You knew me by another name, but I am too ashamed to post under it any more.<P>I was hurt by multiple affairs. My husband had one nine-month-long affair with a much younger coworker, several meetings on business trips, and a multitude of internet and phone affairs. I forgave waves of them...<P>On Thanksgiving, something happened. I was depressed by the latest revelation, upset that we were going to his friends' house (at best a four-hour drive away) instead of having our own Thanksgiving....feeling alone and hurt that I had tried to save the marriage...at the expense of many of my own friendships (with family and female friends).... I didn't pack well, even though it was my "assigned job". I forgot to pack him sweatpants to sleep in.<P>As we drove up the road he lit into me about forgetting his sweatpants. He tore me apart in front of our year-old son, leaving me crying only minutes into our journey...which was dragged out thanks to holiday traffic.<P>As darkness came he asked me what I did with his glasses (he had been wearing his prescription sunglasses). I honestly did not know....more of a harang about not caring about him....<P>Something snapped. I could not care about a man who would treat me that way in front of my son despite everything I had done, everything I had forgiven him for in the past year. <P>I stopped caring.<P>But I didn't end the marriage.<P>What I did do is start talking to men on ICQ. I went to a sex chat room and found people to talk to, people who gave me what I couldn't find at home.<P>Yes. I have retaliated. I am having affairs.<P>One physical with a much younger coworker. (Only once, so far...) Three on the Internet. Only one of whom knows that I am still married, not divorcing. And that one is married and has affairs as frequently as most people drink water.<P>And, of course, my husband has started to straighten up and fly right....<P>Was it that I started to leave the night of his last D-day? (Had I only found the truck keys I would be on the divorced/divorcing board now....) Was it the fact that I wouldn't sleep in the same room as him until he bought us a new mattress, without the ....thought.... of him talking to another woman in it? Was it the fact that I stayed on the computer to all hours, much the way he had, even while I was in labor with our child? I don't know. But much as I look for excuses to divorce, there are none....<P>And no one deserves the pain I felt. Not even him. But here I am, addicted to the feelings I get from these other men, not really know love anywhere any more.<P>If it weren't for my child I would have left long ago. Now I question whether staying together for that one reason is enough.<P>I need to break it off with the others. But I don't want to any more. And I am surprised by how little guilt I feel, even though I KNOW how much it hurts....<P>I guess I'm coming here now to try to find the strength to either break it off or make it work with my husband. And I don't know which would be best.<P>Thanks for listening to my long winded ramble.<P>Blessings.<BR>Kat =^^=

Oh Kat-my heart bleeds for you <P>I am so sorry to read your story-I can feel your pain so very well.<P>I think you went as long as you could.<P>I have been there.<P>And I too just one day stopped caring. It IS hard to love someone forever that ridicules you and plays mind games day in and day out.<P>I just wish-for your sake-that you had not had to go online to find the comfort you need in life.<P>Please Kat-look inside yourself and find the person you want to be. Then rech in and take yourself by the hand and slowly lead your way out of the darkness and back in to the light.<P>Please find peace within yourself. You need it and your child needs it.<P>And please-do not be ashamed-but stop the harm you are doing to yourself and others.<P><P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."

Foolish Kat,<P>Oh, My heart aches for you...<P>I guess you know the first thing I'll say -- stop the affairs. For YOU, for your SELF RESPECT. And yes, for your H, and even for your son's sake.<P>Yes, you need to feel love, but you know that these men can't give it to you... not the REAL DEAL...<P>You've stayed so far because of your son. That is noble and worthy... can you find the love that was lost with your H?? Is that possible at this point?<P>I welcome you back, no matter what name you post with.<P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

