So you think my posts are a joke. THANK YOU! I come for support I get your criticism. I will no longer be able to visit this site because of you.<P>Imagine what it's like to come to work and the first thing you do is visit this site only to read a discouraging post like yours, BonnieSept.<P>I hope God gives you what you so richly deserve.

Sing, please do not let the opinion of one person cloud your opinion of this entire forum. You are in a horrible position and need support to help you get through it. Many of us have been through very similar issues and there is some very valuable insight that we can provide. Please, please continue to post.<P>My heart goes out to you---please let us continue to help you through this.....

<B>singagain -</B>OK, don't get your underwear in a wad. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I come for support<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Don't you get support from others here? <B>One</B> person comes across as critical and you are ready to fly the coop? I guess the question is begged, are you really looking for support or just for <I>validation</I>? Big difference!!!<P>I have been criticized and have had posts criticized(as this one probably will be). Believe it or not, many of the criticisms have been well placed. I didn't just let them hurt my feelings and then run away. Had to look at them carefully and find the truth that was sometimes hidden there.<P>I have read a lot of BonnieSept's posts and replies. She pretty much just says what's on her mind. She isn't trying intentionally to hurt anyone and she does have a unique perspective. You don't have to agree, just look at her posts as an opportunity for personal growth for you. Gary Zukov(Seat of the Soul) says that it's not nearly so important how others treat you, but how you react to that treatment. How true that is.<P>If you are that thin-skinned, you are going to have major problems putting your marriage back together. My recommendation to you is that you take a deep breath, buck up and stay a while to absorb the good advice you get here.<P>--DeWayne--

singagain:<P>DeWayne says...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I have been criticized...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It's completely true... I do it to him all the time... <P>If you come back, we'll try to give you some help in implementing a good Plan A, and discuss when to transition to Plan B. I like what you posted (and was in a similar position with my wife---and we're reconciled), and I would be happy to discuss what strategies I used.<P>

Don't worry, I'll be here. Reading. But I won't be able to tell anyone my story anymore. Thin-skinned, hardly or I might have buckled sooner. I believe in doing everything I can to save a marriage and if I'm going against the Harley's principles then maybe I shouldn't be here.<P>And anyone who tells me I'm making a mockery of God's institution of marriage.... well thank you. But my God says to wait upon the Lord.<P>By the way, I have more self-respect now than I had before this affair, which is one reason the affair probably started.<P>So if you think I picking on BonnieSept, well maybe, I read some old posts of hers, and she seems to be a little bitter because her ex wants nothing to do with her or her kids. Yes I'd be bitter too, but is that any reason to not try to be compasionate and tell people their posts are a joke?<P>You don't need to hear my story. I will pray for all of you that you don't find yourself in the "joke" of a mess that I'm in.

Sing,<P> Please stay, don't let anyone chase you away. I am so sorry for the pain you are in. You just happen to love your husband, and there is no law against that. <P> Maybe Bonniesept has never been betrayed. I think she is a WS married to another WS.<P><BR> {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{SING}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>------------------<BR>Deb

