A quick note about my situation. My husband began a PA in December 1999, after we returned from our 10th anniversary trip to Hawaii. I found out about the A on March 19, 2000. He tried to stop seeing OW but it didn't last. He told me he didn't know who he wanted. So on May 1, 2000 he got his own apartment, however he tried to see us both without her knowing that he was seeing me.<P>In September of 2000 we went to a concert in D.C. and he told her he was going to a football/baseball game in Cleveland. I helped him cover, because I dearly love him. He has always maintained that he does not know who he wants to be with.<P>Now he lives at home. He moved back in on the 23rd of January, 2001 and swears that he wants to me with me and our 3 children, but he doesn't know exactly how to tell OW. He told her that he moved home for the kids. He still sees her on the evenings he's off. He tells her that he sleeps on the couch, when in reality he sleeps in my bed every night. I go along with this because I know that the relationship between H and OW won't last (look at all the lies). And I also know her type.(she's sucking all of the money she can out of my husband).<P>I am trusting that God knows best. I believe that he will put our marriage and family back together. I think that my H moving home was a step in the right direction. Is that how you see it?<P>I believe that the fog is lifting. He tells me that he sees there is no future with her, but he feels obligated to her because of the promises he made to her and her kids. Is he just BSing me? Maybe. But I have oodles of faith in God. I am a very strong woman but I could use a pep talk and maybe someone who has been through the same situation could be my friend.<P>Thanks for listening. God bless you all.

I'm putting a clip from the marriage builders articles below.<BR>"Sometimes a wayward spouse settles into a routine of having his or her cake and eating it too. In an effort to win the wayward spouse back, the betrayed spouse meets emotional needs that the lover cannot meet, while the lover meets emotional needs that the wayward spouse has not learned to meet. While this competition is excruciatingly painful to the betrayed spouse, and the lover as well, the wayward<BR>spouse basks in the warmth of being loved and cared for by two people, with no real motivation to choose one over the other". <BR>The way I see it, your husband has the wife and family at home and the girlfriend that he can go on dates with. He has enough cake for 10 guys! You mentioned that his relationship with the OW is based on lies but I also see your marriage being based on that right now too. He's feeding you both a bunch of crap! <P><BR>

Thanks for your honesty. I tend to agree with everything that you say. However, right now I also have a piece of cake. You see as long as I am strong enough to take this crap I get to keep my money (my husband is doctor), my house, my kids and everything I have worked so hard for. <P>Don't get me wrong. I love him too. But I love who he was and can be without that greedy ****. You see if I left him I would have to share my children with her and I refuse to let her help raise them. She has no morals. She's having an affair with a married man. And of course there he is. <P>If I made him choose, he is the type of person who would leave out of spite, say I didn't love him enough to tough out his confusion and take my kids to her every weekend. I just can't deal with that. I can deal with everything else a lot easier than sharing my babies (14yr. boy, 8yr. boy, 3yr. girl)<P>Help me if you can. God bless.

Geez, I don't know how I could help you. I just can't imagine my husband going off evenings for a "date". Maybe if she knew all of the details between the two of you she'd dump him! I guess I strongly feel that by your "allowing" him to date it will be a pattern you'll always have in your marriage. If not her, some other woman. I think it's wonderful that some marriages are stronger after an affair because of the communication that developed between the couple. I think a majority never cheat again. But, that majority is very remorseful and I bet you if they ever DID do it again the BS would not be in such a hurry to forgive. In your situation there is no remorse but instead he's openly dating. Isn't that the same thing as an "open-marriage?" As far as his money. So far the divorce laws are still giving the dad a pretty good beating financially. I would guess that you'd still live a decent life-style if it came down to that. In fact, there are a lot of men like your husband that actually clean up their act once they see what divorce IS going to cost them.

You know what you want...<BR>But why in the world would you lower yourself to lying--covering up for him..<BR>That to me is not helping YOU--that is helping him continue his affair...Does that not sound a little NUTTY to you?<BR>How can you trust in God and then turn around and actually Lie....That to me would be denying God's help.<BR>God is truth is he not...let their be truth from someone in all this--YOU.<BR>I can't tell you what to do...But I will tell you that when I found out I confronted both of them...I told my H you can love two people, but you can't have 2 relationships and the ow-agreed with me...So, he came back home.<BR>I would confront her...and if I knew my H was lying to her..even if she didn't believe me...I would tell her the truth....Let the truth in to all this. See what happens with truth, instead of lies.<BR>Whatever you do, you have to be ready for every possible outcome and it doesn't seem like you are ready for them.<BR>I don't necessarily think that your H moving back in with you was or was not a step in the right direction...He still has his family and he still has the ow...Why not live at home and have you take care of him??? And go out on dates? He has to be so deep in the fog...Promises he made to her and her kids...WHAT ABOUT HIS MARRIAGE VOWS TO YOU AND YOUR CHILD!!!!!!

