To all WS, I am in need of your assistance. D-Day for me was this Tuesday. My H says he can't live with the pain he has caused me. He's blown out my flame, destroyed me and our marriage. H said MB states one person survives and goes on, but what about the other. Meaning the WS, how do they go on with what they have done. H says he can't look at me anymore. Would any of the WS please post how you got through that part or your experiance. I would like to give it to my H. H is hurting so much right now and I want to help him. Any assistance is appreciated, but I also understand if you can not reply to me.

My H posts here under the name "unbelievable" Called "thoughts from a WS". Long posts but he really pours out his heart. Also there was a thread by Clarity? called "Come on baby,lift my fog" That one helped us too. I'll have my H look at this. I know he'd want to help.<P>I am soo glad he is home and you are working on it. <BR>My H has learned so much abput my position since he has been reading and posting here. It CAN be done,it ain't easy...but with the Harley's help and that of God and your own love,it can be as good as it ever was.

Lost it is so important that your H is where he is.<BR>Hurting and realizing all the pain,,accepting his doing.<BR>That is the beginning...<BR>Let him know that you still love him...and comfort him, too. He needs you so much...and what he goes through will help you heal too. Heal together...<BR>You will need to find the posts .<BR>since, I have been on this board the view of the ws has really helped me understand my H..and what he is going through.<BR>It won't be easy Lost...but you CAN DO IT.

Don't believe this 'only the strong survive' BS.. <BR>The fact of the matter is. This whole thing will make you stronger as a person than he. You have been hurt by a weaker person, weaker as they broke their vows over weakness. What he says to you is only to make himself feel better over what HE has done. Don't give him the satisfaction that he wants by letting him continue to walk on you.<BR>You should get your H to talk to me, I'll sit down and show them my lawyer bills from my recent D, and tell him how things happen in the REAL world, not his dilluted "all I want is this and we'll be ok" world. Perhaps he won't feel so strong after that.<BR>

Lost,<P>I wanted to post in response to this though I can't say I am 'through' the experience.<P>I understand completely what your H is saying. I am also a WS, and these are things that I have expressed to my H - but mostly these thoughts run through me constantly...like the undercurrent of all I call my 'life'...if that makes any sense. Even if it isn't discussed, it's always there - just under the surface.<P>I would never attempt to compare the pain of a BS with that of a WS. For one, I haven't been in both positions to be able to say I understood each. And secondly I think they must be, two totally different beasts...there probably is no way to compare them in a way that would be helpful.<P>Your H may describe to you the feeling that there is now this 'thing' within him - because of what he's done - that if he could only grab hold of it he would surely tear it out of the very core of himself and destroy it. This thing - whatever it was - that allowed him to stab the very heart of you, like he did. If there was a way to take it away, the past, your pain, I know he would.<P>I have fallen to my face, I have cried out in pain and shame, I have longed to bang myself into a wall to rid myself of what I have done to my H. And to the OM and his life.<P>I can't do that. It kills me.<P>I should have thought of it 'before'. Oh yes. I should have there is no doubt of the truth of that.<P>I have never felt a greater hopelessness or a more profound sense of loss of 'who I am' than in this place. By hurting so instensely my H, my spirit has been literally crushed. The feeling is unable to be escaped. When I think of it, I can't breathe.<P>There are passages in the bible where I think it's David (in the pslams?) crys out to God, telling how his sin is heaped on his head, how it is overwhelming him, crushing him. I never understood those words until now.<P><BR>Perhaps, what is the most difficcult thing is simply the fact that I chose it. I did this thing. I can't say I was forced. I can't say this just 'happened' to me - as if I was an innocent victum of circumstance alone. Counsel says I was vunerable, perhaps it is true enough, but no amount of reason, no understanding of the 'state of my marriage' at the time, can justify it or ease the pain.<P>So what can one do now?<P>You H may know intellectually, that at some point, along with healing with you as a couple, he will have to find a way to forgive himself so that your life together can be rebuilt. I know it is true for me too.<P>Sorry I talked a lot with no real solid help to suggest. I just hope it helps you both to know that you are not alone. <P>Lost, if you will go beyond being a wife to you H, and take your rightful place as his best friend - You will be his hero. <P>Thanks to all BS. The very fact that you are here - trying to understand - trying to heal - trying to help your WS - trying to get help for yourselves - makes you beautiful people. Your incredible strength in this time, will make all the difference....because WS's are broken people - too broken to walk, talk or even think straight at times.<P>Please don't give up Lost.<P>thanks for taking the time to read all this - misspellings and all : )<BR>...just really touched a cord in me today.<P>take care<BR>-dawnn

