Hi girls and boys!<P>I agree and disagree! Agree that it seems many new people do not heed the advice to read the MB material (it would answer most of the questions, along with the read-only posts) AND agree that there aren't enough "MB veterans" to go around!<P>I personally don't like comments like "this is an open forum and I can say anything I want" and the "PC police" crack. And don't get me started on all the name-calling and insensitive comments.<P>But I don't agree that dividing into separate forums has been bad. When I joined this forum in October of 1999, there might have been 100 active posters per day and I "knew" them all. That number has grown dramatically and would be unmanageable the old way. Plus, some days I really can't personally deal with the pain of just finding out or the divorcing posts. Many months ago Steve Harley suggested another forum just for vents. I didn't have much of an opinion then, but I would certainly favor it now, especially after NB's thread about fat comments!<P>When I first came to this site, there were just a few newbies and lots of veterans to comfort and advise us. Now that has reversed, and there just aren't enough old-timers to go around. So often people who are smack in the middle of the worst experience in their live are trying to give advice to others in the same horrible place. We would probably all be better off if we really thought about what we have written before we hit that submit button!<P>I don't know what the solution is, but I hope there is a self-correction very soon. There are so many people here that need the kind of care and support that I got when I really needed it, and many of them aren't really getting the help they need. Maybe someone "older and wiser" (in terms of MB) can offer some helpful suggestions.<P>Peppermint

Hi <B>Buffy, MAEZY,</B> and sweet <B>Peppermint</B>,<P>Well, my headache is still hanging in there and I feel like crap, but here I am anyhow!! Lord Help Me!!<P>Thank you for the support... <P>You know what I liked about all being on one board? We all got all sides/progression/success stories that were desperately needed to understand. At one point, I think someone even suggested all OM/OW should have their own board -- it hurt too much to read as a BS. All I know is that I found VERY VALUABLE info from people I wouldn't have read otherwise, because I was new and hungry for love and support. I made "friends" with the least-likely people, like Tired Lady, who "hated" OW, but allowed me into her life. It was absolutely wonderful -- truly. I guess part of that may be because I have the dubious honor of being one of those who's been on both sides, having been betrayed by my ex-H a handful of times. I don't know... I just miss those days...<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

Hello all:<BR>Just a brief reply. I am grateful for all of the replies to my posts as well as the insights I have gained from reading here for hours on end. It has been helpful to me as newbie reading from those currently in my situation (Dday 8weeks ago) as well as those well into the MB principles like SKM. If it were not for this site, I would have done something foolish like give up on my marriage when hubby broke my heart. Thanks to all of you, I am in for the duration.

Well, <B>Sheryl</B>, you always seem to start the "posers", don't you??<P>You know I agree with your sentiments as I interjected these same thoughts on one of your D/D threads.<P>Here are some of my observations...<P>There are too many "newbies" who are forced to get wise and sage advice from other "newbies", especially very loud and opinionated ones. Over the past few months, I have seen more "throw the bum out" advice than ever before. I've also seen the "I've been in Plan A now for a week and I don't know if I can do it anymore" which is sometimes replied to with the "toss" comment, or urgings to go to Plan B.<P>There are some old-timers who are still here on a regular basis and others that pop in from time to time. One thing that I have noticed is that those who post an announcement of their leaving are usually back relatively soon(Sorry Sheryl, you too). The ones who have seemingly left for good, left quietly. They just slowly disappeared. Where are <B>SDS, RollMeAway, DuncanMac, suse</B> etc.(actually, I think suse was here not too long ago? They didn't really announce intentions to leave, they just drifted away as their lives moved on. Boy, just mentioning those names makes me miss them more.<P>The board has changed, but I don't think the splitting of forums really had a lot to do with it. The volume of messages was just getting tremendous. I can remember times when, on the old GQ I, just listing the last two days could be five or six screens. <P>There are people who don't feel their situation allows them to post in GQ. I am thankful there are other forums where they feel more at home. It's better than dropping off permamently. And you know, it's not that hard to bookmark a few different forums and pop in. I have GQ II, D/D, recovery and EN bookmarked and hit them all each time I am here.<P>I think that in some ways, these forums have come to reflect more and more our society in general. Got a problem? Well, just use the 60 second fix!! Few people have patience any more. Can't fix the marriage in a week? Then dump it and start a new one.<P>As an example, I replied to a post a while back because the BS was going thru a phase with the WS that was exactly what I went thru. I felt the beginnings of a "kinship" and wanted that person to know what they were going thru was not totally unique. The person didn't seem to want to hear from me, I am assuming since I am now 2yrs and 2days post-Dday and not totally recovered. Whereas the other replies were a lot of "quick fixes" and "you shouldn't take that".<P>As for KalGrl's comment about the "PC Police", I agree with her totally. I don't know how many times I have read replies to posts where the poster is complaining that the thread is "inappropriate". In fact, on the D/D board, one regular poster actually convinced the moderator to step in and close the thread because he was offended by the content. He didn't have to read it, but did anyway and then forced his value set on everyone. Made me sick!!! I've also noticed that he dropped from sight very shortly thereafter and hasn't been seen in a long time.<P>Everyone now seems to apologize for when they initiate what they call "off-topic" threads. We are here to support each other and nothing is "off-topic". I still remember the "Warrior Princesses" thread where we came up with a TV show, storyline and characters(from the board). Sure it was off-topic, but it did a lot to ease my mind from the troubles I was dealing with. And it also made me feel closer to a lot of people here.<P>Anyway, my two cents for now...<P>--DeWayne--

