See, this is what MarriageBuilders is ALL about. If the newbies can learn anything, it’s that Dr Harley NEVER promises following his principles will save your marriage. Only that you can save yourself and be happy. Often that DOES happen with the spouse. If so... so much the better. But if not... look at how lucky the NEXT person to come along is going to be! They will have someone who knows how to make a relationship work, and even better yet... knows how to make THEMSELVES happy and work WITH their new partner to have a relationship most can only dream of.<P>Not “throwing the bum out,” not Plan A’ing for a week and then giving up, but busting your butt to better yourself, and hopefully, a better relationship will follow. If not with your spouse, then it happens. But if you’ve done the work, if you’ve done all you can to better yourself by avoiding the LoveBusters and meeting the Emotional Needs of the person most important to you, you WILL come out the other end happier, and a better person.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die

<B>Hi everyone and I mean everyone! Wow, nice to see you all</B><P>This has practically turned into a party in and of itself. I am always a day late and a dollar short. I am still at work (sigh ) so I can't write much. Even though I have been here alone for a couple of hours now at least. I have to finish up my work and go watch my grandbaby while her parents go away for a romantic weekend. <P>Two days ago I gave my DIL a copy of "His Needs, Her Needs" because she was pretty upset by finding some suspicious e-mails on their computer? (I know, I know! If I catch my son, I'll kill him! Grrrr) It seems though she must have gotten to part of meeting one of my sons's Needs! So, I am happy they are off for some romance.<P>I will digress on the longest winded and longest poster here. I am still not sure about that, but if I am not, whew! Great...load of my mind. <B>Sheba & Dylan</B> I can't wait to see who is the reining Queen. We already know <B>Lori</B> is the Queen of plan A. <P>I wanted to only add that along with Lor's pet peeve about people not acknowledging people responding to them, I have one. That is no paragraphs. Now I am certainly not an English major and wouldn't know how to diagram a sentence if my life depended on it. My spelling leaves tons to be desired as well. Even I, with my limited knowledge can group the current thought I am having and hit the enter key twice. Even if the extremely frantic moments when your heart is pounding while your thoughts are going from one thing to another, please hit that enter key twice so that it starts a new paragraph. What I am trying to say (I told you I am grammatically challenged! ) is that at least for me, when I see a long posting that has no paragraphs, well, my whole brain goes dizzy. I can't concentrate or read what is there. Eventually after a few tries I move on to someone’s post that does have paragraphs. Sorry but you know how that <B>PSABD</B> (post spousal affair brain damage) goes?! I just can't handle all the words and thoughts jumbled up together. <P>I am very sorry if I offended anybody by saying this, as it sure isn't my intention. I just think that I can't be so weird that there aren't others who feel or react the same way I do? So in advance forgive me to those I may have offended.<P>Hugs all, back to putting my nose to the grindstone.<P>Much love to all,<P><BR>------------------<BR><B>Pray and praise the Lord, let Him handle it. All things are possible with God. Even healing our marriages. <P>Samantha</B><p>[This message has been edited by it's me Samantha (edited April 12, 2001).]

Just an "old timer" here (mostly lurker now)....wishing to say HELLO to all the other "old timers" that have popped into this thread! Howdy!!!

OK, guys, while we are reminiscing......remember how we used to light candles for each other and had prayer chains going???? I gotta tell you, I have burned a zillion candles to remind me of different people in need here at MB.<P>To those who post regularly now, please read all these posts from the "oldtimers" in the spirit in which they are meant. Most would acknowledge that the purpose of this site is to help others deal with surviving an affair - whether BS or WS. Both are welcome here. People come here loking for help. It is important to encourage people who want to save their marriages. When and if the time comes for someone to throw the towel in, they will know in their hearts. The "job" of the poster, IMHO, is to be supportive, to be a voice of reason and to be the "naysayer" sometimes, too. The value is in getting several opinions and then sifting through the various opinions to help you decide what works best in your own situation. Although each situation is unique, there is almost always somebody else who has or is experiencing the same thing. <P>I believe that the best thing is for someone to give eveything they have towards marital reconciliation. Even if things don't end up working out, at least you know in your heart that you did your best and will have no regrets on that end. I've seen several posts here lately where the posters have regretted moving too fast and ended up divorced. I think that just adds another difficult element to recovery that may perhaps have been avoided.<P>Everybody here has been hurt in one way or another. If we weren't looking for support and ideas, we wouldn't still be coming here. There is no pat answer to post-affair recovery. But, please do keep encouraging the spirit and the principles of the Harleys. I have seen them work for so many people here in terms of marital recovery. And, I have seen them work for so many here in terms of personal recovery, even some of those whose marriages have ended.<P>One final thought - since K isn't here - do encourage others to counsel with the Harleys! It brings a whole new dimension to living these principles!<P>Love to all, Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