Thanks guys.<P>Let me just say that yes God is about truth. So maybe I'm not so Godly. What I am is happy to see the other woman look like a FOOL. Someday soon she will find out about his lies and I want her to look just as stupid as I did. Hostility, definately. And I appreciate you all letting me vent.<P>I know that I should let all the "cats" out of the bag, but the "little devil" in me says make her squirm. The longer I have him the less she has him.<P>And you're right, I'm not quite ready to let go. I know I could do it and there probably is someone even better for me but I do love him and the person I know he can be.

Dear Singagain,<P>My H also didn't want to let go at first either because he felt so bad about all the promises he made. As stated before, what about the BIG promise he made to me...our marriage vows? I gave him an ultimatum...no further contact or I'm outta here! What this did was show him and my children that I have self-respect and I am strong enough to live without him if he doesn't end it. Does that ever make them do a turn around. <P>You are not doing your kids any good by showing them that you can be used as a doormat until he makes a decision. It could be dragged out forever because he does have his cake and is eating it too. You say you have your cake. You are having it at the high cost of your self-esteem and lots of degradation. What is this teaching your children? They carry on the same way through adult years, by what they were witness to, it's a fact. Your H cannot possibly have the respect for you that you deserve because you are lowering your ethics, morals and integrity by enabling him to carry on with adultry. <P>Please don't use the revenge theory or money as a reason to continue this charade. Those things do not matter at all. You were above the OW from day one of the A because you never broke your marriage vows. She on the other hand has a huge flaw in her character and is a low-life. If divorce comes into the picture, you should fare well financially in a settlement. <P>Your H will look at you with more dignity if you take a stand and tell him you have taken enough guff and are not going to be shoved through the mud any longer, you have re-established your self-respect. He needs to make a choice.<P>

A Question:<P>Is he sleeping with both of you? Your husband is lying, not only to her but you as well, trust me. Affairs are filled with lies and deceit. <P>As my husband so eloquently put it, "I told her what she wanted to hear"<P>Are you content with sharing? If so you may be happy.

I sort of know where you are coming from. I was able to tolerate my H not even coming home, and saying it was for work, for 8 months, because i had the nice home and peaceful suburban existence.<BR>Then he blew it all up by buying a huge overpriced house and hour from my town in the country, subsequently he did not have money for rent, the house was not yet done, i had nowhere to live for over a month (with a four month old and a 2.5 year old). That's when i lost it. I came "home" to the new house for a short time, but he was still seeing her and saying to everyone that i was gone. it was like the twilight zone. i finally got my own apartment and he paid bundles of child support (though we are not divorced).<BR>I would suggest to you that you should look into your rights, just to know what you will be facing if you decide that you can't tolerate this situation anymore. You don't have to act on anything, but knowing that you might get full custody, the house and $4000 a month child support (or whatever) might make you re-evaluate your situation.<BR>I won't tell you what to do, though, because I'm quite sure that i would be happy to remain a doormat for my kids if he had let us live in our neighborhood and had not flown off the hook with his manic "let's buy a mansion in the country for the kids" scheme.<BR>best luck to you,<BR>julie

I feel like I'm in a position the same, yet different, than you. My H is living with the OW. He's been there for 8 weeks. About 3 weeks ago he started coming over more regularly (between 2-5 hrs. a day)when OW is at work and we have been talking and we have been "intimate" on several occassions. OW obviously doesn't know about this but I'm hoping it will bring us closer and he will leave her behind.I think if I gave him an ultimatum at this point he would just stay where he is and I would loose him in the fog. I'm hoping to draw him home more and more. I guess the way I see it, as long as there's progress in my direction, I'm not going to upset anything.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Someday soon she will find out about his lies and I want her to look just as stupid as I did. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm not sure that's possible.<P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die

He's lying to you, He's lying to her,You are lying for him, You are lying to yourself.<BR>WAY too many lies here. You need to wake up, you are in a fog yourself,if you think she will look foolish.<P>You are hostile toward HER? She didn't make vows to you, before GOD. HE DID. Not to say you should care for her but I think your hostility is misdirected. Sure, you love him but he is betraying you, with your permission! He's cheating on everybody!<BR> <BR>You maybe should worry he doesn't ditch BOTH of you and find another OW. I can't even imagine the kind of pain you must be in.<BR>