Thanks for dropping by, <B>BreakingSlowly</B>, <P>I'm happy that you have found some kind words of wisdom here on MB.<P>Well, <B>DeWayne</B>,<P>You do, as always, bring up some very good points!!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Originally posted by Heartpain:<BR>Well, </B><B>Sheryl</B>, <B>you always seem to start the "posers", don't you??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>I guess that's me... and probably not always a very good me... I have waaaay too much time on my hands lately! <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>You know I agree with your sentiments as I interjected these same thoughts on one of your D/D threads.<P>Here are some of my observations...<P>There are too many "newbies" who are forced to get wise and sage advice from other "newbies", especially very loud and opinionated ones. Over the past few months, I have seen more "throw the bum out" advice than ever before. I've also seen the "I've been in Plan A now for a week and I don't know if I can do it anymore" which is sometimes replied to with the "toss" comment, or urgings to go to Plan B.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>This is <B>EXACTLY</B> what I am talking about!!!!!!!!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>There are some old-timers who are still here on a regular basis and others that pop in from time to time. One thing that I have noticed is that those who post an announcement of their leaving are usually back relatively soon(Sorry Sheryl, you too). The ones who have seemingly left for good, left quietly. They just slowly disappeared. Where are [b]SDS, RollMeAway, DuncanMac, suse</B><B> etc.(actually, I think suse was here not too long ago? They didn't really announce intentions to leave, they just drifted away as their lives moved on. Boy, just mentioning those names makes me miss them more.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>Oh yeah, I realize this... and how well I realize that I keep coming back despite my "goodbyes" -- Four months is tops for staying away from here since August 1999!! <P>During that four months, I didn't have access as home, but did get to a computer about every other week... sometimes I'd lurk a bit (so I did happen to see the thread that was locked per someones "pc police-ing").<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>As an example, I replied to a post a while back because the BS was going thru a phase with the WS that was exactly what I went thru. I felt the beginnings of a "kinship" and wanted that person to know what they were going thru was not totally unique. The person didn't seem to want to hear from me, I am assuming since I am now 2yrs and 2days post-Dday and not totally recovered. Whereas the other replies were a lot of "quick fixes" and "you shouldn't take that".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>Yes, how well I understand this. In fact, there is a thread on D/D that really upset me -- I've SO BEEN where this woman is -- and she saw me as slamming her when I tell her that she's throwing it all away too fast, that she'll regret it -- and I speak from experience -- regrets suck.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>As for KalGrl's comment about the "PC Police", I agree with her totally. I don't know how many times I have read replies to posts where the poster is complaining that the thread is "inappropriate". In fact, on the D/D board, one regular poster actually convinced the moderator to step in and close the thread because he was offended by the content. He didn't have to read it, but did anyway and then forced his value set on everyone. Made me sick!!! I've also noticed that he dropped from sight very shortly thereafter and hasn't been seen in a long time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>Seriously, DeWayne, I thought she was talking about the "fat" thread -- me and my ego, ya know. That's why I asked if she meant me. This situation that you mention was disguisting.<P>Take care, <B>DeWayne</B>, and platonic-hugs atcha!!<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck<BR><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited April 12, 2001).]