An MB oldtimers' reunion. Cool! <P>Hi everybody! I've been here for a year, can I join in?<P>So weird. I usually "live" in "In Recovery" and occasionally in "Emotional Needs", rarely come to "GEII" but for some reason popped in...<P>If I could get paid, I'd "talk" to people, spouting off MB principles and give encouragement as my full time job. I'd joyously work double shifts! <P>Hey, Moderator! Where can I get an application? That would be my dream job!<P>How can we help correct what's happening? Hmmm. Personally, I'd wish people would have to read a principle or Harley message once a day before being allowed to enter the forum. <P>Maybe have ticker tape messages of same running across the top of the screen...<P>Possibly having easier access to related articles <I>on the same page as the forum</I>...<P>I'd like to see the moderators jump in with a topic once a day or so that we could all chime in on and explain our related experiences. Maybe that would cut down on all the duplicated postings by the various newbies--give more consistency and easier access to the answers they seek...<P>Just brainstorming. <P> <BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WhoDat:<BR><B>See, this is what MarriageBuilders is ALL about. If the newbies can learn anything, it’s that Dr Harley NEVER promises following his principles will save your marriage. Only that you can save yourself and be happy. Often that DOES happen with the spouse. If so... so much the better. But if not... look at how lucky the NEXT person to come along is going to be! They will have someone who knows how to make a relationship work, and even better yet... knows how to make THEMSELVES happy and work WITH their new partner to have a relationship most can only dream of.<P>Not “throwing the bum out,” not Plan A’ing for a week and then giving up, but busting your butt to better yourself, and hopefully, a better relationship will follow. If not with your spouse, then it happens. But if you’ve done the work, if you’ve done all you can to better yourself by avoiding the LoveBusters and meeting the Emotional Needs of the person most important to you, you WILL come out the other end happier, and a better person.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is why I've always respected you so much, WhoDat!! You always tell it like it is -- and also have the capacity to see the good in people.<P>Thanks for the lovely message...<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by it's me Samantha:<BR><B>Hi everyone and I mean everyone! Wow, nice to see you all</B><P>This has practically turned into a party in and of itself. I am always a day late and a dollar short. I am still at work (sigh ) so I can't write much. Even though I have been here alone for a couple of hours now at least. I have to finish up my work and go watch my grandbaby while her parents go away for a romantic weekend. <P>Two days ago I gave my DIL a copy of "His Needs, Her Needs" because she was pretty upset by finding some suspicious e-mails on their computer? (I know, I know! If I catch my son, I'll kill him! Grrrr) It seems though she must have gotten to part of meeting one of my sons's Needs! So, I am happy they are off for some romance.<P>I will digress on the longest winded and longest poster here. I am still not sure about that, but if I am not, whew! Great...load of my mind. <B>Sheba & Dylan</B> I can't wait to see who is the reining Queen. We already know <B>Lori</B> is the Queen of plan A. <P>I wanted to only add that along with Lor's pet peeve about people not acknowledging people responding to them, I have one. That is no paragraphs. Now I am certainly not an English major and wouldn't know how to diagram a sentence if my life depended on it. My spelling leaves tons to be desired as well. Even I, with my limited knowledge can group the current thought I am having and hit the enter key twice. Even if the extremely frantic moments when your heart is pounding while your thoughts are going from one thing to another, please hit that enter key twice so that it starts a new paragraph. What I am trying to say (I told you I am grammatically challenged! ) is that at least for me, when I see a long posting that has no paragraphs, well, my whole brain goes dizzy. I can't concentrate or read what is there. Eventually after a few tries I move on to someone’s post that does have paragraphs. Sorry but you know how that <B>PSABD</B> (post spousal affair brain damage) goes?! I just can't handle all the words and thoughts jumbled up together. <P>I am very sorry if I offended anybody by saying this, as it sure isn't my intention. I just think that I can't be so weird that there aren't others who feel or react the same way I do? So in advance forgive me to those I may have offended.<P>Hugs all, back to putting my nose to the grindstone.<P>Much love to all,<P><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hey, I agree about the paragraphs, actually. But then again, did you ever read anything my poor ex wrote? Poor guy had no grammatical expertise... some people are like that, writing is not their strong suit... they're stream-of-consiousness writers! <P>I guess we'll gently tell folks to pa-lease use paragraphs, eh??<P>Hugs to you!!<P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Survivor [aka_NoTrust]:<BR>[B]Just an "old timer" here (mostly lurker now)....wishing to say HELLO to all the other "old timers" that have popped into this thread! <P>Hi, Hi, Hi to you!!!<P>I know, it's neat to see everyone. But I did call them, didn't I???<P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Roll Me Away:<BR><B>OK, guys, while we are reminiscing......remember how we used to light candles for each other and had prayer chains going???? I gotta tell you, I have burned a zillion candles to remind me of different people in need here at MB.<P>To those who post regularly now, please read all these posts from the "oldtimers" in the spirit in which they are meant. Most would acknowledge that the purpose of this site is to help others deal with surviving an affair - whether BS or WS. Both are welcome here. People come here loking for help. It is important to encourage people who want to save their marriages. When and if the time comes for someone to throw the towel in, they will know in their hearts. The "job" of the poster, IMHO, is to be supportive, to be a voice of reason and to be the "naysayer" sometimes, too. The value is in getting several opinions and then sifting through the various opinions to help you decide what works best in your own situation. Although each situation is unique, there is almost always somebody else who has or is experiencing the same thing. <P>I believe that the best thing is for someone to give eveything they have towards marital reconciliation. Even if things don't end up working out, at least you know in your heart that you did your best and will have no regrets on that end. I've seen several posts here lately where the posters have regretted moving too fast and ended up divorced. I think that just adds another difficult element to recovery that may perhaps have been avoided.<P>Everybody here has been hurt in one way or another. If we weren't looking for support and ideas, we wouldn't still be coming here. There is no pat answer to post-affair recovery. But, please do keep encouraging the spirit and the principles of the Harleys. I have seen them work for so many people here in terms of marital recovery. And, I have seen them work for so many here in terms of personal recovery, even some of those whose marriages have ended.<P>One final thought - since K isn't here - do encourage others to counsel with the Harleys! It brings a whole new dimension to living these principles!<P>Love to all, Desiree<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Oh yeah, the candles... it was beautiful!! It's so very nice to see you, Desiree. You sound wonderful!!<P>K is around on occasion. I guess he's just working on his own marriage and not hanging around here so much. How dare he!!??<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by new_beginning:<BR><B> eh??<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>ROTFLMAO..........snort!!.......<P><BR>you're such a canadian now......<P>eh??!?<P><BR>LOL<BR>LOL<P><BR>Dylan

