You posted the below in a response to hurtiningil:<P>"my H felt both guilt and horrible remorse at the point where he wanted to come back and knew he had treated me so badly--because I did keep after him, when all he wanted was to be with me and not face his affair everytime we were together. <P>If your H is happy, join in as well as you can.<P>When I had changed my ways to Plan A, it kinda creeped my H out. It took me awhile to improve what needed improving in me and still be me. Remember...he loved you enough to marry you. And you are the only one who can be Hurtinginil.<P>And, yes, meet his needs, but cater to his every whim...? If what you are doing is bugging you, evaluate why. Is it because you are doing all the giving and he's only taking? It's a rough stage, and I believe it is a stage. I think WS test the BS to see if they are going to flee." <P>Questions:<P>1. I think my W is at the point of feeling a little guilty every time she sees me because that's when she has to face the A and the hurt it caused. How did you & H deal with this? <P>2. What did you change in Plan A--your improvements? I think you are right-on w/advice that "he loved you enough to marry you..."<P>3. It's a rough stage---how long did that last for you? and what got you through it? Again--I think you are probably right when you say they test the BS to see if they are going to flee--or maybe not so much flee, but test them to see what their resolve is. I think my W is doing that some. She said she is scared that I will hold this against her for the rest of her life in every fight or argument we have. My response to that is if I did that, that means I have to carry this with me in the forefront of my thoughts forever. I can't and won't do that. It would kill me. I have to forgive and put it behind me or I will never be right. Does that make sense?<P>Thanks for your insight... <BR>

Elad,<BR>1. Guilt--one of the main reasons behind our last separation, #7 in Jan 00, was my H's feelings of guilt. That time he'd been home Thanksgiving through the week after New Years. An obviously strained holiday time, the 3rd year of strained holiday seasons. I had Plan Aed through the previous separations, but at that point, I had had it. With kids, no relatives living nearby & my friends worn out, I thought Plan B would be very tough. Instead I took my counselor's advice to act "as if" divorced. Co-parenting with my H, but he wasn't my lover, my best friend, I wasn't his counselor, he needed to set up visits ahead of time. My H hit bottom. The affair had been over since 10/99. He didn't have either of us. I served D papers, which no one who does not want a divorce, should do. Unfortunately by that time I did. During that time, my H gave his life to God, started seeing our counselor on his own, and gave me his email, voice mail passwords--accountability, when I was no longer sure I even wanted it. He pulled himself together and Plan Aed me. He posted in GQII Feb-Mar 00 as Guard.<P>2. My Plan A improvements were cutting down on those lovebusters, especially angry outbursts, still an occasional problem for me. And though my H didn't take the ENQ until his own Plan A, I could figure his high needs out, and also the book THE FIVE LOVE LANGUAGES by Chapman was also helpful to me in meeting the needs I could and showing love to him in his "language". The "kinda creepy" stuff was the doormat behavior. A "that's fine dear" when what he was doing was the really hurtful behavior of a WS in thick fog...or in limbo/on the fence. It wasn't me, it wasn't real. Sometimes he would look so relieved when I'd finally get angry, because he knows that Lor, my temper is part of me, but something I needed to learn to control much better, which I think I've been successful with. Sometimes to me, Plan A seemed like such a tightrope walk...being me, but the best me, not a fake nice me?<P>3. Rough stage--I suppose spring 98- summer 00 isn't very comforting? With each of our separations, my H tended to go through either a nasty stage, or severe withdrawal. Then good times together would bring him back...then he'd miss her...or feel guilty...he'd press my buttons, I'd blow up...and he'd say I'd never change...or that I had changed too much, or he had changed too much for our marriage to work. As I said, I finally shut down, about 2 years after his affair had begun and I was done with the marriage.<P>Our recovery is nearing a year. And, the best advice I can give you, is to drop the past. As you've said, if you want your marriage, holding this against your wife will hurt her, but it will destroy you. Sometimes the line is very thin between processing your grief and healing properly vs dwelling in unforgiveness and anger. So yes, putting it behind you or you'll never be right makes perfect sense, in fact I believe it is crucial.<P>You may need a counselor, and I've heard nothing but good about Steve Harley, here on the sight, available for phone counseling. Certainly MB helped us tremendously, but we also needed our counselor, who is a former WS himself, and now an ordained pastor in a counseling ministry. Having a safe place to vent with a third party to mediate enabled us to get to the bottom of some things that alone we just went round and round on. And we've both seen him individually, as BS & WS issues are very different. And both of us are both BS/WS so we get rather tangled up with our issues/triggers sometimes.<P>But, we're doing very well. If you want to read about our last weekend, check Recovery the "We're back" thread.<P>Take care.

Lor:<P>Thanks for your reply and the insight. I had read some of your previous posts but had forgotten what a long and hard road you have travelled. There must be a special place in heaven reserved for those like you who work that hard to save a marriage.<P>A couple of things really hit home--such as the Plan A tightrope. I am trying to do the best I can but still not lose me in the shuffle. Especially the part about being me, the nice me, not a fake nice me. I told my W that last night. I think it's important that I not try to be something I am not but just a better version of who I am and can be. <P>As far as counseling--right now we are seeing separate counselors and I am hoping that she will commit to our marriage so we can see a counselor together. I am confident (as much as anyone can be confident in these situations) that joint counseling will do a world of good.<BR>She just doesn't want to do that until she is ready to commit 100%. I am hoping that is soon and I am trying to be patient until then.<P>Thanks for your reply.<P>Best of luck and take care.<BR> <BR>

Elad,<BR>Thanks for your kind words. I'm under no illusion that I did everything right, in fact, I'm quite sure that at some points I made some real errors, but, since we did get back together...which ones were they? But I wouldn't wish some of my footsteps on anyone, and I do know I made the best decisions I could, most of the time.<P>I also found that re-reading through Plan A and the lovebuster definitions every once in awhile helped put me back on track for the tightrope. Plan A really isn't just playing nice with others, though that seems to be part of it.<P>I think seeing separate counselors is fine for a time. It can be difficult to find a *good one*. We went through 3. H had one--too young, never married, no kids! We had another--again, never married, no kids! And seriously depressed himself, with identity issues of some kind that he wanted us to share (this one didn't know about the affair). The last one, we've seen alone (sometimes for a specific issue or when one or the other of us was refusing to go) & together, he's even split sessions, me 15 min, Guard 15, together the rest of the time. I like his flexibility.<P>I've heard that 100% committed line. Sigh. Commitment is a decision and action, not a feeling. And, hopefully your W will realize that.<P>Lor<P><P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Whatever is true, honorable, just, pure, lovely, gracious...think about these things." Phil 4:8