bioman<BR>i have tried being sweet. she tells me i'm pathetic. i have tried giving her what she wants, she tells me i'm weak. I have tried not giving her what she wants, she tells me I'm being mean and angry.

she is telling you everything she is...just keep it up no matter what she calls you. She is the weak one. Just remember that if you are mean or angry or make her unhappy in an way, then that give her justification in her mind for the divorce. But if you are a great guy, and try to be the man she wants, then even if it doesnt work at the moment. she will remember it later. Would you want her to remember a great guy and feel sad about the divorce, then remember an A**hole(im not saying your being one to her) and be happy about the divorce.<BR>Just keep it up, I know it is hard. I could not do it, but i know if I would have been as sweet as i could to my wife, i would still have her..<P>Good luck<P>------------------<BR>Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.

Hi S&C, <P>Back from the meeting. I have read your posts this afternoon. Your feelings of despair and disappointment are common. Your W is mentioning her fears that you may expect more than she is willing or can give at the moment. She also claims her fear of leading you on with a hope she feels she can not give right now. <P>Let's look at this from another angle. Step outside yourself for a minute and see that your W is going through a swell of emotions. All in unfamilar territory. Like a teenager going through horomonal changes for the first time, everything is frustrating. Worse than a bad PMS day for us women. At the same time she is seeing you follow her lead and this makes her more fearful. Since she can not fully control her actions, she is scared that she is also causing you to be hurt and can't stop the boat from rocking. <P>Now, step back to the land of the logical. Understand that your W is not dealing logically right now. So refrain from using a lot of logic in discussing anything with her. Just tell her you are her friend. She needs friends right now because she is afraid of dealing with anyone she has a relationship right now. Even your children. She may be excluding you, your children, pets, relatives anyone close enough to really know her. Anyone who she thinks might talk her out of it. Too much rocking going on for her and she doesn't want to make it rock more. Even if that is what she needs to make the boat calm down.<P>So until she is at the point to handle more, just be her friend. Easy to say, hard to do. <P>For yourself, you need to take a little time for yourself. Breathe, calm down. Don't take everything your W says literally or personally. We have all had that happen to us. If you do, you will feel every bump of her wild roller coaster ride. This will exhaust you and subject yourself to anxiety attacks. If crying is what you need to do to relieve stress. Find a place and cry your heart out. For me it was at night in my room. Sometimes my anxiety attacks occured at work, in the car, in the store & at home. <P>I am not sure the impact of your W seeing you suffer like this, but I did let my H see my anxiety attacks. Maybe one of the guys can address this better. I am not offended to see a man cry. <P>Now, I can provide the D websites if you want. But I truly think it may be better to concentrate your efforts right now on plan A. Be her friend. This may confuse her further since she may expect your to be angry and push her away. <P>I will stop for now to let you absorb all my jibberish. I have found it helpful to say and do things to make them think. Thinking is helpful when they are in the fog. By the way, my H claimed he was not in the fog and was thinking with a clear mind. That was 3 months ago. A lot has happened since then and only now is he beginning to show signs of thinking clearly. <P>Remember it took her a while to get out there, it will take her a while to get back. Be patient.<P>Will check back later. <P>L.<BR>

Orchid,<P>One thing I didn't mention is that my W is leaving on Wed. to go to be with her sister. Her sister has breast cancer and is having a masectomy on Thurs. That puts my W in a 50% risk bracket. So after my W telling me its all my fault and that I read more into things (hope) than I should, she told me that she would call every night to talk to the kids. but she also said that she would need a friend as well, because it will probably be tough on her. (in fact i just sent her an email telling her i will be there for her).<P>I still want the D websites, I don't want to lose my kids. <P>BTW I feel better about myself this afternoon. Not great, not even good, but not like there's no reason for being here. Thanks to everyone!!<BR>dave

