Hello,<P> How many of you believe A, just happen. In my h case it was planned and calculated. She gave the first signal. My H thought about it for 2 weeks, and decided to go for it.<P> Anyone else have this problem?<P>------------------<BR>Deb

<P> I can even pinpoint the day he decided to go for it. Even though I didn't find out about it for about 3.5 months. It was instant coldness, and fights.<P>------------------<BR>Deb

Yes, same thing for me. Even if it is spontanious, you still know what you are doing. And I don't buy alcohol as an excuse. No matter how drunk you are you still know if you are cheating on your spouce.<P>There are many different reasons to have an A, and I do believe you can get somewhat pulled into having one by the OP, but it all boils down to yes, you know what you are doing and you know it is wrong, and you know this would destroy your spouce.<P>I can tell by your posts you have been having a hard time lately, I have too, that's why I haven't been posting as much, but I do know how you feel.

Hello Deb, Very Hurt,<P>I feel the sadness in your posts. I am so sorry that you are both also having such horrible times.<P>I know just how you feel.<P>My ws met op in a bar; he knew what it might lead to and he didn't stop. Then, auto accident/both of them in his truck/drunk/hi speed/wet roads/hospital emergency rooms/op filed bodily injury lawsuit/got $25, 000 and they were off/premeditatively/saved money and all to plan to leave me and our kids.<P>One year later/hardened and cold and frozen as far as I am concerned. A continues; d. close at hand, I suspect.<P>I will make sure wording rings loud and clear as to the truth.<P>I'll not sign a no-fault, voluntary separation, no abandonment, no adultery.<P>Keeping both of you in my prayers.<P>elo

Maybe some but I am sure not most. In my H's case, he was on the prowl. Had many one not night but day stand occurances. A couple went on more than once and the current one has been running hard since Aug/Sept 2000. This one went EA to a quick PA. It is the EA that is the killer. <P>These A's are not just accidents. I firmly believe that there are many highly experienced OWs and OMs out there who see an easy target (usually our Ws's - who think they are hot stuff) and prey on them. The OW I have to deal with is such a person. Portrays herself as a lonely, self righteous, needy woman when she is really a tramp in search of a victim. H can't really see that yet, but he does see the need to leave her. Says he is having a hard time but this tramp is one demanding ...... Won't take NO for an answer kind of person if you know what I mean. <P>These women, position themselves out there in the internet world, at bars, gyms, work, wherever they feel they can find their victims. Lay low and spring into action at a momments notice. You will find them living next door to you, see them at the grocery store, could be a co-worker, someone you see at the laundry mate, etc. Anywhere. What they do behind closed doors would shock most of us. Yet, they do it as a routine and so casually. When do they find the time to do all this prowling? Taking it away from their responsibilities and cause others to do the same. Late nights, lying about work, early mornings. Whenever, they are not picky just as long as they get what they set out for: Our Ws's hearts and soul. <P>Does that mean we should lock ourselves away and not trust anyone? No, we have to live in this world and deal with it. But we can be more aware, be prepared, listen, watch and learn. Warn when we can and run when we should. Because A's don't just happen, someone usually plans them.<P>L.

bnbsdbG,<P>I've asked my wife this question. She honestly never set out to have an affair...in her case it did "just happen."<P>The OM has worked in her office ever since she started there eight years ago. They were just co-workers for many, many of those years. About a year and a half ago they started to become friends. They would hang out with the same people in the office, and just started talking to each other more then before. They soon got to know each other, and liked being around each other.<P>Towards the end of '99 my wife started to feel that she was becoming attracted to him. It scared her. She didn't know why she was having these feelings. She was also afraid to tell me because she had cheated on me several years ago and didn't know how I would react this time around. So, she kept it to herself and just tried to suppress these feelings.<P>However, the one thing she didn't do was stop hanging around him. He would come by her desk a lot. They would chat, etc. Over the next few months it evolved into light flirting. The light flirting gave way to heavy flirting (you get the picture). <P>Pretty soon she could no longer suppress these feelings. She was relying on HIM to keep things from going too far (he is married too). Unfortunately, he was now attracted to her as well. One day he told her that he knew of a place close by, and would she like to go there? She found herself saying yes, and before she knew it the EA had become a PA. Suddenly she was having an affair, and she didn't even know at the time how it got that far. It would take four months and many other "encounters" with him before she would have the strength to end it.<P>So, in my wife's case. There was a slow build-up, but she never set out in the beginning to do it. Once it started going it just seemed to take on a life of its own - that's why they call it "the fog." <P>We are now seven months into recovery, and I can say that she has been remarkable in helping us heal and working to restore our marriage. Those feelings of hurt are still there to some degree, but they are fading. It helps to have a spouse that is committed to recovery and also buys into the MB concepts.<P>I tell you though, a LOT of pain and suffering could have been avoided if she wasn't so scared of telling me about it in the beginning...<P>-HD

