I am moving into a studio apt. this weekend. Married 8yrs, no kids, very unhappy, husband depressed and emotionally repressed, lack of intimacy (including but not limited to sex), periods of excessive drinking, progressive codependency on my part. I've wanted out for a while and had an affair last year (April - July) when I decided that it was time to end my marriage (now I know how wrong that was). We tried to work on things and they got better for a while but soon gravitated back to pre-ema status. I can't do this again. <P>I'm not sure whether to leave the door open for reconciliation or begin divorce proceedings after I'm settled in. <P>How many people here have split (moved apart) and then reconciled? What part did the moving out play? Did it make reconciliation harder or easier? Any info would be greatly appreciated.<BR>

Ava,<P>I am both encouraged and discouraged by the news you are moving out.<P>encouraged by the idea that you are setting boundries for appropriate behavior and taking dramatic steps to protect those boundries.<P>as for moving out and back in, the only thing i will say is that this should be the last time you do it.<P>i dont intend for that to mean that you should file for divorce, i intend for that to mean that you should have an extreamly high level of confidence that you will be able to have a successful reconciliation before you return. a serious plan of action that is under way and has promise of continuing after you return.<P>i have seen many couples split and return some with success and some without, i can tell you for certain that the ones who left and came back and left and came back always failed. the ones where it was clear that this was it. time to make it happen or not have been successful.<P>be honest about what you need, be honest about what your willing and able to give, and be calm, very calm. do not rush or stall take steps as they come be deliberate, consistant, and decisive.<P>remember that this man gave to you all you needed at one point in your life, what was that like, what would it take to return to that place, and are you willing to do it?<BR><P>------------------<BR>in loving service<BR>chaz

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chazbutler:<BR><B>remember that this man gave to you all you needed at one point in your life, what was that like, what would it take to return to that place, and are you willing to do it?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>See Chaz, I don't think he ever really did. He told me I gave him all that he needed and I was impressed with how important I was to him. I felt valued. I don't think I ever really even thought about what I needed beyond that. I mean, he's a respectable person and all but I think my biggest attraction to him was how much he said he needed me in his life. I think we thought we were eachothers answer to happiness but neither one of us looked at what we needed for and from ourselves. And when the newness and excitement of it wore off, he realized that I wasn't the answer to his happiness. He became increasingly depressed and withdrawn and I no longer felt special to him or valuable. Since having an affair and really looking at the marriage and myself, I think now that we have never really been a good match.<P>But what nags at me is that I do still care for him and wish that we could be better suited for eachother. I know that a good marriage doesn't just happen, it takes hard work. But I feel like we have already tried and failed. I am moving out as a response to that failure, not in order to bring him to some point of realization that my affair was unable to bring him to.<P>I think I already know the answer to my question, but I thought I'd throw it out to the board just in case there were dynamics regarding this situation that I may not have been aware of. Thanks for your reply. It makes a lot of sense.<p>[This message has been edited by Ava (edited April 17, 2001).]

Hi Ava,<P>In response to your concern. This board welcomes all who are sincere in their efforts on wanting to work on their marriage &/or persons looking for some direction to themselves & their spouses. Everyone are entitled to their own opinions and learn from each other. <P>For your question, I believe that once a mate moves out, it makes it more difficult to restore the marriage. My H moved out 12/31/00 and says he wants to return. The issues now are that he still has feelings for OW but wants his family back in his life, is in deep financial debt as a result of his changed lifestyle (w/OW and moving out - lives on his own and tried to stay with OW but she is a bit much to live with, wants to be Mrs. _____ without the paperwork) and he is scared he will disappoint us again. <P>So am I. Also he may have developed habits out on his own that are not suited to his family. While that may not be a major concern, it is something in the back of my mind. He has sort of lived with OW (spent 5 nights off/on at her home and on a 3 days vacation) and not sure what sort of habits he has picked up from her. H already developed a vulgar mouth thanks to her large foul vocabulary. I do not want that type of influence on our young child. <P>So the chances are less than those who remain at home. On the other hand, it is not impossible. So a lot depends on the attitude of the parties involved. Sounds like there is a lot of damage control that needs to be fixed in your marriage. Like mine, we both have things to work on. I have read a lot, took the questionnaires here on this site, had a counseling session with Steve Harley, also went to a marriage counselor and posted my questions here. I have been given a lot of food for thought and made application where and when I could. <P>Before I could help H, I needed to help myself. Armed with good information, I shared with H (mostly via e-mails) what I could from posts and things I have read. This seemed to help. OW has a strong grip on H. She pulls hard and he often succumbs to her wishes. <P>I choose not to fight that pull. I am waiting for H to decide what to do and them our family will move on. The waiting time is dwindling down to the end of this month. So soon things will happen. We are preparing for the worst. No that is not completely true. The worst is not knowing and being kept in the fog. <P>I hope some of the tools I listed above will be helpful to you. I read everything on this site and created a binder for my H to read. It took about 3 hours to print and put that binder together. My H has low self-esteem and constantly needs encouragement. Sometimes, H's don't always appreciate what the wives have to say, even if it is the same as someone else. That is what makes it hard for us. In my case, H even fights me even then he knows I am right. It is just his defense mechanism automatically coming up. <P>I hope this helps. Please keep posting here. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.<P> <P><BR>