Orchid,<P>One thing I didn't mention is that my W is leaving on Wed. to go to be with her sister. Her sister has breast cancer and is having a masectomy on Thurs. That puts my W in a 50% risk bracket. So after my W telling me its all my fault and that I read more into things (hope) than I should, she told me that she would call every night to talk to the kids. but she also said that she would need a friend as well, because it will probably be tough on her. (in fact i just sent her an email telling her i will be there for her).<P>I still want the D websites, I don't want to lose my kids. <P>BTW I feel better about myself this afternoon. Not great, not even good, but not like there's no reason for being here. Thanks to everyone!!<BR>dave

one more thing,<P>my W asked me for lunch today because our 6 year old daughter broke her hand and she was at doctors. At lunch, she asked if I was going out with anyone. Strange question wasn't it?

SAC, <P>Not such a strange question from a WS. Some of our fellow posters have been asked the very same question.<BR>Her confusion is very obvious. <BR>Don't sign the papers. Buy yourself some time. Read Surviving an Affair. It was the one sane voice for me in this insane situation. My H wanted a D and its a year later and were are doing great. There is a light at the end of the tunnel.

The mind of the WS is bizarre. The question as to whether you are going out with someone is very common. Mine asked me the same thing, within a short time after announcing the end of our marriage. Her mind was very distorted. She has asked that numerous times. She just doesn't get it....I'm committed to my marriage. I guess since they are so fogbound and crazy, they can't base thoughts on reality.<P>Mine told me June 1 our marriage was over. Within a week or two, she confided in a couple we were friends with, that she was crazy over OM, had taken him to dinner at her mothers, and her mother was very happy for her. Her mother didn't even know at that point that my wife had said she wants out of the marriage. OM was never taken to my MILs place...she wouldn't allow it.<P>To this day, mine is adamant that OM is just a friend, except for a minor slip one time where she said something happened in November only. Her affair started last May, and thanks to keyboard monitoring software, I saw how absolutely crazy she was for OM, totally in love, never felt like that before, bla bla bla...all the usual crap they all say and think. So don't let the statements about being friends fool you. An affair is an affair, and denial is totally common.<P>I suggest talking to Steve, if you haven't already. I hope that you get a Plan in place so that you can react based on your plan and your focus on a goal, rather than on instinct. Oh, and don't let your wife fool you by having her make everything seem your fault. She is having an affair....you are reacting to this. She wants to pretend that you are reacting abnormally, which is crap.<P>What does your attorney say about you not living at home. Are you at an apartment or hotel? I don't know all the history, but I would investigate moving back in...perhaps it is too late for that. But she is the one that should move out. I would also use the line that it will have to be her that explains to your children (1 or more?) that she is leaving you, and make it clear that you want the marriage.<P>Like you've been told already, don't make it easy. Don't sign the papers until the day you have to. Don't do anything that you don't want. But get a good Plan A going. The initial days of what is happening now are reallyl hard, I know, but that will improve with time, and you WILL be able to focus on your goal, and not react to each event that occurs.<P>I've got to go, but hang in there and get Surviving An Affair as a minimum, and if you can, talk to Steve Harley.<P>

Hi S&C,<P>I am glad you are feeling a bit better. I know not great. I haven't had a great day in I don't know how long but some are better than others. <P>I have learned to be grateful for little things. <P>Here is the post that has the Divorce websites, there are 3 of them here. <P> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/002691.html" TARGET=_blank>www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/002691.html</A> <P>You mentioned that your wife's sister is having health problems. This could also be adding stress to your wife. Again letting here know you will be there for her as a friend (as I believe you mentioned) is a good thing. <P>Just another thing to think about when you are getting down. When your wife points her finger of blame at you, remember that in order for her to do that, 3 fingers of blame are pointing back at her. Whereas if you are extending your hand out/palms up to her in an offer of support then there is no finger pointing just a extension of friendship and love. <P>Take Care and get some rest. <BR>L.<p>[This message has been edited by Orchid (edited April 24, 2001).]

Thanks to all who posted. It really means a lot to me.<P>dave