I'm not sure if I belong here or not. This has been an ongoing situation with my husband and I. I guess that I should tell you at one point in time I thought my husband was having an affair. I asked, and was told in no uncertain terms that I was wrong! And how could I ever think such a thing. He was angry that I would think he would do such a thing. I won't go into all the why's of why I thought an affair was going on, but needless to say, the feelings that something wasn't quite right has not gone away. I guess what I'm saying is this, that I do believe there was something going on at that time, and still am not comfortable with all the things that went on in our marriage during that time. So sadly, I have been reading here for over a year now, and never had the nerve to post. The real problem I have in my marriage is the continual threats of divorce in my marriage, whenever anything goes wrong. This is not the first time my husband has threatened me with divorce, it's happened so often I can't begin to give you a number. How am I supposed to deal with these continual veiled threats of divorce? Has anyone else on this board dealt with this type of thing. I am tired of living in a rocky marriage. I love my husband dearly and would like nothing more then to live happily ever after. How can I move forward in this relationship? We are in marriage counseling, and the therapist has addressed this issue before, but it doesn't seem to matter, because as soon as an argument starts, shortly thereafter come the threats? Am I being controlled by these threats? I think so, but I would love someone elses input on this situation. Thanks to anyone or everyone who posts, this causes me a tremendous amount of distress and I would love to see it stop.<BR>TAW

Wow! No advice at this time, just know that there are people thinking and praying for you. It sounds like a very difficult situation, but you are still there and that should prove something to you and him on the extent of your love and commitment to the marriage. Good luck

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ThrowAwayWife:<BR><B>How am I supposed to deal with these continual veiled threats of divorce?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Someone else will probably give you a better answer, but my opinion is that you're being emotionally battered and manipulated. It's probably because you've got very low self-esteem and feel that you cannot survive the world without your husband.<P>I think you need to work on your self esteem (there are often community classes for this, btw, because it's so prevalent), then answer your husband, "Ok." one day. Perhaps then he'll realize what he's been doing, but it all starts with yourself.<P>When you get stronger, perhaps you can make your marriage better, but that means a partnership, not a daily browbeating.<P>Bama<P>

Thank you DayBreak and Bama for your replies. Yes I have hung in there, simply because I do love him. Bama you have given me lots of food for thought. Yes, I do have very low self esteem right now! So is this a part of the ongoing cycle? Because I have low self esteem? I truly had thoughts that this was a part of a cycle that my husband is used to, As I am his third wife. Yes, he's been the one that divorces his spouses, and not the other way around. Also, interestingly enough, I came across a letter that he wrote to his last girlfriend of seven years. The letter in essence revealed that this wasn't another threat said in anger, that they were truly finished this time. So my question is, is this something that my husband has always done? I have done what you suggested and told my husband, fine, get a divorce if that's what you want. I told him at that time that I didn't want to live with his threats anymore. I do know this, that I do not want to live my life this way any longer. It sucks! <BR>Thanks you guys, it really helps to get other opinions on this. ~~; )<BR>TAW

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ThrowAwayWife:<BR><B>So is this a part of the ongoing cycle? Because I have low self esteem?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes and yes. Get thee strong!<P>Bama<P>

TAW - I can identify somewhat with your situation. Let me offer my side of my similar situation. Maybe there'll be some benefit for you.<P>During the transition into parenthood, my wife and I became distant. From my perspective, she became 100% mother and 0% wife. I wrote it off as normal early parenting reactions. As our kids got older and entered school, nothing changed. My wife offered no affection, sex disappeared, and we became emotionally separated. We were great parents, but had a dysfunctional marriage. It became more and more frustrating for me. I offered affection, asked for sex, and was very patient - maybe too patient. I felt rejected every day. If I asked her if she loved me, she would say yes, but never without me asking. On occasion, during an argument about something trivial that would escalate, I would ask her if she wanted me to leave. I was asking this out of frustration because I didn't know where I stood with her. I didn't want to leave, I was crying out for communication! Things never got better. Later (after her affair started), she cited these "rages" as abuse. I felt no less abused. It had become a vicious cycle. To this day, I don't think she understands what happened.<P>My point is that your husband may be feeling the same frustration that I felt, although I never threatened divorce. Maybe you've already done this, but find out what's missing for him. Be open minded and listen. I apologize if I've offended you.<P>WAT

