I am one of several here that have faithfully followed the MB principles, executed Plan A and Plan B well, and will soon be divorced. I have yet to see any regret, remorse, or second-thoughts from my wayward husband, who is still with the same OW for nearly three years. He dropped the kids for a long time, and is finally starting to invest effort in being a parent. My love is dead and I see him as not worth any time or effort from me. I had to start the divorce as he would never have done it.<P>Despite all the pain, personal regret, and investment I made in what appears to have been a lost cause (I am convinced that NO course of action I could take would have brought my husband back to the marriage), I am also clear that there are definite winners and losers in this situation. Today, I move forward with a clear conscience, knowing I did everything possible and operated with total integrity. I have strong interpersonal relationships with all of my family, his family, all our prior prior friends, and many new ones I have made. While most of these people think I treated my husband far too well under the circumstances, they all respect my strength, honor and commitment. As I approach the dating scene, I come across as honest, committed and loving in my relationships, and have total credibility with my dates. I can tell them my specific shortcomings during the marriage and how I have worked through them. I am also free of guilt and pain, and happy to see my spouse for what he is and be free of it. My happiness shines through and I have more people that want to date me than I could possibly handle. I’m secure in myself, know what I’m looking for in a new partner, and have set a high standard in finding one. I am happy in my life and in absolutely no rush to enter an exclusive relationship.<P>By comparison, my wayward that never looked back and never looked inward, remains in a strange relationship with a woman who is older, dramatically less educated, a subordinate at work, and selected by happenstance. Aside from one encounter with my BIL, no one in the family has met her. Three years later, they are still undercover at the office. They don’t spend holidays together, don’t live together, and recently my stbx stopped seeing her during the kids visitation, since my son complained about not spending enough time with his dad. He has gained at least 50 pounds and aged in a horrible way. He is in horrible denial, still unable to say the word “divorce”, and lives in isolation. He no longer communicates with either brother, anyone in my family, nor any of the former common friends (now only my friends). He continues to live in the one bedroom apartment he moved into after leaving our 4,000 square foot house, still filled with rental furniture, and has our eight year-old sharing a bed with him during visitation. No one respects him. It seems that the only things he has in his life are his job and his girlfriend.<P>While I regret having spent so much time trying to save a hopeless situation (it was about 2 ½ years), I am proud of the way I’ve developed and learned from having gone through this type of devastation. There is no question that I emerged a better person. I think this is nearly a universal sentiment of those having gone through this process. So this oldtimer will stop in to give the newbies some strong advice. REGARDLESS OF WHAT HAPPENS TO YOUR MARRIAGE, YOU WILL GAIN BY GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS OF UNDERSTANDING WHAT WENT WRONG, YOUR ROLE IN IT, AND LEARNING THE SKILLS TO DO BETTER. You will grow. Even in the worst case, your love will eventually diminish and you will have much to bring to new relationships. The one thing you can control is yourself, and you have much to gain. Waywards that never look inside to learn from this experience are truly tragic. But that won’t be the case for nearly everyone that visits this site and works the principles.<BR>

Very inspiring. Just what I needed to hear tonight!! You sound like an MB success despite the D!!! Keep taking care of yourself and your son.<BR>(((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Distressed,<P>Loved your post!!! You have come a long, long way. One thing I am still trying to deal with is understanding the heart and mind of the WS. I can still never understand why he wouldn't try. I have all kinds of theories, and I have spent countless hours trying to figure it all out. But, I finally came to the realization that even if I figured it out, it would not have changed the outcome. Distressed, you will probably never know what he is thinking that motivates him to continue this path.<P>Mostly, I try to spend little thought on those things that can not bring me to a better place. I have enough to work on myself! I really agree that one can learn a whole lot from the MB principles. The most important - and they should teach this before you can get married, is to not take things for granted - believing that the relationship will always be there just because you are married. Meeting each other's needs is so important and it doesn't matter how great you did it in the past....if you aren't so great today, your relationship is in big trouble! Past success doesn't count for too much with some folks!<P>You are doing great, Distressed. Surely there will be more happiness for you, your son and your daughter!!!!<P>Take care, Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

I wish that were true in my case. I have experienced so much the opposite. I have a reasonably clear conscience and I wouldn't want to trade places with my H, but I am far from free of pain. My love for my H has not diminished in the slightest. I used to be a fairly trusting, optimistic person, and what I have learned from all this is that you can not trust anyone, that they can undergo a personality transformation overnight, and that just when you think it can not get worse, it will. <P>My H has acquired an entirely new life - new friends (hers), a very comfortable lifestyle; his father apparently welcomes her; because she doesn't want our kids around he rarely sees them. He doesn't have to worry about people respecting him because none of his new friends have any way of knowing that he deserted his wife and family for an OW, and his family apparently doesn't give a damn. As far as I can tell, he is not bothered excessively by the fact that his oldest two kids want nothing to do with him, and one of them has not spoken to him since the night he left over two years ago. He has no apparent problem shutting out any and all emotions except anger. He has been unemployed for almost a year, but he can get by ok by working only occasionally - I assume she must be paying some of his living expenses. It was not just coincidence that his OW is well-to-do. <P>I don't know if the way he is leading his life will result in long-term happiness, but it sure results in freedom from pain.