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by oniblade:<BR><B>Don't believe this 'only the strong survive' BS.. <BR>The fact of the matter is. This whole thing will make you stronger as a person than he. You have been hurt by a weaker person, weaker as they broke their vows over weakness. What he says to you is only to make himself feel better over what HE has done. Don't give him the satisfaction that he wants by letting him continue to walk on you.<BR>You should get your H to talk to me, I'll sit down and show them my lawyer bills from my recent D, and tell him how things happen in the REAL world, not his dilluted "all I want is this and we'll be ok" world. Perhaps he won't feel so strong after that.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hmm, a little bitter aren't we. Look, I asked for help and you bash the hell out of my H. Yes he has done wrong, yes he has hurt me beyond what I thought he could do. I have hurt him too, I realize this. I am quite offended by your post. Actually I'm pissed off. How dare you bash what you don't know. You may have been there done that, but MB is about rebuilding, you sure in the hell do not have that view. <P>I'm to pissed off at you and your remarks to make further remarks to you. How DARE you!?!?!?!<P>

double post sorry<p>[This message has been edited by Dawnn (edited April 13, 2001).]

Wounded2673, Crete and Dawnn thank you so much for your replies. I'm still al little ticked at Oniblade, but I wanted to say thank you. It helps me and hopefully my H a lot. I will respond more specifically later today when I'm not so angry..<P>*hugs* to all

Hi LnCo,<P>Coaching here @ Anger management 1A: BREATHE<P>Remember to look at these posts for the good and what you need. Then throw the rest away. We are all here sharing our thoughts with our viewpoints. No one really knows all that you are going through and visa versa yet we try because we often do know more than those who have not been through what we are going through. <P>Based on what has just happened with your H's revelation of the A. you are still in a bit of shock. It will take a while before the pain settles and your sensitivity settles back to your ol' self. Ok, remember my post about crying, screaming into the pillow or whatever to relieve your internal stress? Try it. <P>If you have ever seen George of the Jungle, there was a scene where Brendan Fraser tells the girl to just scream and she would feel better. Ok it's kind of like that. Call me crazy but it helps. Just watch where you do it. <P>Will check in on you later. Hang in there. <P>L.<BR>