Thank you WorthATry I appreciate your response. I am always very affectionate with my husband. I tell him that I love him daily. He never wants for my attention ever. If anything one of the great things we have going for us is that we both love to snuggle, and we still have great sex. Our communication could certainly stand to improve. I truly believe part of the problem is his anger. When he gets angry he says some very hurtful things to me, and even though I've tried to explain that when he says these things, that just because he apologizes...it doesn't make the hurt goes away. It's almost like a scar on my heart at times. Yes, it really cuts that deeply sometimes. I'm not trying to say that I am all innocent. Just trust me when I say this, after a couple of these arguments I have often felt like someone had ripped my guts and heart out. All of this from a man that loves me, and who later apologizes for what he said, but it's not that easy to remember that someone who says he loves you, can cut you so severly with words. I hope this makes sense. We just had a big long disgussion and I took something for my nerves. I always become this big bawling mess. Boy I sound like a real keeper don't I? Yep, that self esteem thing again.<BR>TAW

I wonder if it might be helpful for you to read "Love is Never Enough--How couples can overcome misunderstandings, resolve conflicts, and solve relationship problems through cognitive therapy" by Aaron T. Beck. Dr. Beck is the founder (I believe) of cognitive behavioural therapy and that is tailor-made for addressing problems in how people interact. I wish to God I had read it years ago, when the troubles between my H and me would've been much more easily solvable. As my H and I attempt to recover from the impact of his A. we talk a lot about what went wrong before. He says he tried to tell me how unhappy he was with our marriage (i.e. that his needs weren't being met), but I swear all that came across was that he was fed up with life in general and me in particular. And I thought I communicated to him how unloved and unappreciated I felt, but it apparently came across as demands and badgering. What I wish we had known at the time was that we were in a vicious cycle of miscommunication--most conversations turned into battles as we eached stepped into our accustomed roles, responding more to what we were feeling about each other than to what was actually being said. It had gotten to the point of threats of divorce on both our parts...and believe me, now that we've actually contemplated life without each other, we know we didn't ever really mean that. The "divorce" threat can be manipulative, but it can also be a way of saying "I'm giving up, I can't get through to you, etc." The nice thing about the cog. behav. approach is that it can be effective for even just one of the parties involved to "change the dance" as they say...you step back and think about your assumptions when the other person says something that upsets you, think about how it makes you feel, but then choose how you want to act/respond. I don't think I'm explaining it very well, but it works! You gain control of your own responses and thereby force the old patterns to be broken...it just may result in a change in how your H responds when he is angry. I hope it helps. octavia99

TAW-<P>My first marriage lasted 13 1/2 years. I got married three weeks after I turned 18-BIG HUGE MISTAKE.<P>My ex always, I mean ALWAYS threatened to leave me. And many weekends he did. That way he was able to go out on his drinking binges without feeling guilty because "I made him mad again".<P>I believe it became a habit for him to say and do this!<P>One day I just stopped caring.............it got to be way too much work. The man had no interest in trying.<P>At least you have low self esteem-I had NONE-zip-000000000 percent!<P>He stripped any I did have in the beginning away with his "head game playing". And with two small kids and pets and all I was "too afraid" of what my future might hold if he ever left for good.<P>One day I had enough. And I felt guilty living with him knowing I no longer cared.<P>So I left.<P>And I never went back.<P>And I am happy now.<P>Good luck!!!!<P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."<p>[This message has been edited by heartache (edited April 16, 2001).]

TAW,<P>What a sad name, I'm sorry you feel that way .<P>It sounds like you're doing a lot of good things and it does sound like your H has some real problems. Still, I want encourage you to read all the concepts on the main site (see the "Concepts" link near the top of the page) if you have not done so. I say that because I have the impression that many times people spend too much time on the forum and not enough reading the articles and books. Make sure you have educated yourself about you H's ENs and are meeting the right ones before you conclude that you should give up.<P>Does your therapist support the use of Harley's principles? It sounds like you're trying really hard but are almost out of emotional reserves; I'd hate to have you squander your remaining reserves on things that won't work.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B><BR>When he gets angry he says some very hurtful things to me, and even though I've tried to explain that when he says these things, that just because he apologizes...it doesn't make the hurt goes away. It's almost like a scar on my heart at times. Yes, it really cuts that deeply sometimes.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><BR>I said almost the same thing to my wife many times. She had a very verbally and sometimes physically abusive FOO. After her affair she told me that she had always "known" that I'd leave her someday for a younger woman, since men aged more gracefully than women. I'd never even thought such a thing, but that was her thinking. Maybe your H feels the same way and is thinking of a preemptive strike.<P>The point here is that in addition to MB principles you may indeed need to have him address FOO issues. Some of this may be his temperament, but some may be FOO related, and will need to be addressed to solve your marital problems. The good thing is that if he can address any FOO issues he can change.<P>I'm sorry that I don't have any great ideas for quick progress; I do hope that you find some help.<P>Steve

