I admire the people here who have done great or good Plan A's. I admire Sir Hurts Alot strength & willingness to keep hanging in there, he is right I wouldn't mind his marriage if my WH had given up the OW. I admire HGBrawner's faith, I wish had it. I admire Wat for in the face of the 2 worst crises in his life to be so positive, not crying why me. I admire Terri for her tenacity in standing her marriage, & her willingness to ask for help. I admire so many of you for hanging in there through the fog or brain worm, you all have given me so much encouragement. I admire SKM & new beginnings for being so open on why they were WS & their willingness to share & help other<P>I truly believe in standing for your marriage but I now wish I had taken a different course. A year ago I was ready to move to Plan B, if not Plan D when my H left the hospital to go home with OW, I had to go home & tell my sons that daddy wasn't coming home, only OS knew where he went. While my son & I were discussing options he was 15, basically what we do for the weekend, I was thinking of taking them away somewhere, my H calls & begs me not to do anything rash, I promise & so for a month my H goes back & forth. I only let this happen as the job for overseas was in discussion & he wanted nothing to jeopardize it, or so he said. I like the gullible fool I am believed him.<P>Long & short we moved, ended up under very unpleasant conditions. We almost divorced, but I was persuaded to come, I was meet here by H's indifference & constant calls from OW. My OS knew that we almost divorce, in fact I think he was in favor of it, he said mom you have done all you can do, you know dad will tell you anything to get us (the boys) there, he is lying to you. <P>I most likely let my son know too much during last summer. The yr before he found out about the OW in not the greatest way, but everything with him seemed fine. Even though he didn't talk to a counselor, he had a great support group, even in new school & mom going back to work, dad not living at home for 6 mths he flourished.<P>I came to Singapore to rebuild our lives. I came because I thought it would be good for us economically, great for my kids academically, & a great cultural experience. We would be away from OW, what more could I ask, I thought this was the answer to my prayers.<P>From the moment my son got drunk (believe 1st time he had ever had a drink) the night before we were to leave till now it has been a nightmare. For my YS it has been everything I hoped for, but for my OS. I took him away from his support group brought him to a country where the drug laws are stiff, I thought he be safe here. Was I ever wrong? His friends here have been the worst influence on him they could be, the young man who would write devolutions for his youth group about peer pressure, about being strong to yourself has done just about everything I never thought he do. <P>My son with the 1020 on SAT's as a 7th grader, 3.6 GPA is now flunking out of school. I thought he would up hold his agreement with the school, so he could return next yr, he will be lucky to have enough credits to be counted as a Jr. He lies to me, sneaks out of the house, drinks, & at least talks in IM's about drugs. <P>I forced him to come here so we could be a family. I thought he needed both of us. Of course my H has not been here especially since the 1st of the yr, now H is so wrapped up in plotting to return to the OW, that I don't think he notice anything. H does ask about OS grades but I thought he was doing his work, doing better, till I found all the failing progress reports. My H doesn't know much about the other, he has not been here, I can only tell him I think this is going on, I don't have much proof, & when I do tell him, he goes to OS, & goes your mom thinks you are doing this...<P>In trying to save my family, I think I have destroyed my son. Now I am afraid that my H will try use these problems against me in a custody battle, of course he & OW will not want the problem that is my OS in their new life. <P>I doubt if I have made any sense, but thanks for reading a mother's brokenhearted ramblings.<P><BR>Thanks, sing <P>

Don't be so hard on yourself. You did what you thought was best, for yourself, your marriage and your children. No one can fault you there. For the most part, children are resilient. Undoubtedly, the turmoil in your household is having some effect on your OS (although you have yet to see it, it is most likely effecting your YS too). All is not lost--and you certainly are not to blame. Be the role model and the disciplinarian your children need at this time. They are, afterall, still children. Above all, do not give up hope. If you still have it in you, continue to try Plan A with your H. Yes, it's hard, humbling and an exhausting experience; but well worth the effort if you really desire to save your marriage. If you are at your total wits end, perhaps its time to move to Plan B. The school year is almost over. Take your time and do what is best for all involved.

