What a mess.<P>OM's wife called me a little while ago. She probably was prompted by seeing me outside as she drove by. Because the cordless phone was not in the room, I answered on the speaker. My son was in the room so he heard everything.<P>She asked me to please ask my wife, ONE MORE TIME, to stay away from her H when her kids are present (of course she wants her away from her H when the kids aren't present, too). She went on to say that she, OM, and their youngest daughter were in their car at a nearby shopping center Saturday when my wife ran across the parking lot with open arms toward OM as he stood outside. When she got to him, he immediately told her that his wife was in the car, so she high tailed it back to her car.<P>I suggested she tell my wife herself. She said she doesn't know how to get in touch with her. I told her I'd pass the message along just to get her off the phone.<P>I asked my son if he heard the converstion. He said yes, and added, "Mom said she just said 'hello' to <OM>."<P>I was floored.<P>I asked <son> what he knew about this and he backed paddled, saying Mom just told him she saw <OM> and said hello. I asked was he with her? No. Well how did it come up in conversation? Then he got beligerant and asked me to just drop the subject. He added that we can never believe anything <OM's wife> says.<P>What a mess. If I wasn't so crazy, I'd go insane! <P>So, do I tell my wife the message? I can do it kind of casually, with the byproduct that she knows that I know the A is still going strong. I am very upset that she's having conversations with my son about OM. He defends her without question.<P>The easy, non-LB solution is to not say anything. But I feel like there's some opportunity here to make her squirm.<P>What a mess.<P>Dave (WAT)

Geez, it seems like everyone's situation today reminds me of something in my past life (as in ex-marriage, not Shirley McClain )<P>We were living in an apartment complex when this woman came to me, with a mutual friend present, to ask me to ask my then-H to leave her alone. By the way, this woman isn't even counted among the five OW my ex had, but I digress. She asked, and you bet your hiney I told my then-H. <P>If it's gotten so bad that the W is coming to you (and Lord, I feel for that woman, that had to be SO HARD TO DO) then I think it's only right to tell your W. Try not to LB too much, although you almost can't help it... be gentle...<P>I also had the H of OW#1 come to me... yep again, I told my then-H of that too.<P>Timing and the place to tell her will be important...<P>Let's see what others have to say...<P><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited April 30, 2001).]

Hi Dave,<P>To have you and OM's W to have to go through that along with your children being thrown in the middle is at least to say very sad. I agree that your wife needs to be told, but I think it should be by you first. <P>RE: If there is a remote chance that your W will be shamed by the revelation that the OM's W is willing to tell her to stay away from her H, then this will give her the chance to rectify herself. If she doesn't listen, then you have the other option.<P>This is a toughie. I think you are up to this. If not, come here for a dose of support.<P>Take Care,<BR>L.

No matter how much your W takes this as a LB...<P>...prove to your W that <B>honesty</B>... is paramount in your relationship with her(W)!<P>She will most likely yell at you...<BR>...maybe hit you...<BR>...maybe slap your face.<P>Don't throw it back in her face...<BR>...she's deep in the fog...<P>Let her(your W) know... your love for your W... is <B>your</B> desire...<BR>...and is not driven by hurting anyone.<P> <P>Jim

Thanks for the quick replies. It's hard to believe she's still so childish.<P>Orchid - OM's wife has been telling my wife to stay away from her H and kids for almost a year. She threatened legal action last summer. There is no shame in that fog bank.<P>Jim - she knows I want honesty. She has not been honest with me from the beginning - remember, she still denies the affair. <P>I think I'll casually bring it up in our next face to face conversation - maybe Wed. at <son's> baseball game.<P>It could go like this:<P>Her: Oh, they put in a new pitcher, is he any good?<BR>Me: Yea, but he's not real fast.<BR>Her: Has <son> hit him before?<BR>Me: Grounded out last time. Oh yea, <OM's W> asked me to ask you to please not be affectionate to <OM> around the kids. Did he call that a strike? And I'd appreciate it if you didn't do it around <son>. Is that clear?<P>Well?<P>Dave (WAT)