Dear TAW,<P>The information in the MB site is for all marriages. We can always improve in our relationships. There are a variety of books that are helpful here (ie: His nees/Her needs, Giver/Takers, etc.). Also the personal questionnaires help each spouse see what they can do and what they can show their spouse they need to build a better marriage. <P>If your husband is agreeable to counseling, maybe a phone session with the Harley's may be helpful. When you can read the information here that shows introductions to the various topics. You will be able to tell in a short while, what topics are pertinent to your situation. <P>There is a lot of anger and resentment that is coming out in your marriage, address the issues as soon as possible to work on a recovery plan. The interests of your family is of primary importance. <P>I welcome you to this site and wish the best in working on bettering your marriage. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.

Thanks Everyone for all of your suggestions. I spent yesterday rereading His Needs/Her Needs by Harley. The ironic thing is I bought this book years ago when I was in my first marriage. Sad huh. Thanks for the book suggestions, I will be book shopping when I'm done posting here. Yesterday was a difficult day. I had a hard time not being angry towards my husband for all the crappy things he said to me the day before. I also found myself crying for no reason. Well, it was for a reason, some of the things he said to me hurt like hell. I don't want to carry this anger and hurt around, but yet, I'm not sure how to get rid of it. I really would have loved to talked to my husband about how much I was hurting, but the sad fact is I was afraid to, afraid that my trying to discuss things with him would have turned into an argument. I guess the thing that I worry about most is, that eventually I won't care anymore. That I will begin to shut down emotionally with my husband. It isn't what I want, but that's what I'm afraid of. I hope that I'm making sense here, as I'm not always very good at getting my point across. <BR>Thanks again everyone, I've been blown away by all of your caring responses. I wish I would have posted here sooner.<BR>Take care of you. Oh and my name is sad isnt'it, but it's what I've told my husband numerous times...that I feel like a throw away wife. <BR>TAW

Heartache I just reread your post this is my greatest fear, that one day I will stop caring. <BR>TAW<P><BR>

TAW,<P>First of all please change your screen name it hurts me just to think that someone is in such pain that they feel they do not matter. GOD DOES NOT MAKE GARBAGE!!!<P>I was just like your husband, I continually told my W, "if you want act single then just be single" Until one day she said okay that is what I want now. OMG did that hurt. I am trying to rebuilb my marriage now. I told her this over and over because it was easier than telling her my real feelings, I was afriad she would stop loving me if she knew that at times I felt less than, like I did not deserve someone as good as her. I was scared mostly. Well I am alone and she might just file for divorce. But I am changing my behaviours for me because I am the only one that can break the cycle. I wish you all the happiness you deserve. You might just want to start praying for your H to realize what he has before it is gone. GOD BLESS<P>

Hi RS, thanks for your reply. I can't change my name just yet, as it really is how I feel. Thanks for sharing your story with me, congrats on making the changes for yourself. I've been doing a lot of soul searching, and some of it has been painful. I'm trying to decide how I'm supposed to live my life right now, as a married woman or as a single woman? You see, I'm not sure which direction to take, as I'm never sure from one week to the next if this marriage is going to survive. I find I'm very sad today, and I'm sure a part of this is because I don't know how to plan my life. How do I make plans for my future, do I plan it as if I'm going to be single? I have been contemplating purchasing a new car, and even deciding this has been next to impossible. Do I plan a car payment with being single in mind, or do I plan this as a married woman? You see, something as simple as this turns into a major headache. <BR>I love my husband dearly, and cannot imagine my life without him. Does anyone else understand what I'm trying to say here? How do I go about my daily life? How should I make plans for my future? I'm so confused and so hurt I'm unsure of where to turn anymore. <BR>TAW

TAW,<P>Try this live just for today. Do not worry about yesterday you can not fix it and tomorrow is not even here yet. TODAY ONE DAY AT A TIME. You are still married so try to think in a mrried frame of mind<BR>

HI there again TAW-<P>I am sorry for making you afraid by what I said. That wasn't my intention.<P>Sadly, I truly believe I could have done everything on Earth and still not made a single change in my ex's behavior towards me, our marriage, our children, anything. For this reason I am glad for my sake that I was able to stop caring. The alternative for me would have been more years of his head games and partying.<P>My wish in life as for a person to love me as much as I love them. I finally have this.<P>Hang in there and I will send you positive vibes for some good and happy results <P><P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."