I think you have a good point - or actually several good points. Non-optimum (to put it mildly) as your situation is, in my opinion, there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WORSE than divorce for the kids. The kids are always (unless there is open warfare) better off with both parents at home. I agree that having to see your kids go off to spend time with the OW is far, far worse than "sharing" your H. One of my biggest regrets is that I ever confronted my H - I think there is a good possibility that he would not have left had I not. He even told me that he left because I didn't want him to keep his second, non-paying (and of course non-existent) job. I don't think you should worry about whether other people think you are foolish for "letting him have his cake and eat it too." It is your life, not theirs. <P>And do not believe it when you hear that you will be fine financially. My H, though certainly not as high paid as a doctor, was earning quite a bit of money when he left, and even before he lost his job, the amount of child support that he had to pay was nowhere near enough to support our six kids. Now we are living just above the poverty level. When he was here, probably 7/8 of his income went to support the kids and me - maybe more, because neither he nor I spent much on ourselves compared to what we spent on the kids. Child support is far, far, less than that.<P>The kids would have been far better off emotionally and financially had he stayed. They just thought he was spending a lot of time at work. They thought he loved them. Now he rarely sees them. I couldn't possibly be worse off with him here than I am now - no matter how badly he treated me, after he left he has treated me far worse. He too might well have been better off, because he would have not have lost the love of two of his kids, the OW wouldn't have been able to keep him away from his kids, and he would not have left a secure job to take one near the OW from which he got laid off. The only person who wouldn't have been better off is the OW.

Dear Singagain,<P>I would like to share a bit of my story. H lived with us 1 month after d/d. After he moved out, he lived and currently lives on his own, even though he can go and live with OW right now. He has been on his own for 3 months. <P>Reality of living on his own, seeing more and more what OW is like in the daylight, seeing his own inabilities, seeing how his son and I are making it well without him and more his making him have 2nd thoughts about leaving his family. Why am I telling you this? Because H & OW both used me as a doormat for the 1st 2 months. Even before I found out (3 months prior) they were using me as a doormat without my knowledge (me paying the bills, working 60+ hours per week, taking care of the house, paying the taxes, caring for his family - in-laws even, etc.). Well H would have let that go on indefinitely. Until I put a stop to it did things start to change. Yes, my H is not as financially stable as others, this is having an impact on his decision. But all that is just a part of his wake up call. Now he is saying that he is leaving OW even if I will not take him back. Hmmm..... Waiting to see about that one. <P>My point is, your H may not be respecting you if he can have what he considers the best of both worlds at your expense and that of your children. Do not underestimate what your children know. Even very young ones know the stress you are going through and they have their own feelings about what daddy is doing to mom. There are other posts where I share what my 6 year old has shared with me and what he even wrote to his dad. <P>You are better than the OW, you are his wife and deserve to be treated with respect. At this time, you are the only one in this relationship that can recognize this. Your H is trying to make you look as bad as he can in order to justify and make the OW look better. How bad are you going to allow yourself to be put down until you stand up for yourself? It depends on how much you can take. <P>For me it took a the strong but much needed words of good friends, family, God and the kind people here on this board. I was told in no uncertain terms that unless I respected myself, H would not respect me. See, he is in the fog and right now he is not able to distinguish between the wife and OW. <P>Example, my H took his OW to one of our favorite spots, Yosemite. I saw the hotel receipt, they signed in as Mr & Mrs. ______, that made me sick. How many other times did they do that? I don't know. To think that another woman tried to pose as me? Oooooh that makes me soooo angry. Remember to H we were both the same. 2 wives? That is illegal in this state. Bigamist!!!! That is what the fog does to these crazy people. <P>Don't stoop to that level of insanity. You, we are better than that. We do not want to be in the fog, we will not be in the fog. Because we can not afford to be in the fog. <P>The point is that I have told H, deserve to be treated better than the OW and will not succumb to his wishes, until he can do so. Now he is talking about coming home. Will he actually do it? Not sure. If he does, we have a lot to work on. If he does not, we (our family) will survive and go on with our lives. You see, we will make it because we respect ourselves. <P>Please treat yourself with respect. You deserve it. <P>L.<p>[This message has been edited by Orchid (edited April 10, 2001).]

Do not overestimate what children know. My kids, including my teenagers, were completely blindsided when my H suddenly moved out. <P>Personally, "self-respect" (aka foolish pride) is way down on my lists of things I need or want, far below keeping a roof over my kids heads and keeping them happy and having them never have realized that their father isn't really capable of loving them. <P>NOTHING IS WORSE THAN DIVORCE.