Hello,<P> Thank you for responding to my ANGER and RESENYMENT!!<P> H: I was wondering were you went? My H does not do what I need either. If I feel badly, he just leaves the room!!! Like it is just going to blow away with the wind. Funny thing we had an 80 mile per hr wind yesterday, and it did not go anywere!<P> ELO: Read your posts. Really tough time. {{{{{{ELO}}}}}}}}<P> Le: Your always so cheerful. Wish I had your attitude, but I don't. DD for me wasn't end day for my H.<P> Hurt deep: My H left his first wife the same way he was planning on leaving me, only differnce,this one would not leave her 14 year SU for him.(Shack Up) By the time I founf out about the A, the date was in motion for her to decide!!. May 5th 2000. I guess I was nothing to the man after 19 years!!<P>------------------<BR>Deb

Hi, all,<P>Very interesting discussion/dialogue in this post. I am following this one.<P>My H told me that the second time he re-entered that Hell Hole of a bar(my description), op ran up to him and kisssed him and welcomed him. She was the barmaid of the garbage spot. She was out there, scanning the landscape, seeing where she could dig her shovel...and since she had been in jail, if she could find anything above the level of jail or the streeet, she felt she had struck gold... In his mid-life crisis ( I really believe) along with his narcissistic personality and his borderline personality, the connection was made--driving 65 mph on a wet windy road- drunk -with op was irrational and irresponsible...<P>Takes two to tango...he does abuse alcohol...he made some very stupid decisions...after the accident, he felt more sorry for getting her involved in the accident than he felt sorry for the adultery and the alcohol and the irreparable damage to his wife and family...sick, sick, sick...<P>So unfortunate and sad to sad to say, there are "LEECHES"<BR>out there whose career is to destroy families for their own SELFISH AGENDA... So, to this day and time and moment, this op believes she is winning...at the expense of me and my three children...<P>This op who has been married/divorce 3x is a loser; and I can only hope and pray, that my H will escape and not be snared by this evil person..but from what I am seeing and hearing from him, a d. is on the horizon...And I feel powerless and can't rescue my children and I from the devastation of d.<P>Her filing for bodily injury on our ins. policy for $25,000 after the auto accident was the most shrewd and conniving plan...she did strike gold... which I want to believe will turn to Fool'g gold and she will get what she really deserves...<P>A's are not ususally accidents...from my perspective, it would be hard for me to believe that this person did have her "Antenna up" hoping to receive signals from someone whom she could prey upon...<P>A bumper I saw: "DRINK UNTIL THEY'RE CUTE"...<P>Alcohol is insidious...<P>Thanks for caring by replying...<P>Love and prayers to you all, elo<P>This is what I try to cope with on a minute to minute basis.<P>

OW was a coworker of my H (a subordinate), she worked on my H for about 6 months (he not realizing it), then out of nowhere kissed him. He didn't speak to her for 2 weeks after, then it went PA. She hit him at very stressful time in most areas of his life. After they had sex once and he tried to break it off many times she threatened to tell me. She knew exactly what she was doing. She was married too and I have found out my H was not the first boss she preyed and not the last. All this aside, he still knew he was f***ing someone other than his W, and instead of coming clean he kept f***ing her to keep her quiet. I am sorry about the language but h*ll yes he knew what he was doing.<P>I know he has since been a changed man and he is sorry for what he did, he's sorry he even met her but somehow that just doesn't take the pain away.