Ava,<P>I'm sorry to hear of your dilemma. The splinters on the fence can start to hurt after a while. I know from experience...<P>If you'll go to the home page, click on the Q&A section, and when that screen comes up, look in the lefthand column for Harley's current article "Choosing the right one to marry"...he uses three inquiries to respond to...in the 2nd letter he has 5 criteria for judging whether a relationship has a chance of surviving, either in the marriage phase or the dating phase. If nothing else, it can help you feel grounded about the decision you make. [ok, I maybe should have said 5 important areas where the difficulties in relationships arise. Once in a marriage, I DO believe we can still examine these areas for significant roots to our problems. If we are totally in the dark about why everything sort of slipped away, these 5 areas can help give us answers and something to work on either in our current relationship or ones to come]. <P>There is a new similar book out that I've just picked up at Borders bookstore, "Should we stay together?" by Jeffry Larson. Like Harley, he uses criteria [scientifically validated over half a century from an exhaustive search of the published research in the field] about whether a relationship is worth moving forward with or not [maybe I should say "how easy or difficult the relationship will be". It's up to the two individuals whether they want to pursue it or not] Sometimes he admits that for some couples it is [may be] best just to go their separate ways.<P>Best to you.... <p>[This message has been edited by Mayo (edited April 17, 2001).]

Mayo:<P>What Dr. Harley posted in that letter was five areas in which divergent views can make the POJA difficult to implement, and thereby making a relationship a challenge.<P>He's also applying this in the dating phase, not as a yardstick for "the marriage has no chance" should you be married to someone who has a conflict in one of those areas.<P>Ava: if you want reconciliation, you need to pursue it. Counseling with the Harley's would be a good first step. If you're going to be lukewarm about it, you get the expected lack of results.

Ava,<P>Check out posts by Lor(Lor) -- she reconciled with her H after seven (yep, I'm pretty sure it was 7) seperations!!<P>Do a search using her name as I've written it: Lor(Lor).<P>Best wishes.<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

<B>ava Said: " I dont think I ever did" </B><P>ok one thing that i caught myself doing was re-writing the past to justify my current feelings. i am confident that i said some extrodinarily bad things about why i ever married my wife one example was that "She loved me and i needed to escape from the life if was living" and another was that "She was my 100th sexual partner so she won the prize, i mean i had to stop somewhere, right?" <P>and i know that when i said those things they seemed to be the complete truth, and i believed them. in reflection however i was bending the truth to fit how i felt then, and denying what i felt to avoid my own hurt.<P>so take heart and take your time, youve got a lot invested in this now, another moment of time to try another angle together or apart is small in comparison. <P>youve got a lot of time to make the decision to make your seperation permanent, but a narrow window to save the marriage, part of saving the marriage is as has already been pointed out, deciding that saving it is exactly what you will do.<P><P>------------------<BR>in loving service<BR>chaz

Ava:<P>My husband moved out three times during the summer/fall of '99. We are now in our second year of recovery, and we are doing great! I guess I want to be counted on the side that separation isn't final unless you want it to be. I know that the last time he left, I was a stronger person and I stood up to the OW. She backed off and H started seeing her for who she really was, a user who didn't really want to fight for him.<P>There were many late night calls, where we would talk and cry together. I don't know if we would have gotten to that point if H hadn't left.

K,<P>I don't mean to, but I step on toes all the time. Sorry. <BR> <BR>I edited my previous comments to help clarify what I meant. No offense taken. I found some things in those writings that I feel are real pertinent to my own situation. Zeroing in on those areas, I feel will help me even WITHIN a marriage.<BR> <BR>I was hoping that Ava would be able to feel like she could have some reasons to her sadness right now. I sensed that she may have felt like she was just floating with few concrete reasons for her situation. <P>Mayo

Reading your post this morning struck me as so incredibly odd. After coming here reading for 10 months now, this is the first time I felt compelled to respond to someone. I could have written your post myself. It was so similar it was eerie. I am working on arrangements for an apartment now. I have been married 5 years, together 14, no kids, very unhappy, husband definitely emotionally repressed and extreme bouts of excessive drinking and progressing codependency on my part. I've also wanted out for a while and had an affair last year same time frame when I also decided I couldn't take it anymore and desperately searched for someone to ease my pain and I too have learned that is not the way to go about ending a marriage. Things got better for awhile, I worked hard on mending the damage that my affair had done and gradually things have drifted back to pre-ema status. I, too, have serious reservations about any reconciliation once I make this break and when to file for divorce. I feel like I have tried everything and I'm so,so tired of the whole thing. I hope that you and I can both find some peace with our decisions. I wish you luck.