My wife has decided she isn't happy in the relationship and she wants to live by herself. We've been together 10 years, married for 7.We have two kids, 7 &3 yo. I love her dearly. I have some concerns about an affair, but no "smoking gun".She denies an affair; but there's some definite "flaky " stuff. We've gone to a councellor recommended by our pastor (3x, ineffective.)We've sold our house( we are under contract to buy a new one; now wife says no way, she wants out of contract.)and will need to leave our house by end of July. I've councelled w Steve Harley (1x); it was great.I will be talking to him again this week. I found this site in Feb. and have been trying to Plan A since.And she seemed recently to be comming somewhat out of withdrawal.However, I was disappointed that she has recently begun looking for an apartment. Wife has never lived on her own ( She turned 30 in March). She says she cares for me, but is not in love. We need to move because of the house sale. Can plan A be effective in this situation? She says I'm a fantastic Dad, and a great guy, but she needs to "live in her own space". I am devastated; find it hard to function.She says she "still wants me in her life"; wants to talk a couple times a day,wants me to be a dad, and is not sure if the problem ( unhappiness) is with her.She says she may be one of those people who has to live alone.She says she wants to live in a space not influenced by a man?? All very dire.She says she has no desire to see others while separated. My Plan A has improved w time, but she still feels she has to go to be happy. I do not argue this point w her anymore, but I feel we have a fantastic family with many strong points in the marriage.Can Plan A work in this situation? How to implement while not living together? My focus lately has been to try to provide a safe, loving environment for her. Maybe it needed more time while we were living together.I pray often, I love my wife and family,I'm not sure how to proceed.Sorry for the disjointed post.

Family Man - yes, Plan A can work - and must work - in your situation. My situation started the same way. Do not rule out an affair, but don't nag her about it. I'm sure Steve told you this and told you about critically looking at yourself for improvements you can make - the real essence of Plan A.<P>Whatever you do, do not let her convince you to leave. Play along and kill her with kindness. Has a legal separation been discussed? Custody? Expenses? Child care?<P>I can share my experience with these things if you tell me a bit more.<P>WAT

worthatry - thanks for your response. I'm intersted in how you managed your situation. Here is my original post:<P> She insists that there's no affair ( I'm not so sure). One of our biggest issues is that she's been hanging out w guys from work ("they're just work friends"). I express my concern, this is labelled controlling and jealous. Possibly. She has lied (e.g. I'm going out w a girlfriend, turns out she's w a divorced guy from work until 3am at a bar).I started snooping and got caught several times- man was that a problem! I've haven't been the easiest to live with; but while she's out partying I'm watching the kids. I do most of the dishes,cooking, laundry, shopping, and lately kid administration. I am trying plan a , I love my wife dearly - but she needs to leave me to be happy. AAAGGHH! ( Sorry for venting)<P>This is my situation. I thought killing her w kindness was having some effect;now I'm not sure.I need to know how to continue plan a while living apart; my family should be together!I do not nag her about an affair; though I have in the past. If I could only undo.....<BR>

Don't kick yourself. It's good that you're willing to critically look at yourself, but SHE is responsible for having an affair. You are partly to blame for creating the environment for it to occur, but that's the extent of your guilt.<P>The only difference in doing Plan A separated is that your opportunity for interaction is less frequent. You don't have as many chances to demonstrate your improvements, and you will have fewer opportunities to meet her ENs. This makes it all the more important to do your best Plan A stuff when she's around. <P>You have the kids - your ace in the hole, but don't use them as pawns. Probably the most important thing for you to do is to demonstrate being a wonderful father. Take the lead in being the stable one for your kids.<P>Stop snooping if it involves following her around, but be observant of indicators like phone bills, e-mails, etc. Get a support group of family and closs friends you can confide in. Are you on good terms with her family?<P>Has she actually moved out yet? Of course it's preferable if she doesn't, but this could be beneficial as well. Others may disagree. In the worse case, you need to strap in for the roller coaster ride of your life and leave her alone until she's willing to talk about working on your marriage. Do not try to reason with her - she's likely not capable of rational thought at the moment.<P>It is really hard to see the effects of your Plan A. If you avoid lovebusters and demonstrate your improvements, the effects will happen, but you'll get little positive reinforcement. Think long range, day by day.<P>WAT

WAT- Thank you for your insight.Our respective families are upset; they thought we had a "poster" marriage.Can you help me understand how it might be beneficial if we live apart? THANKS!