Lostco -<P>I am a former WS, and my H and I have been in recovery for over a year, and I am very happy to say that we not only survived this mess, we are thriving.<P>I am definitely one of this site's success stories and all of my posts are written from a WS perspective. I've written close to a thousand posts, so, if it helps, you might want to do a search on my username "SKM" in either this section - or more imporantly, in the Recovery Forum.<P>There's one post in particular (my first one in June 2000) where I talked about how I felt at that time, it was in response to a person named TOD and the subject was on guilty feelings (recovery section). Most recently, I wrote a bunch of information dealing with the past year - in recovery - from my perspective. It's called the "SKM Chronicles" and was posted here and in the recovery section.<P>Having said all that, I first want to say to you how sorry I am that you are here. You did not deserve to have this happen to you, and I'm sure this is probably one of the worst things you have experienced in your life. But, you can save your marriage, you can rebuild a stronger marriage, you can never forget, but you can forgive. You and your H have the power to save or tear apart - not just your marriage, but your relationship.<P>In my case, I had an EA that went to a PA. In all the affair lasted about 5-6 months. During this time, my H never knew anything was wrong. Me, I, for a long time didn't even know how I got into this mess. I never thought that I would be the "type of person" to have had an affair. I never cheated in school, so how could I have broken a sacred vow to my best friend, to the one person I was supposed to love above all others?<P>Well, this last year, I did a lot of thinking, a lot of learning, a lot of accepting and a lot of changing. It hasn't been an easy road, but my H and I pulled together and I can honestly tell you that we are more in love today than on the day we married.<P>This is such a big issue, and I want to make sure I cover everything - so doing a search on my name would probably be best. Basically, when I confessed the affair, I felt miserable. I finally told my H everything because I couldn't take the lying and the cheating, I didn't know what I was doing and I didn't even know who I was anymore. When the affair progressed from an EA to a PA, well, I felt dirty, sleazy. I called myself every name in the book, and I knew that I couldn't keep the A a secret from my H - I just couldn't live a lie even though he would have never known. And, for me, the lies would have eaten me alive.<P>So, the first part of "getting through this" for me, was actually confiding in my H, explaining what had happened. I didn't know why it happened or even how it happened, but I told him. I told my H that I loved him, that I wanted to try and work out our problems, but that I needed his help. See, I never ever knew that there was anything wrong with my marriage - my H had his faults, but there was nothing that he did or didn't do that pushed me into having an affair.<P>Anyway, the next part of getting through this was making a commitment to end the A and to never have any kind of contact with the OM. The next part was getting through withdrawl and actually contributing to the effort of rebuilding our marriage.<P>My story is so long and so sordid, but essentially I had my doubts - even though I was 100% remorseful, I still had doubts that my H and I would ever be able to be "happy" again - that this one huge horrible mistake that I had made would hang over our heads forever.<P>Again, I say, it wasn't easy to recover. But, my H was absolutely amazing during this whole time. After I ended the affair, I basically cried non-stop for two months - not really because of the loss of the relationship, but over the loss of myself. I may not have been the brightest kid on the block, or the prettiest, or the most accomplished, but I always had my integrity. And after the affair, well, I pretty much lost that and any self-respect that I had for myself. Even though my H still loved me and forgave me 100%, I still felt like this huge failure - that not only did I let my H down, but I let myself down. Not only was my H feeling pain, but I felt miserable for having caused that pain. Most days, I could barely stand to look at myself in the mirror. And, in fact, on two occasions, I became so desperate that I tried to end my life. I felt miserable, hopeless and lost. I never thought I could get through this, I never thought that I would regain my self-respect but I did.<P>It took a lot of reading on infidelity, the application of all the principles mentioned on this site, it took a lot of pereserverance, love, and patience on the part of my H, and it took a lot of praying.<P>I have written about this a hundred times, and other people on this site are probably tired of hearing it, so it might be a good idea to check out my posts (after a year, you'd think I would know how to do links, but I don't).