Arriving in 8/00, I'm somewhere between newcomer and oldtimer. I have received amazing encouragement from HGB, Peppermint, Lostva, SKM, Marie, HD, and many other "oldtimers." But there are some newbies who sometimes seem ahead of me in this process. I believe they have done their MB homework and are truly helpful. I almost hate to mention names for fear of leaving someone out, but Bill Uphill and oswald in particular amaze me with the strength they have this early in their recovery. They continually inspire and encourage me. Thanks to you ALL.<P>------------------<BR>"Love always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres." 1 Corinthians 13:7

I'm an old-timer 12/98, well over 2000 posts, probably nearing 3000 as some were lost in the great crash of spring 99, I remember it well... <P>I never really go away, just get quiet or hop around on boards. Sometimes I am sheerly overwhelmed by the number of new people.<P>You know what bugs me? And until someone brought it to my attention as a newbie, I was guilty of it myself, but we old-timers do it automatically. <P>*REPLY to the people who post on your thread.*<P>It doesn't matter if the thread-originator agrees, doesn't agree, developes a sudden inexplicable hatred of the reply-poster , or intends to model their life after the replier . If someone replies on a thread, they have invested thought and time in that situation. Even if the replier just offers a hug, a , or "see a counselor, please!"<P>I get easily frustrated if I post to someone and they come back with "Anybody else?" and never address the issues I've raised through hard experience.<P>Since like you Sheryl, I have been both WS & BS...I sometimes feel called to reply on some difficult threads. And perhaps when the poster is a WS, or BS turning WS, they are too foggy to understand what I'm saying.<P>It's easy to agree with someone who thinks like you do, the challenge is "think outside the box" and realize you may be completely off course. MB principles didn't come easily to me, still don't at times (oh those LBs), but they contain a truth that I appreciate.<P>Lor

Thank you new_beginning. When I came to MB last year, all I heard was plan A. Yes I read SAA and I got great encouragement. Now I know it's been a while since I was on last year, but I signed in at my new place of employment under a new name and all I've heard this week is "dump him" and H is no good, "get on with my life".<P>Last year I got encouragement, this time I leave this board feeling beaten and that what I'm trying to do is meaningless.<P>So thanks for the encouragement. Keep it coming.