Hey, sing--<P>I am so sorry...as the mom of a 15 year old boy, my heart breaks reading this.<P>First, you do not know what would have happened if you had not moved to try & keep your family together. Your son could easily have fallen in with a bad crowd in the states, and been right where he is now, or worse. There is no way to know.<P>Remember this...if you had been given the chance to see the future & to prevent your son's problems, you would have done it in a heartbeat, right? I know that you would have. You were not given that chance though. You had to make the best decision you could at the time, with the info you had, and that is what you did.<P>Don't waste your energy beating yourself up. Your son needs his mom, in good condition .<P>Big, big hugs--<P>Kathi<p>[This message has been edited by kam6318 (edited April 29, 2001).]

Sing:<P>My heart breaks for you as I read your story. Like you, all I wanted was my family together. Like you, I feel like I have sacrificed my kids and myself for the WS. I don't think the Harley principles ALWAYS work, at least not for me. Though too late now, I think the tough love would have worked with my WS. I have some professional experience with teens, so I know that his peer group is all that matters to him right now. Don't blame yourself for this, it's all about who they hang out with. Try to get him some help and you as well. Take care.

Peer group doesn't have to be all the matters, though society and the school system in particular would like to convince parents that that is so. My son, who is almost 15, was complaining the other day about an ad for Boys and Girls Clubs, because they were encouraging kids to spend time there when they should be home with their families. It had not occurred to him that their families were not at home.<P>One of the many terrible outcomes of divorce is that I have been prevented from continuing to homeschool my children. In the months since they returned to school, my high schooler has experienced the suicide of a classmate and the fear resulting from a bomb threat phoned in by a child of about 12. <P>The "socialization" that middle and high school provides is one of the most damaging influences around. Teaching compliance, not independent thought, is one of the major goals of the educational establishment - why are they surprised when children end up going along with the crowd. I am very grateful that my children are NOT compliant, that they are outspoken and do not hesitate to speak up when they disagree with their teachers or with me. I just hope my younger ones can maintain that spirit of independence. <p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited April 29, 2001).]

Sing, I too can relate with a 14 and 17 yr old sons. I am having so many problems with Older son now, see my new message. But the only way I can deal with it is to give them to God, they were a gift from God and he can and will work on them. This is not your fault, this is your WS and you must realize that this is part of the consequenses of his SIN. He must be notified of the problems that your son is having, every time something happens with our sons, I email WH with the result. I rarely get any response but I at least let him know what is going on. Just love your son and explain to him about the two choices-God Choices or Satan Choices (There are only two for everything) Use the example of their dad is making Satan choices and the damage and problems that have occured due to that choice. I try to surrender my sons to GOd and let them make their own choices as they have to live with them, and if they choose the wrong choices, GOd will deal with them. I hope you can find a good Bible Teaching church with a youth group and a supportive church family, I could have never made it without my Church and most of all MY AWESOME GOD! God is very good, SIng, he has a plan in all of this and he does take bad and turn to good. He already knew this was going to happen and he can and will turn it around, in his own time! I hope this helps!

sing - We all admire you for your perseverence.<P>Not too many days ago, our friends here correctly cautioned me against playing "what if." Yesterday is gone, we cannot change it. Tomorrow is out of our reach. That leaves only Today that we can influence. Make the most of Today - that is all we can do.<P>YOU have not destroyed your son. Please don't beat yourself up over this. You can save him, despite your and his challenges. Be the hero, not the victim - you are certainly not the criminal.<P>Keep rambling to us, we will listen.<P>Dave

Ah <B>sing</B>,<P>You have such a tender spirit...<P>I am so very sorry about your son. That hurts to read, and I know how much it hurts to live when your children are hurting~~ <P>You have worked very hard... do NOT discount that! Your subject line says it all: All you wanted was to keep your family... that is a GOOD goal!!<P>And darling, you make PERFECT sense!!!!<P>(((((sing)))))