singagain,<P>Youf situation is a most exceptional one.<P>To Plan A... and..<BR>to have your H stay at home... while the affair is on<BR>to have your children exposed... supposedly in some way to the OW<BR><B>is not uncommon</B>!<P>It just the <B>duration</B> that is so exceptional.<P>For 4 months my W lived with me... while she was still seeing he OM!...<BR>...but because I was honest in stating my displeasure in the situation...<BR>...in how she was hurting the children (morally)...<BR>...in how she was moving more into the fog...<BR>...in how she was building a stronger relationship with the OM...<BR>...in how she made it clear that she was not working toward reconciliation...<BR>I don't know how long I could have gone on with it...<BR>...without one of us moving out...<BR>...in my case... she moved out.<P>It <B>seems</B> your H is acting like my W was....<BR>...and there is no real movement toward reconciliation.<BR>How long can you coverup your feelings...<BR>... of discount the drain of your Love Bank for him.<BR>How long can you discount the impact on your children... or other family members...<BR>How long can honesty... be enough... and disavow the need for skill building... meeting needs... avoiding LBs... spending time.<P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>The Four Rules for a Successful Marriage</A>... are also referred to as...<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>Four rules to guide marital recovery</A> (on page 87 of SAA)<BR><OL TYPE=1> <BR><LI> <B><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3902_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>The Rule of Protection:</A></B> Avoid being the cause of your spouse's unhappiness.<BR><LI> <B><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3901_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>The Rule of Care:</A></B> Meet your spouse's most important <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A>.<BR><LI> <B><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3904_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>The Rule of Time:</A></B> Take time to give your spouse undivided attention.<BR><LI> <B><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3903_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>The Rule of Honesty:</A></B> Be totally open and honest with your spouse.<BR></OL> <P>Most people here are proud of people who can do a long Plan A...<BR>...I tried my best for 16+ months... mostly during the separation.<BR>To live together... for so long... and acknowledge the continuance of the affair... and not let him know your displeasure...<BR>...is what so confuses us all.<P>It's disheartening to people to see the suffering... we feel you must be having.<P>Emotions being what they are... that disheartening... sometimes isn't expressed as well as it could be.<P>I think almost <B>everyone</B> who responded to your post...<BR>...feels the same way... (as BonnieSept)..<BR>...but may have expressed themselves differently...<P>Please know we care...<BR>Our suggestions may not come off as gentle... forgive us.<P> <P>Jim

Oh come on singagain, I wasn't picking on you. To be honest I get angry for you when I see what your husband is doing. It's just really, really wrong for him to literally flaunt his lover in your face. Then, the fact that he bought HER a Mother's day present really got my blood boiling. I reacted to you like I would my daughter if her husband were treating her that way. To be honest I'd want to knock her upside the head with some sense. He is slowly and emotionally killing you. I think Plan A is a fantastic concept if the WS is willing to really try in their marriage and is truly remorseful. I also believe that some of them need a swift kick in the butt to get them off of the fence. I believe your husband is one of them. What is the incentive for him to work on his marriage? If allowed he could carry on with two women forever! Ya know, I had a close friend who found out her husband was cheating. She immediately forgave him. A few months later she later found out he was cheating again! She told him that was enough and he was out. Boy reality smacked him right up side the head! Out, looking in and he didn't like that view at all. He did the begging, crying to come back and she told him that she would not share her husband and that she had enough. She got an attorney and started giving him a hard look of what divorce could do to him. That was the point it took for him to really decide that his marriage was worth working on. I remember my attorney telling me that sometimes it takes a good look at divorce to snap people out of it. I just become so frustrated when I see someone being a door mat. I wish I could step inside their body for 5 minutes and really let that cheating spouse have it. I think you can really learn from this board and I know that it was not just me that told you that you've been Plan Aing way too long and that your husband is taking advantage of you. A lot of times the person on the outside of the problems can see much more clearly! Now, if your daughter was acting like you are with her cheating hubby would you tell her too keep "sharing" until he decides what he wants?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by singagain:<BR><B>Don't worry, I'll be here. Reading. But I won't be able to tell anyone my story anymore. Thin-skinned, hardly or I might have buckled sooner. I believe in doing everything I can to save a marriage and if I'm going against the Harley's principles then maybe I shouldn't be here.<P>And anyone who tells me I'm making a mockery of God's institution of marriage.... well thank you. But my God says to wait upon the Lord.<P>By the way, I have more self-respect now than I had before this affair, which is one reason the affair probably started.<P>So if you think I picking on BonnieSept, well maybe, I read some old posts of hers, and she seems to be a little bitter because her ex wants nothing to do with her or her kids. Yes I'd be bitter too, but is that any reason to not try to be compasionate and tell people their posts are a joke?<P>You don't need to hear my story. I will pray for all of you that you don't find yourself in the "joke" of a mess that I'm in.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>singagain;<BR>I don't know your story, but I'm glad to see that your're back!<BR>I can be senative as well, in fact my WS tells me that all the time -- I have read that when a person is challenged on how they treat you & they respond by saying that your're too sensitive I understand that can be sign of an abusive person. <BR>I agree that we should sometimes have a stronger sense of self worth & not be effected as much by others; but I also agree that words can be very hurtful & that more people should take some effort to deliver their perspective in a tactful manner! I think we should take some responibility with how we come across to others & not always assume the other person has to "Buck Up" -- to me this is a self-centered, immature approach to life.<P>Peace be with you!<BR>