Well, I suppose I agree with some of the posts here already.<BR>I do think that there are predatory people out there who have little respect for marriage...either yours or theirs.<BR>But I believe that there must be some signal that the WS give thems that indicates what their resonse to an invitation for a flirtation or an affair would be. We have all probably come into contact with people who come on too strong or make us feel uncomfortable. Why can we draw the line and yet our WS have difficulty doing so? <P>That difficulty is probably the difference...flattery is hard to resist but we all know when that line has been crossed and when we need to nip it in the bud. For whatever reason, some people just succumb more easily...maybe it's their vunerablity because they are missing something in their marriage...maybe they are seeking something differenct...whatever the reason...at some point they make a conscious decision to continue...for their own sake. And once you get on the ride it's hard to get off...because it feels too good.<P>My WS has become a serial cheater...he apparently got involved with some men who were wealthy and were the subject of a lot of women's attention...he liked what he saw..and decided to pursue the life-style on his own. Eventually a woman came along who picked up on that and took him up on it....3 months later he was gone. Oh, that didn't work out, but he was hooked on the lifestyle...mainly because he has low self-esteem and he gets lots of good feed back from these women...as long as they can use him. He has lessons to learn and he's now in the hands of good teachers.<P>There are so many different reason why people stray that I'm not sure there is one answer to your question. Some say it's selfishness....some say it's weakness...some say it's fulfilling a missing need...some say it's being in the wrong place at the wrong time...but whatever the cause it's not going to be the final solution because the WS is still looking to others to fill up the emptiness inside them, and we all know that it's not possible for another human being to do that for someone else. But lives get thrown away in the process...and that is the same thing about all this.<P><BR>Faye

Hi there,<P> I think many times there are flirtations going on with people , where people are "feeling them out". I live in a very conservative, family oriented town and the way alot of these women come on to the the men is unbelievable. I used to think it was harmless but now can see it all clearly.<P>For instance we were all out in a group last night for our children's ball team. One of the women sat by one of the men(his W was not there ,she was with their other child) and the woman started saying, (joking around) "if his W didn't want him she'd take him"......now, her H was sitting there oblivious and the guy seemed oblivious and it was all said kidding around. I truly believe that alot of men are blind to it all (sorry guys) until they are pulled in.<P>Maybe I'm just very cynical now, but my antenna was up....LU<P><BR>

Deb;<BR>Do they just happen? I had to think that over and over again. I feel in my case it did just happen and my case is very similiar to Hurting Deeply's wife. Was a co-worker. We started chatting at work - turned to heavy flirting and then we stopped it. We felt we had crossed the lines (emotional affair but didnt know that was what it was) and stopped the chatting, but felt as though we were soul mates. Both said we felt like we were getting in over our heads and agreed that it had to stop and reminded one another that we were grateful for what we had at home.<P>HOW DID IT FINALLY HAPPEN? Our company had to rent vans to "cart around" a group of guests coming to our office. Me and OM were in in breakroom when human resourses asked if we could go and pick up vans, and both were sent from the office to go for the company. When we were riding in the car together to car rental company, we began talking a bit and laughing about it all - seemed so silly. He reached over and grabbed my hand and rest was history. It happened so fast I almost couldnt breathe - much less stop it.<P>I do think they can just happen...without thought or planning. I know though if I would have said NO, or I cant - he would have stopped. Somehow I couldnt find those words and we continued to see each other for the next few months. Just whenever we had spare time, but we didnt cancel any plans to make it happen or do anything extraordinary. We never exchanged gifts or love thoughts or intimate secrets of our spouses. <P>For me - I have always been a self confident person and didnt do it for the attention, but that part was nice. The sexual was amazing and maybe for the first time I experienced things I had not before. Was addicting. The pain and guilt however began to outweigh any pleasure from it and I told him (still am) that I cannot do this anymore. I can see that for him it is a game though...I think that it is almost a goal for him to see if I will give in again. Feel like such a fool.<P>Men can do "It" - affairs, and never become emotionally involved better than women. Guys reading here - dont be mad. But typically men can compartmentalize and keep affairs separate according to my therapist. Women run the "whole pie" outlook and weigh everything together and equally. Men can slice it all up and view each one independantly of the other and allow one not to affect the other in many cases.<P>I have learned so much from this whole sordid event that I will protect myself better and now know the signs before it snowballs again.<P>Scuba

THANK YOU FOR ALL REPLYS,<P> SCUBA: I AM SO HAPPY YOU ARE WAKING UP!!!!!<P> {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Scuba}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P> I am better myself, had a huge falling out with H. Called him many names, All better. Bottling this up just makes for an explotion.!! My H trys to ignore it like it's just magicly going to go away. He doesn't understand. I also started back on my Prozac, I was having feelings of " I wish I were dead." again. My H thinks I enjoy this!!!!!<P>------------------<BR>Deb