I'm the WS in my marriage, and DD was just about 1 month ago. I've been posting here and gotten some good advice, but am really perplexed with the latest questions from my W.<P>During the "height" (actually low point) of the A, I was actually thinking I could get my W to move out, leave the house and kids, and I'd be able to move the OW right in. I went so far as to introduce the OW to my children. Really horrible stuff that I did.<P>My W asked me lots of details about this period last night, and wants to know "how" I planned to accomplish what I wanted. She has lots of "how" questions. I tried to explain to her that I didn't think that far ahead - only in generalities - but she doesn't understand that. I told her what I've read about "the Fog" here, and how I seemed to be living in a fantasy world in my mind. I also tried to explain that if I'd been "thinking", I wouldn't have done what I did.<P>She said that in order to put this behind us, she needs to have these questions answered. I want to be 110% honest, but don't know what to say. How do I explain that I could rationalize throwing away an 18 year marriage for a few months affair, without thinking it through?<P>Please help.

Jcook,<BR>If you & your W aren't in counseling, I'd highly recommend it.<P>When I was asking those sorts of questions, this is basically what I wanted to know: that my H loves me, he regrets and is sorry for everything he did, and pretty much everything he thought . And that he intends never to do it again and will be with me until death us does part.<P>Asking a lot of questions can be a way of trying to be safe. Tying up all the loose ends, fixing them, obliviating them, so it never happens again.<P>My counselor finally got me to stop by asking me how these questions and the answers were helping my marriage at this time. And furthermore, he pointed out that each time I asked this sort of question I made my H feel like a failure, he lost hope, started thinking I'd never get over it and our marriage would be like prison camp forever.<P>Now, if my H had said that...truthfully, I don't think I would have listened, I think he *did* say some of it and I didn't listen...because I wanted to *KNOW*.<P>You should tell her the things you can, and just know that they won't help her, she'll likely have more things to feel icky about--restaurants, neighboring towns, events, highways, whatever is involved.<P>My H also told me that if he went back to living that kind of [jerk] lifestyle it would kill him and even if our marriage didn't work, he wouldn't be that kind of man ever again. And, he has followed those words with actions that line up to it.<P>It's taken time, patience & love, but I'm feeling some safety with my H, some trust, the anxiety is nearly gone.<P>There really is hope if you work together--remembering you are on the same side and not supposed to be lobbing pain at each other. And this is where a good counselor can really help, it's a place where you know that you can both safely unload and the C will help & guide you so that the wounds aren't so bloody.

Thanks Lor.<P>Just to clarify, she was very kind in asking these things. Yes, we are in counseling (just started joint). I don't mind trying to answer anything, as I want to be honest and I want this to work. I just don't know how to answer these more fully - while being truthful.<P>Thanks again.

Okay this is what I would like to hear:<P>How he was so stupid, idiotic, and obviously not thinking clearly. But that would never happen again because he has realized I mean so much more to him than he ever thought before. He could never even get to that again because he only has eyes and a heart for me. If he ever thought someone was attractive again, even with no feelings, he would immediately talk to me about it (which would probably diminish any beauty that was there). Let her know that you are a different person now. I would want to be romanced. Apologized to without asking for it. I want to know I was better than her on all aspects, beauty, sexually, heart, the whole bit. Let her know that you were brain warped, but have learned from your mistake and will never take her for granted again.<P>These are things I want to hear, but remember only the truth. If you don't mean something fully, don't say it.

jcook, I was wondering how you guys were doing. My H is out of town tonite but I told him about your post.<BR>We were so where you are.In some ways still are.MANY questions. You are lucky she is being kind! I wasn't so nice and we are still here. Thank God. But neither was he.<P>You are not going to be able to rationalize what you did.I am just getting to the point, 8 months after D day,where I am realizing I am never gonna understand how this happened to us. And neither is my H. Doesn't stop us from trying, maybe clarity will come in a flash of light and we can pinpoint. Yeah,right, maybe in the movies. Truth is people do all kinds of stupid things for all kinds of stupid reasons. My H also says he wasn't thinking, and if he had been rational, he wouldn't have done what he did. GOD, I hate THAT. But it's really true.<P>I feel for your W so much. AND I know exactly how she feels.And you,too. But I can't relate to your feelings the way I can to hers.<BR>You need to answer her questions, they will not go away on their own. Just be honest,my H wishes he had been. He told me what he thought I wanted to hear and most of it made it worse. It can be worse than the truth and she has a right to know who she's married to, Don't let your deep shame get in the way of being honest. If you still don't know how you felt,tell her she'll have to wait til you figure it out and THEN REAlly try to figure it out. My h just wanted me to stop asking so he said stuff that wasn't true because he was ashamed and I think, didn't want to admit to me or himself how low he had sunk.He didn't do much thinking about what he had done because he just wanted it to go away.He is now, though. AND MB has helped him as much as it has me.<BR> At least you can have no illusions about OW. That's one thing you have going for you guys. <P>We BSs are trying to make sense of the senseless. I'm never gonna make it fit in my head. This is still something that wasn't possible for people like us. But it happened and we are left with the questions. Love her through it...try to let her cry without taking it too personally. She hurts and will wake up every day with tears and go to sleep every nite with tears for a few months. Truth helps...but yor love will help more.<P>I hope this helps. Keep us posted, Give her a big hug, Praying for you both. It may help her to come here,too<p>[This message has been edited by Wounded2673 (edited April 09, 2001).]