Singagain,<P>I know just what you mean, her posts usually get my dander up too. There are some other poeple that also only seem to post to post negative things and whos main advice is dump the jerk. After you have been here longer you will realize who they are and just let it roll off you. There are alot of people her with alot of opinions, you will always have to read and deceide what is best for you.<P>Please stick around. Keep posting, I'll bet BonnieSept wont post to you any more after this post anyway.<BR>Lora

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Heartpain:<BR><B>[b]singagain -</B>OK, don't get your underwear in a wad. <BR>Heartpain,<BR>Now that is truely a funny saying!<BR>HH

Singagain<BR>I believe if I was in your situation I might very likely still be plan Aing also. We all help each other by posting here although we can't agree with everyone. I found your posts very interesting and I hope you continue to post so I can continue to learn from you. I do not think your H will loose respect for you-ask some of the WS in this forum. I think he will gain more respect. Plan A is about you so only you know when it will be time to make a change.

Please stay, and please post.<P>My gosh, I won't even go into what's been said to me!! I am smiling now, but some of it hurt like hell!!!<P>And yeah, I complain about it a bit... but bottom line -- this is MY life I'm talking about, and although people are certainly entitled to their opinions, it's ME I have to look at when I brush my teeth in the morning!!<P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BonnieSept:<BR><B>Oh come on singagain, I wasn't picking on you. To be honest I get angry for you when I see what your husband is doing. It's just really, really wrong for him to literally flaunt his lover in your face. Then, the fact that he bought HER a Mother's day present really got my blood boiling. I reacted to you like I would my daughter if her husband were treating her that way. To be honest I'd want to knock her upside the head with some sense. He is slowly and emotionally killing you. I think Plan A is a fantastic concept if the WS is willing to really try in their marriage and is truly remorseful. I also believe that some of them need a swift kick in the butt to get them off of the fence. I believe your husband is one of them. What is the incentive for him to work on his marriage? If allowed he could carry on with two women forever! Ya know, I had a close friend who found out her husband was cheating. She immediately forgave him. A few months later she later found out he was cheating again! She told him that was enough and he was out. Boy reality smacked him right up side the head! Out, looking in and he didn't like that view at all. He did the begging, crying to come back and she told him that she would not share her husband and that she had enough. She got an attorney and started giving him a hard look of what divorce could do to him. That was the point it took for him to really decide that his marriage was worth working on. I remember my attorney telling me that sometimes it takes a good look at divorce to snap people out of it. I just become so frustrated when I see someone being a door mat. I wish I could step inside their body for 5 minutes and really let that cheating spouse have it. I think you can really learn from this board and I know that it was not just me that told you that you've been Plan Aing way too long and that your husband is taking advantage of you. A lot of times the person on the outside of the problems can see much more clearly! Now, if your daughter was acting like you are with her cheating hubby would you tell her too keep "sharing" until he decides what he wants?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>BonnieSept<BR>Just wanted to say that from what I see here, I agree with your message.<BR>I may be banned from this place & people may think I work for James Dobson, but again I think his book "Love Must Be Tough" has a lot of merrit, particularily when the WS has not shown the signs you described.<BR>As a BS I think it is important we not become the "Doormat" -- <BR>Singagain -- this of course does not mean we have to become little Bobby Knights and throw chairs -- this is where perhaps some Plan A tactics are important --- In case you're not familar with the book, it is designed to win the WS back -- not just throw them out -- But sometime when we try to hang on too tightly, so to speak, the WS feels Trapped & this creates LBers -- set them free & they don't feel trapped & if it's meant to be, they'll come back! If not, they weren't ours to begin with.<BR>Perhaps these little disagreement are good to flush out some issues!<BR>Peace be with all!<BR>HH <P>