heartache, nb,<P>Thank you both for your replies.<P>You both are correct. Intellectually I realize that "patching my way through" the marriage by getting what I need elsewhere is not the answer. <P>I came back here because I wanted to shake it. <P>But as soon as I resolved to end the affairs and tend to the marriage, sure enough, husband picks another fight. Only in his book I picked a fight. So there's probably truth in both, but I don't feel like saying, "Yes, dear, my fault" any more.<P>Yes, in part it is, but it isn't ALL my fault. And I'm tired of Plan A-ing and avoiding lovebusters just to have Mr. Joy pull one of his LB Supremes.<P>So I go back to avoidance. *sigh* I guess a baby step would be that I didn't go and hang out chatting...<P>*SIGH*<P>Maybe I do something wrong when I pay attention to H. Maybe that's what sets him off. Maybe I'm saying or doing something that I think is loving but he thinks is a pain in the bottom.<P>If so, I wish he would just tell me instead of saying that everything is all right while SHOWING me it isn't.<P>I guess the good news is that I didn't find more affairs on his part. But then again, maybe I'm not looking any more. <BR>The last time I snooped I found a picture of another female, but it was a very inocuous picture....not unlike those I sent to folks when I really was innocently talking to people around the world. <P>*sigh*<P>I just don't know what the right answer is any more. This marriage would need SO much work to become a real marriage. I don't think I have it in me any more. So maybe I should be going to a therapist to figure out why I hold on. Maybe it's time to throw in the towel and admit defeat.<P>Thanks for listening. And thanks again for the responses.<P>Blessings.<BR>Kat =^^=

{{{Kat}}}<P>I didn't reply at first because all I could think was "That could be me...."<P>You know you have to stop the affair(s?). I know you know that.<P>If you honestly think that you don't love your husband any more, then you need to make the tough decisions and start the divorce. Not a fun choice, but far better than living a lie.<P>If you are not already in counseling, I would suggest starting.<P>All the best to you. Hang in there.<BR>--HBC

Hi again Kat,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I just don't know what the right answer is any more. This marriage would need SO much work to become a real marriage. I don't think I have it in me any more. So maybe I should be going to a therapist to figure out why I hold on. Maybe it's time to throw in the towel and admit defeat.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So many of us have been at the precise place you are. Since you were here (on MB) before, perhaps you know my story? I felt so much like you do, and I did go to a therapist, and I did file for divorce, and I did meet someone new, and eventually, I moved very far away from all of it (including my children [who are 19,18 and 16]) to be with the man I began a relationship with. We are both divorced now, and I have put "everything" into this relationship. It was THE HARDEST THING I'VE EVER DONE!! I thought leaving would "end it all" and make me feel better. It didn't. <P>My past-marriage was hard -- hell, at times. But I loved the a**hole, even when he cheated, even when he called me names, even when he pulled my hair... and it was hard to leave. Very hard.<P>Just giving you a heads-up on the fantasy aspect of getting a divorce.<P>My fear for you RIGHT NOW is that you'll put yourself into a **dangerous** situation with these men. You lower your self-worth every time you turn to them, and god forbid you sleep with anyone else, you will see yourself as whorish and worthless. I know... I spent a good part of the 70's, before marriage "lookin' for love in all the wrong places" and it took YEARS to look at myself in the mirror.<P>Honey, I don't know who you are, and I don't care. You are Kat, and you need support and love. <P>Keep posting.<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

HBC:<P>Thank you for responding. You are right. They need to stop. But... *wan smile*<P>And I started in counseling but stopped when the counselor didn't seem to have anything to offer me. I think I know the decision I need to make, I just need to make it.<P>new beginning:<P>I have no illusions about divorce being a great answer to my state of affairs. If I thought it would be, I'd be gone by now. I am just beginning to think that maybe it is the best answer I have.<P>As far as feeling "whorish"....there was a part of me that felt that way when I first went venturing into the dark side. But that has been mostly replaced with someone who feels as though she sneaks off to save her sanity. That attitude is one of the things that makes me think it might be time to give up.<P>Maybe this is just some desperate attempt to see if hubby would Plan A me...but then again I don't want to hurt him by having him find out.....<P>Sheesh. You'd think I'd learn, wouldn't you?<P>Blessings to you both. And thank you for responding.<BR>Kat =^^=