<P>Anyway, my recommendation is to read books on infidelity : including: Surviving An Affair by Harley; His needs, Her Needs by Harley; Infidelity Your Complete Survivor's Guide by E. Gough and if your H is Christian, I highly recommend "Three Steps Forward, Two Steps Back" by Swindoll; "Strengthening Your Grip" by Swindoll; and Just Like Jesus by Lucado.<P>I know you and your H are both hurting right now. My recommendation for you is to read whatever you can on this site about Plan A, and then just be the best friend you can be to your H. For me, my H forgave me completely, he was always willing to listen will I needed someone to talk to, and when I didn't want to talk, he just sat with me. He gave me hugs when I needed a hug, he never told me what I should be doing or how I should be feeling, but tried to understand what I was going throuhg (though he really didn't understand it). He never judged me, he never patronized me, he loved me - not for what I did but for who I was.<P>For your H, please let him know, that if I can get through this, he can too. Tell him that he has a loving wife who realizes that he is a special person. That his wife loves him for who he is not what he did. And let him know that this one horrible mistake - yes it was horrible and wrong - does not define who he is or who he can become. There's a couple of quotes I'd like to share from the books I read that stand out in my mind and really helped me to deal with this. Actually, it's kind of a short story, please bear with me, I know this is getting long, but this really helped me at teh beginning.<P>"Dr. Victor Frankl, the bold, courageous Jew who became a prisoner during the Holocaust, endured years of indignity and humilitation by the Nazis before he was liberated. At the beginning of his ordeal, he was marched into a Gestapo courtroom, His captors had taken away his home and family, his cherished freedom, his possessions, even his watch and wedding ring. They had shaved his head and stripped his clothing off his body. . .he stood before the German high command, under the glaring lights being interrogated and falsely accused. He was destitute, a helpless pawn in the hands of brutal, prejudiced, sadistic men. He had nothing. . .[but]<P>Dr. Frankl realized he still had the power to choose his own attitude. No matter what anyone would ever do to him regardless of what the future held for him, the attitude of choice was his to make. Bitterness or forgiveness. To give up or to go on. Hatred or hope. Determination to endure or the paralysis of self-pity. . .life is 10 percent what happens to you and 90 percent how we respond to it.<P>I believe the single-most significant decision I can make on a day-to-day basis is my choice of attitude. It is more important than my past, my education, my bankroll, my successesor failures, fame and pain, what other people think of me or say about me, my circumstances or my position. . .It alone fules my fire or assaults my hope. When my attitudes are right, there's no barrier too high, no valley too deep, no dream too extreme, no challenge to great for me." (Charles Swindoll, Strengthening Your Grip)<P>At the beginning, I too, thought there was no way my H could forgive me, no way my H and I would love each other as we had before, no way I could live with myself, no way I could live with what I had done, and no way I could ever feel good about myself again. But it is possible. I believe in miracles and that's what happened in my life - during recovery.<P>What your H may have done (like what I did) may have been horrible, but this one act does not define his life. He can learn and grow from this experience - not only mentally and maritally, but spiritually as well. I know I did.<P>There is no way I would wish this experience on my worst enemy, but throughout the past year I have developed a new appreciation for my H, my marriage, and I have come (as hard as it is to say) to finally forgive myself. I will never be able to forget what happened - for the shear effect it had on me, my H and my marriage - but I have learned so much about myself, about my marriage - truly, when I look back on the experience, it seems like a horrible nightmare that happened to someone else - someone else's marriage. My H and I are both a lot different now, and our marriage is a lot healthier now - so really, in essence, it was a nightmare that happened to someone else.<P>As I mentioned, I had a lot of doubts, alot of fears, a lot (A LOT) of self-pity and self-loathing - but I made a deal with myself, to try and give it a year to see if things got any better. Well, it's been a tough year, but I have a greater appreciation for my marriage and for my H, and for my life. Anything is possible if you just decide to try. And the journey of a thousand miles begins with just one step.<P>Things may really stink right now, but they won't stink forever. You can either sink or swim. I had to take a few lessons along the way, but ultimately I chose to swim. Please send him my encouragement, and let him know that I know exactly how he is feeling right now - and probably even worse on a couple of very lonely days - but it does get better, it can get better if you just hang in there and try.<P>