Living apart, IMHO, can be beneficial if living together makes the relationship worse. I know it sounds contradictory. I guess what I meant was that it's not the end if you separate and for some, it may afford the opportunity to realize what they're giving up - to see that the grass isn't greener.<P>Based on what I've learned from reading and from the wonderful folks on this site, I recommend you make sure she knows you have identified things for improvement in your behavior, demonstrate your improvements, make sure she knows that you want to work on the marriage, and that you will do anything to make it work. If this means letting her move out, let her go. Tell her you'll be available whenever she wants to talk. Then tend to your kids and be the best father you can be.<P>If and when she moves out, establish the ground rules for visits, but don't rub her nose in it. By this I mean that it will be very tempting to make her suffer the results of her choice to move out. It's hard to draw the line on this and I've screwed it up a few times.<P>It's good that you have the support of your families, but be wary of doing things that she could call "recruiting" them to support you. This is an LB, but actions initiated by your families can be helpful. Ask Steve about this stuff.<P>Finally, don't take my advice alone. We've been separated for almost 9 months with no reconciliation in sight, so what do I know? But, I've learned a lot in the process.<P>Good Luck.<P>WAT <P>

You've got good advice already from WAT, so I'll try not to repeat. I don't want to make things worse or make an incorrect assumption, but I do want to provide my opinion when it comes to the denial of an affair.<P>My wife started going out alot in March/April/May last year. Said she needed some freedom and socializing. On June 1, she shocked me by saying our marriage was over, it was too late, I was the perfect Dad but she didn't feel the same anymore. She also said there was no one else...it was just about us. She wanted to move out badly, needed space, needer her own place, even asked me to move out (NO WAY).<P>Anyway, to make a long story short, evidence started piling up, such as her cell phone bill that showed long calls to OM before June 1, lie after lie about where she was going, and finally keyboard monitoring software told me everything I needed to know. Then some close friends confirmed that by the 1st or 2nd week of June, she told them she was crazy over this guy, they had already talked about whether she'd have his babies if they got married, bla bla bla. So, you can see that her separation request June 1 was about more than her and I.<P>I just want to say that all signs point to your wife doing much the same thing. All the chatter about space, not needing a man, is not likely to be the true issue. I'm speculating, but what you are being told is right out of the book.<P>Regardless of whether she moves, follow Plan A, and try to ignore the day to day events that could drive you insane. You have to think of it as a long process, and expect alot of crap. You also have to expect her to not make alot of sense, and when you Plan A, the results might take a long time. The addiction of the affair has to start to wear off before you'll see much positive happen.<P>Talking to Steve is good, so think of all your questions before you call again and good luck.

Familyman,<P>I think you should bail out of your contract to sell/buy houses. Expecially since her situation is so unclear. It's way too neat to be selling a house and split into two residences. Something is definitely fishy here. If you already signed contracts, talk with your lawyer. You may have to pay the prospective buyer for his troubles, but 9/10 times you can back out of a contract.<P>If your W really wants out, then she can go with the full understanding that she will be responsible for her financial share of you and the children's upkeep.<P>Stick to your plan but try to be smart at the same time. She's basically giving you an ultimatum and expecting you to do nothing about it. NO WAY! She can't have her cake and eat it too.<P>Keep in touch!<P>------------------<BR>Later,<BR>B

I'd like some help figuring this one out... My wife called me on the cell this a.m. and said that she had found a house for her to move into and wanted me to look at it, if I wanted. We talked about it,I asked what the rent was.She said no rent, she'd PURCHASE it. Long pause. She says in no way does this imply anything ( like divorce, permanent separation). She then says that rather than have me stress about finding a place to live in this tight market I can stay there.<BR>I had found out this weekend that she has indeed been having an affair w a coworker. It's one thing if he's a better man, but this is definitly not the case.I found out from snooping; I'm sure my wife knows I found out. I didn't say anything, just kept doing plan A. She's been showing some slight affection, I'm not sure if this "means " anything or not.So of course I'm thinking,move in w you and the kids,this is great! But is it? Any ideas?

rem<p>[This message has been edited by Family Man (edited May 02, 2001).]

Familyman,<P>Move in with her. This may be her way of saying that she wants to try and work it out. I don't know, but now that you know what most here suspected and the light of day will shine on this affair, it may come to an end. Once you move in, then you can make further decisions.<P>You want and need to be near the children, and it will help if you are living with her to apply plan A.<P>Sorry for the news, but it is not unexpected. Sadly, very normal.<P>God Bless,<P>JL