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Leilana:<BR><B>An MB oldtimers' reunion. Cool! <P>Hi everybody! I've been here for a year, can I join in?<P>So weird. I usually "live" in "In Recovery" and occasionally in "Emotional Needs", rarely come to "GEII" but for some reason popped in...<P>If I could get paid, I'd "talk" to people, spouting off MB principles and give encouragement as my full time job. I'd joyously work double shifts! <P>Hey, Moderator! Where can I get an application? That would be my dream job!<P>How can we help correct what's happening? Hmmm. Personally, I'd wish people would have to read a principle or Harley message once a day before being allowed to enter the forum. <P>Maybe have ticker tape messages of same running across the top of the screen...<P>Possibly having easier access to related articles <I>on the same page as the forum</I>...<P>I'd like to see the moderators jump in with a topic once a day or so that we could all chime in on and explain our related experiences. Maybe that would cut down on all the duplicated postings by the various newbies--give more consistency and easier access to the answers they seek...<P>Just brainstorming. <P> <BR> </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hi!! Of course you may join in!! <P><BR>I love the ticker tape idea!! Also, the moderators jumping in with a "topic of the day" would be neato!! Oh heck, I like the idea of having to read a concept a day too... gosh, what GREAT ideas!!<P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by soulloss:<BR><B> <BR>ROTFLMAO..........snort!!.......<P><BR>you're such a canadian now......<P>eh??!?<P><BR>LOL<BR>LOL<P><BR>Dylan</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Did I tell you today what a BRAT you are?? I love you, Dylan!!!!!!! <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