When OW husband started calling me I used it as an excuse to call my H. I told him I wanted a realationship with him, but I did not want to be involved in the drama going on between the 3 of them... OW her H and my H. I told him I was afraid of what OW H might do. <P>You know , it was the first time I heard a little clearing in the fog. H said he was trying to break it off with her. And he would talk to her H about not calling here. <P>So it had good results for me. I think after so much denial, to have to awknolege that it wasnt just me with suspicions may was a little dose of reality.<P>Lora

Dave...<P>I love your unabashed honesty with us...<BR>...what a smile your proposed dialog put on me.<P>How about the following as an alternative?...<P>You: Hi honey, I'd like to talk with you a bit. (warm smile)<BR>Her: yeh... what now? (irksome expression)<BR>You: I want to say this will all the compassion I can muster. (warm smile)<BR>Her: oh boy... here we go again... (head down... huffing away)<BR>You: <OM>'s wife spoke to me the other day... and in honesty, I feel obligated to let you know what she said to me.<BR>Her: (silence)... (maybe a cough)<BR>You: she said... she felt hurt and very upset when you approached <OM> in the mall parking lot the other day. In love for you... I sympathize with her hurt... and her feelings with her kids in the car. I don't want to make this a big "thing" between us... I just want to let you know what happened... (a hug... maybe? holding her hands... maybe? ducking from a swing... maybe?)<BR>Her: (who knows)?<BR>You: (hand to her... her favorite chocolates... small sample)<P>Just an idea.<P> <P>Jim

I'd tell her, next time you see her in person, or perhaps in a conversation on the phone depending on the circumstances.<P>The end result will probably be nothing. She'll get upset and cold about it. But I'd say it is a chance to make a statement where you are just being the messenger.<P>Unfortunately it sounds like your wife tells your son things to slant his opinion according to her desires. Strange how that would have come up in conversation.<P>Maybe you should give her your wife's phone number. Would that not shame your wife if she called to say this herself?<BR>

Thanks again for the suggestions.<P>Jim - I will incorporate some of your suggestions. She will get defensive the second she detects a serious conversation. Unabashed honesty? So you noticed?<P>Lora - This has been high drama from the beginning. Of the four of us, me, my W, OM, OM's W, - I am certain I am the only rational one. I was a prisoner in my own house for awhile because OM's W wouldn't leave me alone. She wanted to plot strategies and follow their every move. I wanted to be left alone, so I finally cut off communication with her. It is a good opportunity to remind my wife to keep me out of the three ring circus until the clowns leave.<P>Rick - As much as I would like to, no way can I give her my wife's phone number. Huge LB. I promised I wouldn't long ago. OM's wife is so aggressive and attacking, she became my wife's target for blame because it was so easy to blame a loud, out of control woman.<P>WAT

Dave,<P>Make sure you tell her, as your son was there he is bound to tell her as this line of discussion is already open between them.<P>I think your son is in as much fog as your W but he loves his mom.<P>As always you are doing good, <P>If you tell her at the baseball game make sure there are not any bats at hand. <P>our baseball is over /

Update - Talked to OM's W again. She wanted to know if I'd passed the message along to my wife yet. I said no, since I haven't talked to nor seen her since. I asked her what time the incident described above happened on Saturday. She said about noon. This means that my son was with my wife at the time, because she had him all day until his game that night. My son denied that he was with her when she saw OM. Either he's lying to protect his Mom, or she asked him not to tell me about it.<P>I know I can't control whether or not my wife has our son around OM. But for him to be involved in the deception is way out of bounds.<P>I also suspect that she went out of town with OM Sunday morning and returns today, based on what OM's W told me about OM's travel. This means she left without telling me how to reach her and maybe even told my son she was going on a trip, but not to tell Dad.<P>What do I do? Just chalk this up as typical fogheads, or confront her with the deception concern and not telling me of her whereabouts. Maybe I should just casually bring it up at the baseball game:<P>Her: Oh, they put in a new pitcher, is he any good?<BR>Me: Yea, but he's not real fast.<BR>Her: Has <son> hit him before?<BR>Me: Grounded out last time. Oh yea, <OM's W> asked me to ask you to please not be affectionate to <OM> around the kids. Did he call that a strike? And I'd appreciate it if you didn't do it around <son>. Is that clear?<BR>Her: WHAT?<BR>Me: By the way, how hot was it in Texas?<P>More advice, please?<BR>Dave