My Dear Sing,<P>You are a loving mother, you are a good wife. This is what your family has and needs. Sometimes in the road of life the other half takes a turn. Whether it be our spouse or children. Yet, as difficult as it is, staying on our chosen path of being the loving mother and wife is important. It is hard to keep plugging along but that is where stability and love resides and your family knows it. <P>You made the right choices in your life for you and your family. No one can truly say any other decision would have been guarnateed to be better. <P>You have support here for your marriage and family. While my son is still young (6 years), I dealt with the teen years of my H's younger bros & sis. Yes, it is hard. You have to constantly tell them you love them and then watch them tear you up. <P>One of the gals at work had a traumatic experience with her son. Suicide attempt. He has a very open relationship with his parents but the peer pressure was great. His parents took him to a counselor and worked with him. Then several of his friends had issues. One was into drugs, another drinking and another with a pregancy issue. <P>Her son started body piercing and did begin drinking. His former girlfriend even pushed him to lose his virginity and this what pushed him to attempt suicide. His life at 17 looked bleak. He went from a model straight A student to almost failing. <P>His mom took him one day to the hospital, not for himself, but so he could visit a friend. One of his buddies' girlfriend had delivered a premature baby. This child had servere brain damage and both mother and child were in critical condition. Her son always had a love for life and when he saw that baby, it served as a wake up call for him. He started taking a look at the direction he was heeding and what could happen to him. I am sure you know the rest. He is now doing fine but that was a great struggle for that family. <P>As painful as it is, Sing I wanted to share this experience with you. Keep the lines of communication open with you son, in a loving way, let him see the affects (1st hand if possible of those living his current lifestyle) and most of all let him know you love him and want him to grow up as a fulfilled young adult. <P>There is a scripture that my mother shared with me a long time ago. 3John vs 4: "No greater cause for thankfulness do I have than these things, that I should be hearing that my children go on walking in the truth." My mother told me this while I was a teenager about your son's age. When I wanted sooo much to follow the crowd, rebell (girl from the 70's), wanting independance, etc. You know what I knew deep down inside that my parents loved me. So those words have echoed in my ears til now. <P>Those words have helped me remember to do what is right. Remembering those words and my parents brings a tear to my eye. I just wanted to share that with you from a mom to a mom. <P>Take Care, <P>L.<BR>

You know, sing, 15 is a terrible age. <BR>My 2 boys are now 18 and soon to be 20. We have had so many things happen in their high school years(both away at college now). Suicides of friends, car accidents with death of friends, bad crowds, drinking,lying. They DO come back...all is not lost...just LOVE him and support him and give him consequences. Even if his friends parents do not discipline as they should. <BR>They are actually grateful now for my forcing them to work and save their $$. For making them do chores, their own laundry and how to take care of themselves, to a point.My YS says their are kids at school who don't know how to work a microwave! He says hecould cook a gourmet meal in one,lol.<P>They are not by any means all the way there yet but they show glimmers of the people they will become. AND BTW, this was way before the affair my H had.

Thanks for all the kind words from you all. It was a nice way to start my day, knowing that there were caring people out there somewhere in cyberspace.<P>All of your kind words touched my heart, thank you again.

sing,<P>Like the others have said, you have been doing your best, and have been trying to save your marriage. Your focus has been on being there for your family, and on doing whatever you can to be the best mom and wife that you can be. There is only so much one can do....some of it is beyond our control.<P>We make decisions at any given time that we think will have the best results. Sometimes things happen that are not what we want. But all you can do is YOUR BEST, and if anyone is doing that it is you. Most if not all of us are guilty of wondering about the past, asking ourselves whether we could have done something different or better. You just never know. All you can do is make the best decision based on what you know.<P>Please don't blame yourself for things. You are doing your best under very difficult circumstances. You are always there for so many of us on MB. Usually when I've had a vent post or any other post for that matter, there is a response from you, and it is appreciated. Hang in there. Glad that you sounded better when you started your day.