Thank you for sharing and I can totally relate,,, H has been on the net for 7-8 years and has had multiple EA and a couple of PA that I know of... during this whole time he had chatted and flirted and wasted more time than he cares to admit now.....<BR>last night I woke up at 245 and had an anxiety attack I had to get up and get medicine to sleep .... this is all a result of the pain I have been in for 7 years and I filed in January since I got to the point you are now where you just dont care... I also had an EA eventhough I didnt think there was anything wrong with confiding in a "friend" of course I went to him for "all" my emotional support. <BR>I was surprised to read your post today since I was thinking to myself last night that I must be the only one who went outside the marriage after being a doormat for so long.... BUT I know one thing for sure it is not about being a door mat or not is about Adultery and your self esteem and doing the right thing... I now feel like such a looser somtimes for not understanding before that you either work with what you have and fix it or get out of it... doing what they do only makes you feel cheap in the end and you loose yourself and find just that much more pain and depression from living with the aftermath of the things you do and later are accountable for... God Bless you and I will pray for you since reading your post has helped me understand where I have been and I hope you reading mine helps you also.<BR>C1

Kat and Concerned1,<P>How are you today???<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

new beginning,<P>I'm doing medium okay, thanks for asking. <P>I think I started coming here so I could gather the courage needed to either do my business or get off the pot, so to speak.... <P>I had a long talk with a girl friend of mine last night. She asked some good questions: <BR>...Whether I could understand where H was coming from with his internet affairs...<BR>...What happened when we argued...<BR>...Whether the good times outweighed the bad times...<BR>...What I would do with my "friends" if I did end the marriage....<P>Good questions to consciously think of the answers to.... I know the answers.... I need to focus and do What's Right instead of doing what gets me through. Sort of like putting a hot epsom salt pack on a tumor...feels good for a time but the tumor is still there...<P>{{{{Concerned One}}}}:<P>I could feel the pain in your post. You are right: it <B>is</B> about doing the right thing. <P>But don't beat yourself up about what you did. You looked for validation when you didn't get it at home. Yes, you and I both should have done things differently, but we didn't and our actions cannot be taken back. <P>It is important to know that we are pretty, intelligent, worthwhile human beings. We know that. We need to move on.<P>Blessings to you both.<BR>Kat =^^=

New-beginning and Kat<P>thanks for your kind words and I come here everyday,,, it is the first thing when I get to work <P>I try to tell my story and warn others about playing the internet game for too long with others feelings... like I said mine went on for ever it seemed and every day brings on new understanding why we "both" have done what we did... you see I was raped 16 years ago right about the time when we had had our first child and we had the happy home and boy did I love my man ,,, we went to counceling and thought we had fixed it all,,, but yet through it all I could not rely on H with my emotions since during this time he had many times told me to "just forget about it" sounds rude of him right? well he was in a lot of pain from the whole ordeal and the councelor told me that he just didnt have the life experiences needed for him to deal with this... so I was to be the leader and help us out of it... ok so I did,,, but when I needed someone to talk to I went to everyone else but him,,, it took some time for us to draw apart over this and after several years where he didnt feel connected to me anymore... he went on the net... so you see... this is a long story with lots of pain ,,, but not too different from everyone else.. we are human we make mistakes, we love, we hurt and we try to fix what sometimes only God can fix <BR>thanks for listening I needed to get that off my chest.<P>btw,,I am crazy about my man still !<P>C1<P>Kat hang in there... I have been reading Max Lucados (Just like Jesus,, dont let the title scare ya away LOL) it talks about forgiveness and I feel deeply moved by it.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Concerned1 (edited April 18, 2001).]