Hey, old-timers! <P>BTW, Mitzi, I agree - IMHO you are 100% a success!! Whodat - you don't have to be a BS to know your stuff and I've always felt you were amazing. D&C, HBC, Heartache, Peppermint - so good to see all of you here.<P><BR>Another long-winded voice popping up here. (Samantha - I'm probably the ONLY person that is more long-winded than you, 'cept maybe Heartpain! ) Good job, Sheryl, for bringing this up. It's been a telephone and email topic for a long time for a number of people I know. In fact, I recently told someone that I KNEW a couple in trouble right now and though, a year ago, I would hammered away at them until they came here, now I don't. With their personalities and the tone of the board these days, I worry MORE about their coming here. I DID recommend the site to them a while back, I just didn't rave on and on like I normally would have before.<P>I came back frequently once we were past some of the most difficult parts of recovery. For the most part it was to "give back". The people on this site saved my life - literally - and I thought the best way to repay that was to be here for someone else. I was busy, so I wasn't here 8 hours a day (or night as the case usually was ) like before, but I checked in every day. I still lurk once or twice a week, looking for old friends or for a post someone has emailed me about. I still take every opportunity I can to email people who look me up and have found some wonderful friends that way.<P>But I don't post much. Even when I think I can help. It's not b/c folks disagree with me - heck, that's what I LOVE most abuot this board and how I really learned and grew so much (still doing a bit of that!). <P><BR>I have such wonderful heroes...Kat1, ES and Hopeful (yes the two of you have done wonders), you, my dear Sheryl (I still have the tattered remains of one particularly inspiring post), DuncanMac and Suse, Lonestar and Petunia, SHA, K, Bozo's Deb was the first person to answer my very first thread. So many others, Sheba, Wassi, FHL, heavens, I couldn't begin to name all those who had a profound effect on my life. I miss the wise advice I was given here. I miss the comfort and the kick in the seat that I generally deserved. I miss the HUMOR! Ever notice how a serious post, after all the advice was given and the venting done, could turn absolutely outrageous! It was wonderful! Sure, this is serious stuff - life-shattering actually, but hey, laughing about it is what got me through many a long lonely night. Thanks to my heroes.<P>I found friends here that I will keep for a lifetime. Those true blue friends who will be honest with me when they know I don't want to hear what they have to say, who will let me cry on their shoulder and then ask me how long I plan to wallow! Who, when I brag a bit about how I handled a particularly touchy situation will say "Good Girl!" followed immediately by "Now, how can you do better next time?" I do love you all. Because of the people on this board, I'm a much better person and I learned to recognize that I could always do and be better. I like that.<P>Oh, it's shut up time for me again, huh? Oh, well, I do hope that some of the wise and wonderful that I so admire will pop up here and there - I see many of them from time to time. A lot of them here on this thread. I would like the newbies to profit from their wisdom as I did. I know that my own marriage would not be restored and recovery not gone so well had I not had their experience to guide me. This whole experience is unlike any other and the pain is unimaginable. But it does have another side and we can come out better in the end, whether or not our marriages remain in tact. <P>Love to you (and all other old and new friends)<P>Lori<p>[This message has been edited by lostva (edited April 12, 2001).]

Lor - Good point! I've noticed that too. So many times responses are ignored and a new thread started by the same poster and you can't be sure they even read the first one or just wanted you to go away. Guess it's our "oldie's etiqette", huh? LOL<P>Lori

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Samantha - I'm probably the ONLY person that is more long-winded than you, 'cept maybe Heartpain!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL. Lori... it’s funny you should say that, because when I saw there was a post from you, my first thought was, “Maybe I should go get a fresh cup of coffee before I start this.” <P>Second thought after reading that line was, “you want long winded... just wait until Sheba gets a hold of this thread!” <P><P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die

Oh, WhoDat, I'm rolling on the floor!!! <P>Me? Longwinded? At least you did allow someone else was too! I don't even give myself THAT much credit!!<P>Still laughing....<P>Lori

I have this great response to you guys... and I can't get it to post... I even mention Sheba, WhoDat!!!!<P>I'll keep trying!!!<P>**edit, edit**<P>So, it was toooooo long or something - can you believe it? So, I broke it up... sorry for the kazillion postings by me. Too much of Sheryl is NOT a good thing!! haha <BR><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited April 12, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Persevering:<BR><B>Arriving in 8/00, I'm somewhere between newcomer and oldtimer. I have received amazing encouragement from HGB, Peppermint, Lostva, SKM, Marie, HD, and many other "oldtimers." But there are some newbies who sometimes seem ahead of me in this process. I believe they have done their MB homework and are truly helpful. I almost hate to mention names for fear of leaving someone out, but Bill Uphill and oswald in particular amaze me with the strength they have this early in their recovery. They continually inspire and encourage me. Thanks to you ALL.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><B>Persevering</B>,<P>I am so very happy you've found what you were looking for here ~ even among the "newbies"~<P>My point was certainly NOT to say there are not **some** wonderfully gifted people who came on, did their homework, did the WORK of working on their marriages, and shared as they went. I know there are good, solid people here who are not "old-timers".<BR><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