I find it so sad that you allowed your son to be dragged into the middle of “your mess”. I recall from previous postings that the reason you purchased your caller ID was to avoid the OM’s wife. And with the poor reception that most speakerphones have anyway, I am surprised that you would even consider answer the phone to begin with, knowing it was her, how belligerent she always seems to always be and that your son was sitting right there to over hear it all. You could have at least gone & gotten the receiver to the cordless phone, if you really wanted to talk to her in the first place. I don’t mean to judge your motives here but we as sole care takers & role models of our children really need to be careful when it comes to protecting them. You knew your son was right there to overhear the entire call. If by chance you didn’t check your caller id, that you purchased for that specific reason, then when you heard it was the OM’s wife on the line you could have told her to hold on a second or you could have even hung up on her. But instead you allowed your son to listen while this very angry woman ranted & raved about the mother of your child, whom your son obviously idolizes. Then, as if that wasn’t enough you intentionally put your son in the middle of it even further by drilling him on what he knew about all of this, no wonder he became belligerent. Take it from someone who has drug my child through more than one divorce, that these “unintentional” on purpose digs at the WS are sooo damaging to the child & only drive them further away from you. I suggest that you stop judging your son’s mother (even though she is wrong) and keep your focus on nurturing you only son.

You make me laugh... I love the "conversation" at the baseball game...<P>I still say to tell her!

Livn4mychild - in some respects, you're absolutely correct. But you've also jumped to conclusions. The caller ID needs new batteries, so it wasn't working. Regardless, I probably would've answered anyway because OM's W hasn't "ranted and raved" to me in a long time. <P>Did I describe it as ranting and raving? I don't think I did. <P>Drilling? No I didn't drill him. Perhaps I shouldn't have asked him anything, but what I did ask was in a nurturing fashion and with the SOLE intent of trying to figure out if my wife is manipulating him and involving him in her deceptions - I'm trying to protect him from HER putting him in the middle. Looks like I'm too late.<P>I will continue to judge my son's mother. I invite anyone, including you, to judge me.<P>Thank you for your reply. I will try very hard to minimize my son's involvement.<P>WAT

Dave,<P>Lord knows we all can be a bit sensitive about things, and this is probably me being sensitive, but have I offended you in some way??

NB - No! I always value your input. My previous response was to Lvn4mychild. She/he did not offend me either, and I honestly agree with her/him about the danger of involving our precious children. I could have handled this incident better from that standpoint, it just wasn't as bad as Lvn interpreted it.<P>Dave

No, it wasn't because of that post... it's just that <blush> you answered everyone but me on the first page... I know, get a life, eh??? Sorry, and thanks for letting me know.

NB - Relax. I replied to Orchid and Jim because they innocently made wrong assumptions that I wanted to tell them.<P>Now, in addition to Lvn4mychild's advice, what do I do to protect my son and how do I communicate it to my wife?<P>Dave

Me, relax??? Clearly you jest! Okay, I hear you...<P>About your son and your W...<P>Sit your son down and tell him that you realize he has inadvertantly been put in the middle and you will not allow that any longer. Tell him you love him for what he's trying to do, but this is a matter for you and his mother to work out... praise him for his wanting to help.<P>Your wife? I'd sit her down, tell her what happened in the kindest way possible, and let her fume her little head off. You are the messenger, and you have been embarrassed, humiliated and hurt by this... you don't need to hurt her back by being mean or anything... but I would definately let her know what happened. I wouldn't make a BIG deal out of it, even tell her as she's getting in the car... not a PLANNED MEETING or anything... <P>so, whaddya think?

NB - I think you're right about my son. As to my wife. Our face to face discussions never come off as intended. The baseball scenario was fun to imagine, but I'd be surprised if it was effective. Maybe an e-mail or letter, emphasizing the need to protect our son.<P>BTW, OM's W informed me that he filed, she counter filed on the basis of adultery, and they're in remediation discussing custody. Hmmmmmmmm.<P>Dave