Please don't leave. Heaven knows I would give a lot to have my H at home, even if he were still seeing the OW. Horrible as it was when he was in the affair (unbeknownst to me) and still at home, the last two years since he left have been a thousand times worse. <P>How long you Plan A is your choice and only yours.

Sing,<P> My H was home during his A,too. It was a horrible experience. I discovered it March 18th 2000. I was shocked and devestated. We had been married for 19 years. He actually told me that they had a May 5th deadline for her to decide if she was leaving her "man" for my H. My H already decided. Sure, he would leave me. <P> Well throughout the period my H was cold, rewrote history, exagerated our problems, watched me cry, told me how great she was, and how great I wasn't. He kept it up until the May 5th deadline, and she said no. Instant recovery!!!!!!!!! Of course they stayed in secret contact until Oct, when I again found out!!! I did leave him then. He finally did stop talking to her, but she also does not want to talk to my H. She is afraid I will tell her "man" about her and my H affair. So if anyone should leave the "jerk" I should have, because he certainly was. But darn if I don't love my H,too.<P> So I <P>------------------<BR>Deb

<B>Hurrian Hoosier -</B> Yeah, it was pretty funny coming from someone who is <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>self-centered, immature<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Oh my God!! Someone was critical of me!! Must leave the board!! LOL<P><B>singagain - </B>You have me a little confused... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>And anyone who tells me I'm making a mockery of God's institution of marriage<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Where did this come from? I just went thru all of your posts(under the new name) and couldn't find anywhere where someone actually said this.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I hope God gives you what you so richly deserve.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>This is really encouraging and compassionate.<P>I would like to see Bonnie apologize for the "joke" comment. Even I thought it was a little strong, but you are conducting your own little warfare. Why don't the two of you just shake hands and agree to disagree?? I read some of Bonnie's early replies to you and she did really seem to be concerned about you. You really were the one with the first true attack.<P>From your "Has this situation happened.." post:<BR>BonnieSept - "Well it sounds like you have made up your mind. As long as your happy (and I'm sure your husband is) I'd say, why change a thing?"<BR>singagain - "Oh yeah, hey BonnieSept. I thought this was a support group. You are very hostile toward H. It takes two<BR>people to screw up a marriage and it takes two people to have an affair."<P>An earlier reply to the same post:<BR>singagain - "Thanks for your(<I>BonnieSept's</I> honesty. I tend to agree with everything that you say.<P>Please read Lora's reply to you, once, twice, three or four times. Then follow her advice.<P>"it takes two people to have an affair." This is so very true, but what I noticed from your posts is that you tend to describe your H in the best of terms and use lots of unprintable words for the OW. At some point your H needs to be held accountable. If you don't do that he will just do this all again if the situation arises.<P>OK, now for the complement. I think that your ability to Plan A in the face of what you are up against is absolutely phenomenal!! Remember, though, that you yourself said in an earlier post that you might be in a fog, too. I think that most of us BS's find ourselves in the "fog" occasionally. It's probably only natural considering what we go through. Sometimes we do need a "kick in the pants" from someone being a little critical to really look in the mirror and take stock of ourselves.<P>You should do what <B>you</B> think is right, not what some of us tell you to do. We only say these things because we have your best interests at heart and advice comes from our own hearts and personal experiences. None of us can know you deep inside so we aren't always going to tell you what's right for you or what you want to hear.<P><B>k -</B>Don't think I haven't been influenced by your comments to me(in a positive way, of course). You really get me to thinking sometimes and I often come away either agreeing with you or understanding your concern and what you are saying. OK, I ready now, let me have it!!! <P>--DeWayne--<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Heartpain:<BR><B>[b]Hurrian Hoosier -</B> Yeah, it was pretty funny coming from someone who is [QUOTE]self-centered, immature<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>DeWayne,<BR>OK, us sensative types do try to return some painful statements sometimes -- just trying to protect our turf a little I guess.<BR>I must say I was impressed with your reply! You are to be commended for your efforts to explore the facts & to be honest & HELPFUL!<BR>WAY TO GO MAN!<BR>I sensed Bonnie was in her way being sympathetic to Singagain in her last response. I to would like to see a mending of sorts!<BR>HH