Distressed - you are truly a success! A wonderful message.<P>Lori

Distressed:<P>I always said that you were a success---it's great to see you doing well. I have really felt for your situation: it was very tough, and you handled it in such a terrific, caring, loving way. <P>You are a success, and a terrific lady to boot!<P>

Distressed<P>Thankyou for sharing this with us. I can almost see myself - and my H. After more than 2 years i finally went to Plan B. H has moved out - for the umpteenth time- but the "no contact" is finaly working; and each day I slowly feel a bit better about me. I would very much like us to recover from all this - but yur situation inspires me and gives me strength to believe I just might be better off without him. my H has not told any of his/our friends - in fact just today a colleague rang here wanting tospeak to him. I have decided no longer to cover up - and simply replied "Oh, I hope not to embarrass you but H no longer lives here. We have separated" - it made me feel strong - <P>R

Distressed, I've been reading here for quite sometime, and your posts have ALWAYS come across as right on the money. You have such an understanding of this whole process and what's happened, and you've emerged the victor. There is a sense that you have been grounded during this whole mess, that your husband obviously hasn't had. When I was reading the thread about the misapplication of Plan A that you posted, I could completely understand what you were saying. You have a wonderful life ahead

Thank you for the great responses. I hope that I have something to give back to the forum at this stage. So many helped me for so long.<P>Too Trusting, I read your posts and we sound like we’re in similar places in regard to accepting the situations with our spouses. I do believe that knowledge is the power that gives you a platform for effective action. We often talk on these boards about the fog/denial of the waywards. I am convinced that there is just as much denial amongst the betrayed. There is a difference between the temporary insanity of an affair and a significant character defect that is likely permanent and probably was always present. I think you can usually tell the difference based on the degree of remorse and compassion the wayward expresses a few months after exposure. It’s a far different person that says “I didn’t mean for this to happen, I love so and so, I can’t end it, and I need to try this other relationship”, versus “this is your fault, you’re too controlling, I’m not doing anything inappropriate (lying and denying for months/years), it’s not about her – it’s about you, etc., etc.”. The marital outcome resulting from the two may or may not be different, but the person that has the second type of attitude, is much less likely to see his own role in the situation, and therefore less likely to see the marriage as salvagable. And here’s an even stronger comment. If the second type of person eventually does come back to the marriage, odds are you’ll still be in a bad marriage. If a person can’t see his own role and make changes, you have nothing to work with. It’s better for the betrayed that they end up with the OP. It has taken me almost three years to realize that the OW probably did me a favor.<P>Desiree, we are the strong survivors and definitely the winners. I look back at e-mails and posts from a year ago and I’m amazed (and horrified) at how I sounded. We have analyzed and speculated for thousands of hours. In the end, it means nothing. Nevertheless, I’ll express an opinion as to why he wouldn’t try and why others don’t. My opinion is that the anger and frustration that preceded the affair was building for a very long time, possibly years. Even though my husband was completely indecisive during the marriage, he was keeping score every time I made a decision he didn’t like, or when he made a decision himself because he assumed it was what I wanted. He went along with me always, never expressed disagreement, for the sake of keeping the peace. Meanwhile, resentment built. Trying to live with it was his version of “trying”. In his mind, he tried for a long time to keep the marriage together, even though I was unaware of it. By the time we actually separated, his lovebank for me was empty and there was someone else filling it up. There was no way he would even consider going back and “trying” again. I want to stress this point again. The real problem in my mind is his inability to look inward to accept any responsibility for the marital disintegration, nor to see how he could change to improve our marriage. The only choices he saw were learning to live with me or leaving. He didn’t think I would be able to sustain the changes he saw and frankly, he was right. I would not have been able to keep Plan Aing him for life if he was unwilling to make any changes or invest any effort himself. I am sure that is how he would have approached reconciliation, as that is how he has approached our entire relationship. Looking back, it has always been all me. My opinion is that if we had reconciled, it wouldn’t have lasted more than a few months. I would have been miserable carrying the entire load.<P>Nellie, I think there are degrees to this, but the overall comments apply to your situation as well. You have learned and grown from this situation. Unfortunately, divorce brings very real financial and logistical problems, especially with so many children. Nevertheless, you are a better person and your husband sounds like a miserable, empty shell. Your struggle is greater and so is the pain, but you have integrity and we all admire you. Your ex-husband has nothing of real value in his life, as near as I can tell.<P>Lori, thank you for the nice comments. I really admire your story and the way you’ve dealt with the situation. Others reading this should see that all kinds of outcomes are possible from following this path, and that in most cases, the outcome is a good one. Even if divorce happens.<P>Thanks K. I really appreciate your support throughout this ordeal. I’ve learned a lot from you.<P>Rosebrook, I had to laugh at your story. My husband still acts as kid’s sports events like we’re together. At a swim meet during the summer, I overheard someone ask him where he lived and he gave my address. Nowadays, I correct this when I hear it. I sent shockwaves through the soccer moms when I told them we were getting divorced. Perhaps a little evil, but I enjoyed doing that.<P>I do think you have to wonder why someone would do this. They’re in pretty sad shape when they can’t tell others what they’ve done. Denial runs deep. The plans are useful here though. I have become a huge proponent of Plan B, mostly because I don’t believe Plan A adds value after you’ve demonstrated the changes, but comes at a high personal cost. Plan B lets you focus on your own life. Good luck with this.<P>Thank you Kayleigh. I feel very grounded now, but I’ve been all over the place. This is very much an evolution, along a predictable path. It has gotten easier with time, and I have become more philosophical and accepting of the situation with distance. It takes a long time to start seeing the opportunity that is presented, rather than fearing and mourning the life that was lost. But once that happens, life begins again.<BR>