I'm so sorry that I couldn't put all the responses together... I just added FIVE replies... I hate that!!<P>Where's <B>Sheba</B>? Where's this monster post she's *suppose* to be writing? Humph!! Maybe she defaulted to <B>Dylan</B> and got afraid?? She couldn't possibly compete??? tee hee and <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

I LOVE YOU TOO SHERYL!!!!!!<P>that is another thing to impress upon the newbies....<P>Some of the best and closest friendships are made right here..NEVER let ANYONE tell you that this is JUST a message board....<P>I CANNOT imagine my life without some of these people in it....they have SAVED my life and sanity more times than I can recall....<P>((((((((((((((((((group hug)))))))))))))))))<P>aaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.........

Dang NB.....give me some time would ya?<P>Already spent 3 hours with MB people on the phone and now have to clear my head to make room for this.<P>When I have completed my preparation - printing out of this WHOLE thread..reading it and noting the proper needed responses to these slanderous references made to my good name - I will get to creating my - perhaps detailed reply, but surely NEVER long-winded!! LOL!!!<P>Patience is a virtue....don't ya know!!!<P>HUGS,<P>Sheba <P>

<B>The news of my demise is a bit premature...</B><P>Heck, my wife has been out of town, and I'm running around like crazy taking care of kids and dogs---and I missed out on this (terrific) thread!<P>I really have had to cut back on MB boards---and I've really started to limit my advice to new posters, simply because I get very involved with checking up on them and giving them feedback. I usually limit myself to the ones that look like they can use a nudge in Steve's direction... . I can't believe the counseling is up to $120 a session---when I started it had just moved from $45 to $60. It's still a bargain: I remember having an appointment with Michele Weiner-Davis, and she was $225 at the time (and that was years ago).<P>I'm with the consensus that reading and rereading this whole site (with the exception of the forum) is one of the best things a beginner can do. When I started, this site was basically the concepts and the Q&A sections---no forum. And between the website, Harley's books, and Steve's counseling, I got moving in the right direction in a hurry. I do really worry that this forum, without the advice and guidance of "experienced" MBers, can end up causing more confusion and uncertainty about what path to take. But I simply don't currently have the 4-6 hours a day that it took for me to post like a madman. <P>Oh well---it's still great to get around here on occasion, and it's terrific to see all of you wonderful people giving a damn!<P>