Breathe in breathe out..ahhh<P>Oniblade ~ I'm sorry, I didn't mean to lash out at you.<P>Orchid ~ Thank you!!! You know just what to say *HUGS* <P>SKM ~ WOW!! Don't apologize for the long post, it helps a lot. I'll be giving these to my H and doing searches. <P>I'm glad I love to read because I have A LOT of reading ahead of me <P>

hey no prob. I understand you're a bit sensitive about a lot going on and all. totally my fault. I do have a propensity to say what's on my mind and be a tad blunt and insensitive about things. But I find people (in most cases) prefer things to be more truthful than sugar-coated.<BR>there could be more to say but at risk of breaking friendships among myself and others, I will not.<BR>However, if you get bored and wish to know more:<P>oniblade@yahoo.com

LostNco,<BR>The main thing that I did was before I told my wife (SoDuped) was that I had already made the decision that I wanted it (our marriage) and that I would do WHATEVER it took to make it work. <BR>Understand that you caught your husband, and forced him to tell you about the affair before he was ready. My wife know something wasn't right when she got the call from the other woman and had 3 days to process that before I had the balls to tell her about it and be willing to answer all the questions that came with me telling her. <BR>I needed those 3 days to think about what I wanted to say and how I wanted to say it...all the while knowing how much it was going to hurt and destroy my wife's world once she knew.<BR>What helped me to feel better was the talking and the acknowledgement from my wife that she knew I was sincere in the fact that I wanted to work this out. It's a rollercoaster ride for both parties and there are peaks and valleys all over the place.<BR>The other big thing that helped was getting into a counselor quick, and both of us accepting that there was more than just the affair wrong with our marriage. With the amount of emotion and uncertainty that was present the first night after I told her the questions that she asked as much as they hurt felt good to answer because it started the healing process instantly just to be able to explain why and how this had happened. It went as far as us ending up in bed, and this reinforced my belief that my wife was willing to try and work this out. I know her reasons were different, but that's how I felt about it at the time. <BR>Today we're still in counseling and the rollercoaster is still going strong with everything going on I don't regret my decision for a heartbeat. The woman I'm with is a beautiful, beautiful person and I don't want to lose her to some ska** that isn't worth the time of day. That's something else I had to come to terms with in my own head and know where my heart was because the other woman couldn't ever be able to hold a candle to my wife. <BR>I hope this helps, and is what your looking for.<BR>If you ever have any questions for me, please post...(Wanting it to work).<P>PS...It might help your husband to write out what love means to him and what committment means to him - our counselor asked me to do that and it helped me alot.<P>-Wanting it to work

Hey LostNco,<P> I'm the WS to Wounded2673, interesting stuff you post and lots of good advice here. From my own point of view, when I finally started to see past the FOG our recovery really started to go along on the right path. At D-Day I knew I wanted my marriage back but was filled with emotions that I couldn't get straight in my head, I felt guilty, shame, anger, hurt, selfish, resentful, among other feelings and held these feelings in, well most of them. Our recovery D-Day was Aug. 20th but real recovery didn't start till Nov. 10th. I was still in contact with OW till that date. What I've learned since that day and would like to pass to both you and your H is Honesty is nessacary, and your recovery and your H's recovery, while being on different paths are part of the same recovery if you so wish, there is no timetable for this process, take time, Love each other and if you work for it, it will work....UnB

Wanting it to work and Unbelievable ~<P>Thank you for the replies. This helps me out a lot. I have sent the link to my H asking him to read all of the responses. I don't know how many hours I have spent reading EVERY single article by the Harley's and reading the posts. I am so thankful for all of the information that is here. As I have said before, I don't know where I'd be without MB and all the wonderful people here.<P>Thank you all for your help, insight, support and friendship. <P>When I read NB post to the old timers I saw what she was saying. I did read before I posted and I do sometimes forget the MB principals.<P>Again, thank you all for everything, you are a god send.

I LIKE CHEESE!<p>[This message has been edited by oniblade (edited April 14, 2001).]

Oniblade ~<P>Excuse me?? Who are you???????

I'm BATMAN!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LostNco:<BR><B>To all WS, I am in need of your assistance. D-Day for me was this Tuesday. My H says he can't live with the pain he has caused me. He's blown out my flame, destroyed me and our marriage. H said MB states one person survives and goes on, but what about the other. Meaning the WS, how do they go on with what they have done. H says he can't look at me anymore. Would any of the WS please post how you got through that part or your experiance. I would like to give it to my H. H is hurting so much right now and I want to help him. Any assistance is appreciated, but I also understand if you can not reply to me. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>LostNCo<P>My first concern was the "blown out flame". A lot of ppl get lost in a relationship. They lose their true self in their daily routines. With work and family it can be hard to make time for yourself to just be you. The answer to save your marriage may be just that. Make yourself go out and have fun and don't always offer up the reason you have been gone. Go get your hair done, buy a new outfit. I know this sounds trivial but it can make a world of difference. Let him see that that flame is not snuffed out. That there is plenty of fire still burning. this may sounds harsh: Right now he probably sees you as something he knows he can have, something he knows everything about, something that is no longer exciting... and the OW is something new something he knows very little about. So let him see that there is more to you than what he knows. If there is anything you've always wanted to do.. do it. Anywhere you've always wanted to go..GO! If he does see that fire again then maybe it will remind him of the good times. <BR>Don't give him the power to "destroy you". I hope this made sense. My heart goes out to you. I hope everything works out for the best.

/me coughs, yeah sorry I was moody awhile ago, no smokes..<p>[This message has been edited by oniblade (edited April 14, 2001).]