Thanks again for everyone's kind words when I try to answer them I just cry too hard. I do a lot of crying every day, as it is as these boards my only outlet at this time.<P>I have no regrets for coming here because if I had not I would had always wondered, now I know that my H is a liar & cheat & will most likely always be one.<P>I do regret not putting my foot down when OW was calling when we arrive, but I felt sorry for her, dumb I know.<P>I regret not leaving when in OCt when I knew he meet her in London, but I did not & I can't change now & the damage has been done.<P>My son was the boy you would want your daughter to date; I don't think you would now. He is not the shinning example he has always been. His choices have been his but my heart breaks knowing that my choices may have led him to some of his. Of course I will not go into how the choices his dad has made have impacted his life but the choices my son has made are his.<P>I have spoken to the school psychologist, he doesn't believe my son is depressed, which is good news, I didn't go into the behavior problems but I think he could guess. I plan on making an appeal to my sons teachers in hopes that he can at least get credit.<P>My H return here in the wee hours of Monday morning, he had the chance to ask my about son's grades with no one around, he didn't. I was waiting to bring it up after YS baseball game & party; I wanted a pleasant evening maybe H did also. But he brings the subject on the way home from the game with YS in the car. I couldn't believe it. I told him the grades were bad but there was still a small chance that son could return to this school. After YS was asleep & OS was out (it is public holiday here today) I went to talk to H but he was too busy on his mobile phone, I stood there, came back twice & he would never glance in my direction. I sent an email telling him we need to talk, not sure if it went through or not but I have sent another email.<P>Through out this ordeal I have discovered I am enabler, I can't bear for my H to know what our son is doing, I know he has a right, that he needs to know but I so hate for him to be disappointed in our son. More than likely the Christian principals that we raised this child with don't mean much to my H any more but I hate for him to know. I have kept from my children all the times H has lied about where he is so they don't know the times daddy could have really been here but was with OW. <P>To those of you who pray, please pray for us, my son<P>Again thank you all for all the warm words & kind thoughts<BR>

My son (just turned 20) has gone from an athletic honor high school graduate to I really don't know what. I know he is involved with drugs. I don't know for sure if he has fulfilled his "promise" to finish up this semester with decent grades. He has told us he does not want to return to school in the fall, but that he will at some point, thus incentive to do well this semester. <P>He lies constantly about things he doesn't even have to lie about. He got a bill out of our mailbox that had a Circuit City account on it. His father had opened a joint acct withhim to purchase a car stereo. Of course son never paid the payments, so his dad did to protect his credit. Shame on us for not closing out the credit line. We have since. He went and charged over $1,000 on it. Just lie after lie after lie.<P>He is still living at home, but doesn't show up to sleep anymore. Comes home during the day when we aren't there and then is gone by the time we get home. <P>The last confrontation turned into a major blow up between H and son. Son hates us both, although we have always tried to help him and be there for him. <P>Our older daughter graduated from college, always took care of herself and is living her own life doing very well. My children are opposites. She was home two weeks and he didn't give her time of day because she is a ******* b****. She has lived out of town since she graduated from college and hasn't even interacted with him. Where is this coming from?<P>At any rate, someone posted to me earlier that I don't take the credit for her success, so I shouldn't take all the blame for his choices. I do feel I was a good mother to him. There are some things I should have been firmer with, but he has made his own choices. <P>H and I have discussed not letting this build a rift between us. So, when the rift is there already, it must be very difficult for you to deal with that and your H.<P>My prayers are with you.<p>[This message has been edited by Janie (edited May 01, 2001).]

Janie,<P>I am so sorry about your son. I guess the pain doesn't go away does it. You are right we don't take credit for our children's sucesses so why take the blame for their mistakes. But sure is hard, isn't it?<P>It is very hard for me to tell my H about our OS, one of the many reasons is because of an email from OW telling me I use those "poor boys" to hang on to H. Makes it hard to tell about the bad things, even when the bad things NEED to be talked about. <P>