<B>to Dylan, Sheba and Sheryl</B><P>LMAO, you guys are great. Love your banter and the obvious love you have for each other. It's great.<P><B>Sheryl</B><P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I guess we'll gently tell folks to pa-lease use paragraphs, eh??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You said it better than me, thanks. Sometimes I can be such a buffoon.<P><B>Dylan</B><P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I LOVE YOU TOO SHERYL!!!!!!<BR>that is another thing to impress upon the newbies....<P>Some of the best and closest friendships are made right here..NEVER let ANYONE tell you that this is JUST a message board....<P>I CANNOT imagine my life without some of these people in it....they have SAVED my life and sanity more times than I can recall....<P>((((((((((((((((((group hug)))))))))))))))))<P>aaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.........<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You said a mouthful girl. I can't tell you how many people have told me that and even my beloved husband. One day I said you know honey that if it hadn't been for God leading me there and the people at that "plain old web site" we wouldn't be where we are, in recovery and I wouldn't have made the changes either. I think that got him to realize how real it is. <P>I totally agree at this time in my life, my friends here are my best friends and they haven't abandoned me yet because I am not always comfortable to be around, or because I might have something contagious! (Infidelity)<P>Love all you guys, your really are the best.<P>I still light the candles and helped start that tradition here. <B>TNT</B> used to worry I would burn the house down after I lit them and went to sleep or left the house with them burning. LOL<P>Nighty nite and big hugs,<P>------------------<BR><B>God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! With God on our side we can't lose! What God has joined together let no man put asunder. <P>Samantha</B><p>[This message has been edited by A blessed Samantha (edited April 12, 2001).]

Sheesh... I'm insulted. Granted, I didn't take the "Plan B" advice, but nobody even mentioned me in the SIX PAGE THREAD????<P>::<P>I have been trying to post to the newcomers when I can. For all that I made the decision not to go to Plan B and that my Plan A didn't have the result we all hope for, I still believe in and truly DO understand the Harley principles. It IS so incredibly frustrating, however, to post a response and have it be completely ignored. I've developed a kind of "three strike" rule for myself in that regard - I will post messages of support to newcomers and I am happy to continue posting to them if they at least acknowledge at some point that I posted at all. But if they ignore me completely, and especially if they ignore me and answer posts all around me, it's quite frustrating. I will post twice more. If I get the same non-response or non-acknowledgement, I will devote my energies to someone else... I don't even mind if they post back that they think I am wrong, because at least I know they read my post, and that possibly I may have helped them think of another point.<P>My reasoning isn't mean-spirited in any way - I simply have seriously limited time to be here and have to use it in ways that I think are most productive. I am working 12 hours a day 3 days a week and sometimes all 5 days a week... and I work on Saturdays as well. In my spare time at home I am coding web pages... I don't get to play much!<P>Anyhow ... I decided I needed to remind y'all that I am still here - and that I've been here since ... since ... well, it has been so long that I've forgotten just how long it has really been! October 1998 - that's it!<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Samantha ... would you please email me? **edit** <BR>I have something I'd like to talk to you about... please <P>Terri

<B>K</B><P>Hey there <B>Big Masculine Man</B>. I am so glad you put the rumors to rest on your demise. LOL <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I'm with the consensus that reading and rereading this whole site (with the exception of the forum) is one of the best things a beginner can do. When I started, this site was basically the concepts and the Q&A sections---no forum. And between the website, Harley's books, and Steve's counseling, I got moving in the right direction in a hurry. I do really worry that this forum, without the advice and guidance of "experienced" MBers, can end up causing more confusion and uncertainty about what path to take. But I simply don't currently have the 4-6 hours a day that it took for me to post like a madman. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I have to agree and I know someone else mentioned that a time or two already.<P>I know the first thing I did was read all of this site except the forums and printed out every single page. I to this day have a full three ring binder of this site, that doesn't include one thread or post. In fact it has so much of what is in SAA that if you can't afford the book you can print his and still have nearly all of it. You may run out of paper or printer ink if your low, but it does work!<P>It is just like school to pass the test you have to do the homework and read the text books. For me the final exam is still a work in progress. Harley's principles aren't just for recovering a marriage but a life change.<P>The time spent posting can be huge and naturally we can’t spend all the time here we used to and have a marriage and life. I am currently an afternoon shift widow and that gives me more time. Hopefully though that will change soon and I won’t have the time to come here as much either. Not that I don’t want to come here, but sure would be nice to have the hubby home with me instead of literally only seeing him on weekends. <P>Take care <B>K</B> was great to see you again. <P>------------------<BR><B>God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! With God on our side we can't lose! What God has joined together let no man put asunder. <P>Samantha</B><p>[This message has been edited by A blessed Samantha (edited April 13, 2001).]