Hey Kat -<P>I noticed you on Worthatry's Thread, and just now noticed this post. I'm sorry I didn't respond sooner. By now you know my background , but while there are a lot of differences between us and in our situations, I think there are some really big similarities.<P>(1) You finally reached a point when you knew that you either had to stay and try to work things out - or you had to leave and figure things out. For me, I choose to stay and try to work things out with my H. At first I had doubts, didn't even know if I loved my H or not. My H and I do not have kids yet, so when I thought about leaving, I thought about how my life would be affected - everything from how my parents would feel, about how my friends would treat me - to how I would feel if my H was no longer a part of my life. If nothing else, my H has always been my best friend. We may have had a few problems in our marriage, but generally, he was always there for me, we always spent time together, and I really don't know why the A happened in the first place (well, I kind of do now, but that took a while to figure out). I guess, for me, when I thought about life without my H in it - I kind of tried to picture him "dead." And for me, that thought was unbearable. For me, it kind of gave me enough wherewithal (always wanted to use that word in a sentence. . .) to end the A and at least try.<P>(2) Another thing we have in common, I think, is that we both, kind of realize that all we ever wanted was to be happy. That when you grow up and get married, there's this big fairy tale ending - and we're lead to believe that once the bride runs off with the groom - it is assumed that they will live happily everafter. Well, the sequel to the story never told us about mortgage payments, losey jobs, HOUSEWORK, loads upon loads of laundry, crying kids, sick kids who need to be taken to the doctors, prescriptions, car payments, etc. . . I guess what happened for me was that my expectations of marriage were a lot different that what I had expected - and instead of growing together, working together as a team, my H and I grew apart. Maybe the same thing happened to you an your H - but at some point, when you got married, I think you loved the guy, right?<P>(3) I finally decided that I had to do something. For me, I chose to end the affair and cofess everything to my H - I did that because, well you know my religious background, but I also did it because I didn't want to have any regrets. Even though I liked the OM, the thought of having "new" love, I kind of knew, deep inside, that it would only be a matter of time before reality set in - if not with me and the OM, with someone else. I kind of knew all along that I want to grow old with someone, I want to be married and have a family - so did I really want to start over with the OM, someone knew? I kind of already knew my H's faults, I knew some of the OM's faults (and there was a lot unknown) - but I knew I could count on my H - for his support - it's really one of the reasons I married him. And, I guess, deep down, if things didn't work out with my H, I didn't want to have any regrets. If nothing else, I had already broken my marriage vows - but I could still try to save my marriage. I guess, for me, I couldn't live with the fact that I didn't at least try to make things work. So I stayed.<P>4) The other thing, that maybe we have in common, was or is unmet needs. Maybe to different degrees, but for me, I didn't even know that I had certain needs until I came to this site. So, I decided to try and apply the principles here - to see if it would work for us. It was worth a shot. At least I would have tried something.<P>5) For me, I guess I was really just looking to be happy. And I think we have something in common by wanting a happy and healthy marriage. For me, I guess, I kind of determined that I wanted to try to have that with a man I knew I once loved enough to marry - than just some other guy who came along when I wanted someone - or someone to meet my needs.<P>And, I don't know if we have this in common or not, but for me, I was always searching for happiness from other people. And really, it's an awful, trite, statement, but I think it's ture - happiness comes from within. For me, I truly became happy from "doing the right thing" and trying to make my marriage work. For me, I ended the A - not knowing what would happen - or even if my H would want to try and save our marriage - and build a better one, but I just kind of knew I could do both - have an affair and have a marriage. The two just didn't go together, for me. And from your post you sound the same way.<P>I guess I never knew whether or not thigns would work out, but I gave it a year to try and figure things out - with both of us trying, and committing to our marriage. And, after a year, I definitely have no regrets about trying to save my marriage - it has been replaced by an even better marriage. It's not the storybook ending you dream about as a kid, but I am very happy and content with my life and my marriage - but it didn't happen over night. It took a lot of time and patience - and love and courage - to get here. And, my H has been one amazing person.<P>So, while this is a decision you have to make, for me I only had three years invested in my marriage before the A happened. Pretty short period of time, right? Well, I guess I figured - if nothing else - it took me three years to get to this point - I'll at least give it a year to try and turn things around. And it is possible, and I guess that's really what I wanted to share with you. even when you think the odds are stacked against you - it is possible to build a better marriage.<P>

HI Kat,<BR>(((((hugs))))) my dear. <BR>Whew, you are lost right now, and unfortunately some of us understand the feelings you have. No, I have not had any affairs or flirted, but I sure have thought about it! Not sure what keeps me moving along, but will send some of it to you. <BR>We often feel so lost after discovery-things move along toward healing, but there are a lot of bumps. Sometimes we just dont want another bump. Tired of bouncing around-frustrated at how we feel and what we miss from the pre-affair marriage years. <BR>Some mos ago I posted on the d/d board because I truly wanted some advice regarding staying married or divorcing. Do I want to divorce h because I really want that total love, those feelings I used to have for my h, and no longer have at the same depth? Hmmmmm, is there a guarantee that I will ever feel it again? YIKES, I MISS THOSE FEELINGS! <BR>But they are coming back-slow but there is progress. Be patient Kat. <BR>Most of all, be good to yourself. aloha, cl