Hi Sing,<P> I am married to a Dr. and I also have 4kids....get yourself to an attorney and find out what your rights are.Are you knowledgeable about your financial affairs? Get your ducks in a row, take some control.<BR> <BR> I was like you, terrified to rock the boat and hoped my H would come out of it. The OW was single and had nothing to lose....I'm sure she saw the dollar signs. NOT until I went to Plan B did my H come around...he would've continued on with both FOREVER....<P> Taking a stand and making plans to be on my own brought my H to reality and I was prepared to do it on my own.<BR> <BR> I'm sorry, I disagree with Nellie, I think degrading oneself and losing all self respect is worse than divorce. Ok, so I'm not D but I would go to a D if I had to.I also have friends who choose D over staying in an intolerable situation and they are much happier. LU<p>[This message has been edited by Lu (edited April 11, 2001).]

Sorry,Nellie, I have to disagree,too.<P>I am the product of 3 divorces,my mother was a wild one. Never had any relationship with my real father. I had a grandfather and an uncle who took his place. Myself ,my brother and my sister bonded closely. My mother was NOT there for us at all, so as the oldest I took over that role. My gradparente were a bif part of our lives and THEY were all about us kids. Was it wonderful? Not at the time but her being married to people that treated her like crap was worse. When she was unhappy, life was sheer H**L.<P>We are all strong,have good jobs,and much life experience. Smart, common sense. We maybe would have better had she stayed married to ione of them...maybe. But we heard the fights, saw the crying,took the brunt of the bad moods. Even when they tried to hide it...it was THERE. And it was horrible. Those times damaged us more than when we were alone. <P>She was not a good mother, as I am sure you are. But, we still survived in tact. She loved us in her way and our grandparents loved us totally. If someone loves the kids and does the best to make them feel loved and not responsible, they will be OK. Maybe not like they would have been with two parents but looking back,I like myself and that experience helped make me into a person who is a real good person. Maybe I would have been different if I had the benefit of an Ozzie and Harriet upbringing. <P>My H had two parents who loved him...were happily married 38 years before my FIL passed away. My H has low self esteem and lots of other stuff from his idyllic upbringing. ANDhe's the one who cheated.Not to say I don't have my own defects and defieciencies but I had the strength to deal with most of the childhood stuff.. He's just now at 52yrs old, dealing with the stuff.<P>So, not to say divorce doesn't suck but sometimes it's not the destroyer people think it is. AND divorce was much better than watching our mother suffer<BR>. <BR>I AM NOT ADVOCATING DIVORCE. Can only speak from my own position. If you are not unhappy and working on your M, STAY MARRIED but your kids know when you are in pain and it hutrs them.<p>[This message has been edited by Wounded2673 (edited April 11, 2001).]

Hey everyone,<P>I appreciate all your input. No I don't like sharing him and yes maybe I am in as much of a fog as he is. I don't know if I want to leave or stay. Just like him, huh. <P>Anyway I agree with Nellie. Nothing could be harder than divorce. I remember going through that depression stage, I lost 35 pounds and let "Nick Jr." raise my little girl while I laid on the couch in tears. <P>Well I'm past that point. I'm strong enough to be the one who my children rely on and I'm strong enough to wait out whatever happens. And you'd be surprised at my self-esteem. I lost 35 pounds, look better than I ever have, bought a new cadillac that I look awesome in and I'm feeling pretty good. Oh yeah, I went back to work for a decent amount of money for an brilliant attorney. And that is making my husband sweat. Now he worries that I look so good and am so desirable that I may find someone else, someone better.<P>So you see, things aren't so bad. But they could be bad if I divorce him.

Well it sounds like you have made up your mind. As long as your happy (and I'm sure your husband is) I'd say, why change a thing?

I agree that D is terrible! You are stronger than I am, though. I couldn't tolerate what your H is doing. I don't think that 2 wrongs make a right, either. The OW is way wrong for what she is doing, but you do not know what your H is telling her. For all you know he could be telling her what a terrible person you are and he has to stay in your home for your children's sake. Wouldn't it be better for you and the OW to confront him in his lies?<P>As far as you worrying about her being with your children on the weekend (if the D comes), it won't happen. I am pretty sure that with all that has happened you could get about any judge to say that when the children visit him, she cannot be there or visitation is off. <P>Good luck. I am sorry for your pain. God bless.<BR>Window