Hi J.<P>It is good that you have come here and work on your recovery. Your wife also needs to do the same. It is good you are in counseling. <P>For many of us, being here is what really helped. My H and I were in joint counseling sessions but the real progress for me was when I came here. I learned so much about the entire process, so much to learn. I am the BS and had to learn about this site by myself. I shared some of the information with H. We even had 1 phone session with Dr Harley. <P>Please let your wife know that she is welcomed here. There are couples that both post to this site and that is a bold step to recovery. <P>L.

The advice that LOR gave you is right on target. I am a BS. H and I are very early in recovery. Like your W, I felt this uncontrollable need to constantly ask H questions about his feelings and to let him know about my feelings, too. As Lor's counselor pointed out to her, these kinds of questions and answers do NOT help.<P>I just spoke with Jennifer Harley and she told me the same thing...talking about and trying to analyze the past is NOT going to help me heal. Instead, H's current actions to protect me are what will help me to heal. Having said all this, if you W wants answers, I'm not sure how you can tell her that asking these questions will not help her to heal. Obviously, you will need to be careful in how you tell her this. In short, Jennifer told me that H and I need to put our energy in the present and not dwell on the past because no matter how much we want to change the past, we can't.<P>dolphin

I know dolphin and Lor are right...all the Counselors say don't dwell...stop asking, it won't help. So, how do you get past that?<BR>My H is dealing with his own emotions re:the A for the first time. Does it help to talk about it? I think it does...It is becoming clear in his head. And that can only be good.<P>I can;t think of anything that made me madder at our C than when she said "Yup, I KNOW you NEED to ask questions but it won't help you,so you may not have what you need".Not that brutal but that's how it felt. EVEN knowing she was right. I NEEDED and I was being asked to give...OK, give ME something then. But that was then.<P> NOw, 8 months from D day, I am more ready to look forward but if we hadn't talked as much as we did, if he hadn;t at least TRIED to give what I needed, I don't know if I would have stayed.He is now wanting to explore the why. Do you think that's bad?<BR>Don't mean to harp. This is jcooks thread not mine. We don't dwell on the past but we talk about it fairly openly now. Sorry, it's a BIG life changing thing for us all. How do you just get over it,without even trying to understand. I guess you can, you guys are!! Any advice?<P>

Thanks very much everyone!<P>The big thing that's bugging me with this, is that I WANT to answer her - I just don't know how. I think it is very difficult for my W to understand that I just DIDN'T think. You see, I am known as someone who thinks through and analyzes every move I make. Here I made the worst mistake of my life, and did it with very little detailed thought. As I told her, if I'd have thought about it to any degree, I wouldn't have done it. Hard to explain to someone when you don't understand it yourself.<P>BTW, I'm reluctant to post my entire detailed story here, due to legal issues yet to be resolved. But, if it will help anyone to help us, send me a private e-mail and I'll detail the situation to you.<P>Thanks again!!!

I wanted to clarify something from my earlier post to this thread. Jennifer Harley's advice to me regarding my need to ask H questions and talk about our feelings was first and foremost to follow the POJA. My situation is probably different than WOUNDED's because at least at the present time, my H does NOT want to talk/analyze the past.<P>Accordingly, because I do not have H's enthusiastic agreement to talk about these issues, we don't talk about it or love units will be withdrawn from my account in H's love bank. If H enthusiastically agreed to discuss these issues then Jennifer would say, "Go for it," even knowing that H's answers to my questions would likely not soothe my pain. Instead, as I said in the earlier post, what will help me to heal are the actions that H takes to protect me NOW.<P>Having said all this, since you want to answer W's questions, there is no problem with the POJA. Accordingly, I think that the only thing you can do is take actions to protect W now, which I think you are doing. And, answer her questions honestly. If the answer is that you honestly don't know, then that is what you tell your W and if you subsequently discover the answer, then tell W.<P>As far as my ability to "just get over it," the fact is that I have not. As I said, I am very early in the recovery process and I do think that I would feel better if H did want to talk. Although H's answers probably wouldn't make me hurt any less, his willingness to try to please me would certainly mean something.<P>dolphin<P>[This message has been edited by dolphin (edited April 10, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by dolphin (edited April 10, 2001).]

Dolphin, I guess that's what I was trying to say and you said it better!<BR>When my H wasn't willing to talk for 6 months, I was stuck more in the pain. With the help of this board, he has seen that it would help me and wants to do just that. NOt that it isn't self-motivated in some way. He wants us over this ASAP. If this will get me throught it sooner, he will do anything to accomplish that goal.<BR>For a long time, it was I don't Know. But he made no attempt to figure it out. Said it was not possible.Said that I don't know wpu;d just have to be good enough. Well, he has found out that he was wrong. It just means thinking about it some. Still some I don't knows but at least he tries.<P>I'm sorry your H is stuck where mine was, dolphin. This board really helped him.