Ah, my dear <B>Lor</B>,<P>The <B>GREAT CRASH OF SPRING 99</B>, eh? You crack me up!! Yes, I too remember it well... but was it spring? I thought it was Fall!! We lost EVERYthing!!!!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>You know what bugs me? And until someone brought it to my attention as a newbie, I was guilty of it myself, but we old-timers do it automatically. <P>*REPLY to the people who post on your thread.*<P>It doesn't matter if the thread-originator agrees, doesn't agree, developes a sudden inexplicable hatred of the reply-poster , or intends to model their life after the replier. If someone replies on a thread, they have invested thought and time in that situation. Even if the replier just offers a hug, a , or "see a counselor, please!"<P>I get easily frustrated if I post to someone and they come back with "Anybody else?" and never address the issues I've raised through hard experience.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>Yes, YES, and MORE YES'S!! Here's how "balsy" I am (sorry for the visual ) I have gone back and said to the original poster, "Hey, I noticed you didn't mention me"... the last time I said it, was I humbled by the fact that she had simply not noticed my post -- same time posting thing. Kinda Embarrassing, doncha know.<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by singagain:<BR><B>Thank you new_beginning. When I came to MB last year, all I heard was plan A. Yes I read SAA and I got great encouragement. Now I know it's been a while since I was on last year, but I signed in at my new place of employment under a new name and all I've heard this week is "dump him" and H is no good, "get on with my life".<P>Last year I got encouragement, this time I leave this board feeling beaten and that what I'm trying to do is meaningless.<P>So thanks for the encouragement. Keep it coming.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hi there, <B>singagain</B><P>You are SUCH A SWEETIE!! Thanks for the kind words! <P><BR><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

It is my HERO, <B>lostva</B>,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Another long-winded voice popping up here. (Samantha - I'm probably the ONLY person that is more long-winded than you, 'cept maybe Heartpain! ) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>Oh wait... NOBODY... NO<B>BODY</B> can hold a candle to <B>Sheba</B> for long posts!!! Yeah, we try, but we ALL fall short of the Princess Warrior!!!!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Good job, Sheryl, for bringing this up. It's been a telephone and email topic for a long time for a number of<BR>people I know.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You know what? I was honestly HORRIFIED at some of the respoonses I was reading, that's all. <P>Hey, I'm not one to spout off about *my* success at recovering my marriage - since I didn't - but let me tell you this: David and I treat each other with a kind of respect that was learned through the concepts here, even if we couldn't repair our marriage. I like to think that I perpetuated that by using Plan A strategies (albeit, a bit too late to save the marriage) -- even when he wouldn't/couldn't. Now, we talk civily, not as "friends" but "friendly" and we treat each other with dignity.<P>Furthermore (this sounds like a speech ~ I crack me up! ), although I won't discuss at length my new relationship, I can say that we use the principles found here as well. I am HOPING (praying, begging God to help me) not to make the same mistakes this time around. I meant business when I married last time (for 20 years) and I intend to make the next marriage last for the rest of our lives.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I miss the HUMOR! Ever notice how a serious post, after all the advice was given and the venting done, could turn absolutely outrageous! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>This is when the salmon-whip recipe came up!!!! Gee whiz, it SURE WAS fun!!!! <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Oh, it's shut up time for me again, huh? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>As far as I'm concerned, it's NEVER shut up time for you!!!!!<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck<BR><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited April 12, 2001).]

Lostva/Lori<BR>I'm appalled someone told you your situation was too easy. Even though I was here when you arrived and you entered recovery months before I did, I would never consider your situation easy. Your recovery gave me so much hope, because it did seem during the separation such a longshot, Robert so smitten with PT. Like my 7+ separations...who gets through that?<P>When I read your post above, the line said by Anthony Hopkins in "Legends of the Fall" came to mind. "Screw 'em." But then, I long ago accepted I was not the "nice" MB Lori.

OK, <B>Lori</B> - Are you trying to say that my postings are not brief, succinct, short, to the point, short and snappy, pithy, laconic, economical, condensed, direct, relevant, direct, breviloquent, compendiary, compendious, close, compact, lean, precise, compact, clear-cut, crisp, incisive and short and sweet???<P><B>Lor -</B> You are certainly right about <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>*REPLY to the people who post on your thread.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>One trick that I learned from Sheryl(NB) was to <B>bold</B> each person's name as I responded. It helps to keep track of who I have responded to and who I haven't.<P>--DeWayne--

DeWayne - uhhhhh....yeah! <P>Lor and Sheryl - thank you, you're both sweet, but I've edited my post. That should not have been included in this thread and I realized it when I read your replies (OK, so sometimes I'm a little slowwwwwwwww....)<P>Luv ya!<P>Lori