Distressed -<P>Awesome, Awesome post! You are a true survivor and an inspiration to all of us! Thanks for sharing your words of wisdom.

Dear D, <P>I did not get to see your entire story but I see your wisdom and wanted to thank you for your post. You have used what you learned her and applied them well. Since we can not control our spouses, they may not choose to benefit from the same info as we are trying to so the outcome may be different. <P>You have shown me that with or without my H, I can still be a whole person one who is bringing benefit to myself and family now and may one day bring benefit to someone who will love and care for our family and our needs. <P>You post really moved me. I have been having a bad week, lots of ups and downs (big vent on d/d site - but ok now). I needed to read a stable post. <P>I wish you happiness in your new future.<P>Thanks,<BR>L.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Orchid (edited April 13, 2001).]

<BR>This thread is now in my own personal "Notable Posts" collection.<P>Thank you, Distressed, for saying so very well what I've been trying to organize in my mind for a long time. Keep shining the light, I'm not very far behind you. Thank you for showing me the way.<P>--<BR>o2bsane@hotmail.com<P>

Distressed, <P>You are so right when you said:<P> takes a long time to start seeing the opportunity that is presented, rather than fearing and mourning the life that was lost. But once that happens, life begins again.<P>I think that if your marriage ends, you still have to go through the mourning process. It is one of the stages of healing - mourning the loss. But as I've always said, too, when a door is shut in your life, God ALWAYS give you another open door - you just have to be looking for it. And, I am not necessarily talking about another mate/companion, but another chance for a happy and fulfilling life! You have walked through the other door and are on your way to feeling happier and more peaceful than you have in these most recent years.<P>I still re-read Dr Harley's Q&A section, and Steve's articles, from time-to-time. I really recommend that to everyone. One of the most interesting things popped out. I was reading the Q&A under Infidelity and then under Internet Affairs: Dr harley says that one person working alone can NOT save a marriage. But, by using Plan A, it is hoped that the WS will see enough changes to incentivize them to want to work on the marriage. THAT is what Plan A does - it surely was never a promise to save the marriage. Wish others could really understand that. By ourselves - you, Nellie, me, others - we were totally unable to save our marriages because we didn't have a partner who also wanted to try to save the marriage. <P>I remember telling my counsleor on my last visit that I felt "peaceful" and "victorious"! He remarked that I used some significant words. But, eventually, that is how I came to feel. We can all survive the after effects of infidelity. It isn't an easy road to travel, but it can be done. <P>Yes, you are a SUCCESS!!!<P>Luv ya, Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Wow <B>Distressed</B>,<P>I don't know HOW I missed this thread!!<P>Excellent points, one and all.<P>You know, I don't think you should regret that you tried so hard... you tried until you couldn't any more... and there is no shame in that, you know.<P>You are an inspiration!<P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck