I have a question. After finding out about my husband's A I felt it was best for me if he moved out. He is living next door and we probably see more of each other now than before. This arrangement is working for me as I felt I needed to know what I wanted.<P>The problem: My marriage counselor is telling me<BR>1) Do not let him move back into the home for at least 3 to six months. This will insure the changes he needs to make. (I have no problem with this as I feel he has to prove he is committed to the relationship and will do what it takes to make it work)<P>2) Withhold sex: Counselor says if I do this my Husband will have to prove his committment. This makes absolutely no sense to me. <P>Please give me your opinions.

Hmmmm.... Well, based on just what you've posted and not knowing your full story, I would say that to be sexually intimate with a spouse you are living separately from could muddy the waters. If your marriage is unstable enough that you can't live together, then wouldn't it also be to unstable for the deep intimacy of sex?<P>Sex is the most deeply intimate thing between a husband and wife. It isn't a recreational activity or something that we should view as a "right" or "need"....I'm speaking strictly of the act of intercourse here. The emotional bonding and intimacy that come with a healthy sexual relationship are definitely a need in marriage....but the sexual act itself is only a part of how that happens. <P>I would suggest that you pose your questions to your therapist and see what he/she says. There must surely be some legitmate reasoning for it.<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>"They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint." Isaiah 40:31

My thought is if you give into the need, desire, want of sex, your H is getting it for nothing, no commitment on his part towards you or the marriage, the counselor wouldn't tell you to with hold sex if there wasn't a reason to do so.<BR>daybreak

Separation is NOT a solution to marital issues, even in the case of an affair. Read all of the material on this site, and get yourself copies of the books: Surviving an Affair, His Needs Her Needs, and Love Busters. Do emotional needs and lovebusters questionnaires and get into counseling with someone who has a very high success rate with marriages in trouble.<P>Separation will NOT guarantee that he will make any changes at all. If he is no longer in the affair, and he is not physically or verbally abusive of you, then based on what I've read about marriage, separation and divorce, separation COULD actually guarantee divorce.<P>Withholding intimacy in marriage is a bad thing, as well. Read about emotional needs and lovebusters.<P>It troubles me when counselors advocate separation, since all of the statistics show that separation leads to divorce in most cases. What is it you can do to work on a marriage while separated that you cannot do to work on it while you are living together? As far as withholding intimacy, again, if the affair is over and he is not abusive, then I don't see the purpose. YOU need to work on the marriage also - most marriages need a little work - and I cannot see how withholding intimacy will help your cause at all.<P>I would recommend that you do all the reading, at least of the materials on this site, before making any decision regarding intimacy. This is not a power trip, it is an attempt to save and rebuild a marriage.<P>Sorry to be so vehement about this - but I feel strongly about this subject.<BR><P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Thank you for your replies. I have battled with myself over the issue of separation. I needed it for myself. I felt that without it the relationship would not change. You see there were problems before the A with the way my husband felt about his "Space". His need to get away from everything, including me, caused great problems. I had always accepted this need of his, though it caused me internal grief because it had been a way of life for the two of us for so long he saw no reason for it to change. As he stated more than once, "Our relationship, the way it was worked for us, it was special"<P>"Special" to him meant I had always given him the freedom to go as he wanted, many of our married friends did not have this kind of relationship and he was so smug in the fact that he was not P*Whipped.<P>The affair happened nearly 3 hours away from where we live. Yet, he was able to see her 4 to 6 times each month and spent a fortune on phone calls. He was able to do this because of the faith and trust I had always had in him. One of his most used lines was "I value the trust you have in me and I would never do anything to jepardize it", he was saying this while the A was going on.<P>So separation to me was a wake up call to him. I set some ground rules such as not going to "that town" without me. Two weeks after the A he planned on stopping there on his way back from a business trip. He was not taking me seriously. He didn't stop only because a friend was to meet him and without that alibi he felt it in his best interest not to. Personally, I don't think he should have even considered going. It is a ski town and he loves to ski. Too bad, he went up there the entire time of the A with the pretense that he was skiing. <P>He has also said,"I don't know if I can change. You can't change a personality. Well, this separation is allowing me the space to "see" what changes he is willing to make. There is a rally this weekend that he wants to attend. I have to work and it is too far to make the trip in two days. I want to see if he'll go knowing how I feel. <P>Maybe I am handling this the wrong way, but he is a pro at manipulating me and making me feel the things he does is "normal". I know what you are saying about it being dangerous, but to me "It was good the way it was" attitude is more dangerous.<P>Thank you for your comments, they did make sense.

Hi k9love,<P>I remember some of your story, especially from the long thread in Just Found Out, but I'm not sure about all the details. You might consider a reply to the Profiles thread there--it would give people the information to give you a more informed response.<P>Now if I recall, your H of about 20 years had an EA/PA, but you've been working on things since d-day a couple of months back. I'm thinking he has supposedly ended contact. Is that basically correct?<P>Generally the Harley approach is to Plan A and try to meet your spouse's ENs to the extent they will let you, even in the case of an ongoing affair. Separation (Plan B) is called for when their balance in your love bank is in danger of being totally depleted, but is a last resort to preserve some love for your spouse. Generally this occurs in cases of an ongoing affair, hopefully only after some time in a good Plan A.<P>I'm thinking this (the need for Plan B) is not applicable in your case. However, your "separation" is almost not one, and certainly is not a Plan B since you're actually spending more time together. So it may be ok. The time together is the key, as that is what it takes to meet ENs. <P>As for withholding sex, I think the same reasoning would apply. If you're not in Plan B I don't think withholding sex is in order unless you think he is still seeing the OW. If that is the case, given the risk of STDs, the choice is more complex.<P>So, I tend to agree with terri, unless I find out that my understanding of your situation is not correct.<P>Steve

k9l,<P>I think I had my browser window sitting open meaning to post a response and by the time I did so you had posted. Just a few more thoughts.<P>You're right not to trust him. The key is that you can't control him. Only rebuilding your love will save you marriage in the long term. In the short term maybe the "wake up call" was a good thing, but only if you use the opportunity to rebuild love by meeting ENs and avoiding lovebusting. Now there are some people who will try to "have their cake and eat it too", enjoying having attention from both their spouse and the OP.<P>In such a case, eventually Plan B is called for. The time in a good Plan A, perhaps six months (the time differs for each situation), gives such a person memories of their spouse as an attractive alternative to the OP once the affair falls apart.<P>The truth is that your marriage wasn't so great even before his affair. I think you've said this yourself. Maybe it was more his fault than yours, but you're the one who is here, so you're nominated to be the one who figures out how to fix things. The point is that while ground rules to help him be faithful are good if he's willing to follow them, they won't help unless you make your marriage a lot better than it was before.<P>I really think you need more emphasis on Plan A and less on the "tough love" type thinking. Only after at least a few months in a good Plan A should you possibly take a more ultimatum oriented approach. Until then you won't be seen as a good alternative to the OW or some other OW who may come along.<P>Anyway, I can't remember if you've said you have any of the Harley books (<I>Give and Take</I> is a good one to start with), but I'd say click on the Concepts link and read them often. The counselor may or may not be very helpful--the record of most marriage counselors isn't good. The Harleys at least do seem to have a pretty good success rate, so I'd recommend really trying to stick to their concepts unless you have a good reason not to.<P>Hope this makes sense to you and is helpful.<P>Steve

Hi k9love,<P>You've been given many different perspectives already, and I am a great believer in the MB principles. BUT, you know your situation. Sometimes the decision to separate is the right one, especially if the affair is continuing and the betrayed spouse is losing their self-respect as well as love for the cheating spouse.<P>I'm sure that you have been open and honest with your counselor and there are good reasons for the advice he/she is giving you. I agree with HGB's post regarding sex. If you continue to have sex with your husband without a real committment to the marriage on both of your parts, you are taking a huge risk. Emotionally because of the hurt you will surely endure by continuing to invest your feelings into your husband at such an intimate level. Physically because he is probably also having sex regularly with another woman. I do hope that you have been using protection and that you have been tested for STDs.<P>My husband and I are in recovery because he had an affair. I really tried to follow the Harley principles of meeting his needs, etc. To be honest, all it did was allow him to secretly continue the affair. I let him off too easily, with too little real committment on his part because I WANTED to believe what he said and because I followed much of the same advice you have already been given. We never separated, and unfortunately he did not really take me seriously until he was faced with losing not only me, but also his children and his home.<P>Since you have already separated, it would probably be counterproductive to move back in together until you are convinced that your marriage will be better and that your husband will be honest and faithful. I would also advise you to really think about your decision to continue to have sex with him until you are both ready to make a serious committment to a faithful marriage.<P>Best wishes,<P>Peppermint

K9love,<BR>My H & I were separated 7 times, and quite honestly, we handled it every which way.<P>The first time, he wouldn't have sex with me.<P>2-6 Great sex. I took the attitude that he was my H, I was going to meet whatever needs I could, and I wanted him. He passed on a treatable STD/bacterial infection. <P>7 I wouldn't have sex with him, probably much for the reasons your counselor probably is recommending you don't. If he was not willing to live with me, be committed & faithful to me...then he really wasn't my husband in the true sense of the word, was he?<P>I don't really regret having my Plan A include sex during separation, should have used condoms, but my H always denied his affair as it was active, only told me in retrospect & again not when it resumed. Not using condoms was part of my own denial. He doesn't know what he was thinking--not thinking, in his own denial I suppose.<P>I stopped having sex with him because it no longer seemed right or good to me. The emotional fallout was too high a price to pay.<P>Counselors advise. That is their job. This is your life and your decision to make.<P>We have been back together now almost a year. I doubt our recovery hinged on whether or not we had sex. <P>And, if your H does live up to what you want from him during a 3 month separation, you can have some confidence he will continue trustworthy behaviors once he comes home. <P>I'm not really in favor of separation, but the one benefit is that you can work on things when you are together...and Plan A is easier for a couple hours than it is for an entire evening and night and into the am. You can go to your separate "corners" and the stress & tension doesn't get so high.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Whatever is true, honorable, just, pure, lovely, gracious...think about these things." Phil 4:8