Dear Singagain,<P>I have read some of your experience and also some of those posts. Your situation is not unusual. I also answered you in an earlier post. <P>My H is one of those kind of men that will accept his current situation and would continue to hop between 2 beds if I continued to give him that opportunity. I did for the 1st month after d/d. Then for the next 2 months after he moved out. I stopped when I decided to go to plan B and move forward with my life. <P>Oh yes, when that happened, OW who had been pressuring H for a D now was willing to take only a part of H (at her convenience). OW was a bit scared that H was so available. Then H was scared to be with OW soo much. Then H wanted to come back. Then H was scared to come back. Then OW wanted H full time. Then H started waffling. Then H...... the story and the endless circle of frustration goes on. That infamous rollercoaster ride. <P>In the middle of all that chaos, I chose to step off. I set myself up financially and emotionally. I already had my circle of supports. Planned for plan B, notified my supporters what I needed to do (did the laundry bag thing as a need to do for me - was funny had a bit of closure from OW which I needed), then told H, he was on his own. <P>On his own, that was what H thought he wanted. I no longer made myself and my bed/home available for him. I stepped off the rollercoaster. <P>Now, H is in the midst of his own delimea. OW wants him bad, then she doesnt. H wants to come home, then he doesnt. I am on the side (a bit hurt) but not trampled on. I have removed the doormat. I am taking a stand for my self-respect and family. I am taking steps to preserve my diginity. H has asked and been informed of what it will take for him to come home. Right now, he has 'stopped' seeing her but still talks to her on the phone. Not acceptable conditions for returning home. <P>When OW is brought up, it angers me. I have asked H not to disucss her with me as long as he is not at home. I will not deal with his issues when he is not a family member. If he does come back, further dicussions of OW will be as a bad memory, not current thought. No more I don't know or what if words of waffling. <P>What I am trying to say, is that I had to learn to be tough if I wanted to help clear H from the fog. H could not have me and hold onto her. A man can not sleep in 2 beds at the same time, whether figuratively or physically. <P>Singagain, please continue to come here and post. You have that right, we respect your decisions & opinions. At times, we may say some straight forward stuff. WE ARE A TOUGH GROUP out of shear need. Please forgive our ruff ways, but they are done because we care. Only non-caring people will see someone in need and just keep walking by. <P>If I had a buger hanging out of my nose and you saw it would you tell me or just go away and laugh? Some of us take the chance and tell someone which may embaress them for a short while but ultimately save them from further embaressment and pain. I would do that for you and know others have as well. <P>If I or others have offended you, we apologize, but take our words to heart, we do not want to see you go through your life continually being taken advantage by someone who should be protecting your interest. Your husband can become your protector, lover and friend again, he needs help seeing that he is not doing that for you and your family. <P>Please don't leave us. Let us help you when we can.<P>Sincerely,<BR>L.

<B>Hurrian Hoosier - </B> Yeah, I guess some of us "sensitive" types respond with painful statements, I tend to respond with sarcasm or cynicism...Big fault, I know, but it's been years in the making...<P>Thanks so much for the compliments!! I do mean well and I hope singagain reads these replies and takes them in the spirit they are meant.<P>I agree with you about Bonnie...They don't have to be friends, but I hope the hatchet can be buried...They are both valuable to this forum...<P>--DeWayne--