remember wanting to be assured that I was the most important person to my h at all times. Then struggled with weighing the two sides. I tend to be analytical more than emotional and wan things to make sense. Having sex with others and loving me 100% did not match in my mind. I had to listen to what he was saying-I mean listen and accept. That does not mean I understand-I never truly will-but I can accept it as the way he felt.<BR>aloha, cl

Well my recent discovery is that the sex happened because my wife was angry with me. Still can't understand this either but at least I know somethinhg more now. So at that time there was no 100% love happening. Maybe there was 50% love and that's why there was room in my wife's mind for another man. She does think it was wrong now what she did. She told many versions of stories for why it happened:<P>1. Sexual urge<BR>2. Payment for police services<BR>3. Date rape, was scared<BR>4. Because she was angry at me<BR>5. Don't know why<P>Pretty well has tried all the possible reasons. Maybe she is looking for the story that seems to work the best. I don't know. Story 1 to 5 is in the order she gave them to me. <P>I still think 100% love means you cannot possibly do this to your spouse. 100% love means they are in your mind and you would not put yourself into the situation. But I could be wrong.