We met after he moved in next door. He had 2 children and I had 2 foster children. He was like Mr. Mom, I admired this since I had raised my son completely by myself, without any help or contact from his father(his choice). Friends and family kept telling me I needed to go out and meet someone. Since I was alone doing foster care, with no help, this was all I did 24/7, 2 special needs children. I told people the only way I would meet someone was if HE came to my door, H was this man. We spent more and more time together. He ran into financial problems, got behind on his rent and had to move. His family wouldn't help, his kids were going to live with their mother(they didn't want to)and he said he would stay in his van. He bought the van because we had too many kids and had to take 2 cars if we went anywhere. He was depressed, upset, I felt bad, although I wasn't sure whether I should take this on also. I finally told him he could move in with me, if nothing else, so he moved in. <P>Jump forward in time:<BR>My husband left 9 1/2 months ago after being together for 6 yrs. (July) <BR>When he left he said he was mixed up and confused. Said he still loved me and cared about me (right) but he's not IN LOVE with me. He just came home from work and said he got an apartment. I was shocked, what could I say but, leave. He was calling me and coming over occassionally. He wouldn't tell me where he was living. Said he'd give me his phone number, but changed his mind. He called me almost everyday from his business.I tried talking to him, to no avail. When he came over I cried and he also had tears in his eyes, although he wouldn't tell me why and couldn't get out the door fast enough when the tears came to his eyes. That indicated to me that it was bothering him too. Before he left he never sat down and talked to me about what was bothering him, he even admitted this, I asked him how was I suppose to know? He kept it all inside, I guess, and went off.<P>End of August<BR>The weekend before I found out about OW, I spent Fri. all day with him. I fixed a nice lunch went to his business, poor thing said he didn't have food or money. I stayed there all day until closing. He had to go and get his auto tags and insisted I couldn't ride along, but I did. We came back and talked until 10:00 pm. I took the block off my caller ID, so he could call from his apt. He didn't want me to have his unlisted phone number (although I had it anyway). He called me that night and talked until 3:30am. Said he was having a problem and couldn't sleep nights, he never had a problem here. Surprisingly he showed up Sat. Wasn't feeling well, went to sleep for awhile. I fixed him a nice meal, he ate, hung around until about 8:30 and had to go. <P>Sept. <BR>The following Sat. I picked up an elderly friend and stopped to get gas. I looked up and saw this female glued to the passenger window, starring at me constantly, stopped at the red light. Than I realized it was H car, he purchased a brand new sports car loaded a week after he left (mid-life crisis car?). I followed H to another gas station. Screeched and slid a hair from his bumper, looking down on HER. First thought was girlfriend, second thought was NO WAY HE IS WITH THAT. I asked him, he ignored me, finally said just a friend. <P>I couldn't sleep that night and decided to call. She answered the phone. He wouldn't admit it, she got on the phone. I asked her if she was the one that was with him. She said Yes, I told her I was very sorry, she said WHAT, I told her that she must have had a hard life (she does look worse for wear) She yelled, ranted, cussed. She wanted to beat me up, I told her I wouldn't sink to her level, or waste my time. I told her that only showed me how immature and childish she was and she should go back to Jr. High and grow up. I told her that her extremely limited vulgar language indicated she apparently was uneducated and that she had a vast lack of intelligence. I told her furthermore, it was obvious that she had NO morals or ethics because she was with a married man. I told her yes, I was perturbed at first but now I had to laugh because it was evident that she has absolutely nothing going for her. I kept a calm voice the whole time, and she got more irritated. I told H you have a nice car, I just don't understand, why would you mess it up by putting trash in it. <P>Things haven't gotten any better. He even brought her over here one day after he got mad because I confronted him with an issue. She was on my doorstep beating on the door. Left and came back and left a threatening note. I called the Sheriff Dept. and went to court for an order of protection. I got a temporary one and had to go back to court with OW. She lied unbelievably. She even brought her sister in to testify and she lied too, runs in the family. Admitted she wrote the note, but said she wrote it to her boyfriend (my H) and I must have dug it out of their trash. Everytime I referred to my H, she said EX. Judge asked me if we had divorce, separation or anything. When I told her NO, she looked at her and said than that's HER HUSBAND and they are married, Judge knew where she was coming from. The Judge called her down many times, she kept sticking her foot in her mouth. The Judge found her quilty of harassment, trespassing, ordered her to stay away from me, absolutely NO contact and ordered her to pay court costs. She didn't pay the court costs, so we were back in court again. This time H was with her. She kept laying her head on his shoulder, I didn't let it bother me. The whole time she just starred at me, unreal. I got a better look at her, she had a shaved head. From what I can gather, she tried to dye her hair and it fell out, so she shaved it. It was just starting to grow out and dyed dark brown, but I could see the scalp. I couldn't believe it, she was very pale, circles under eyes, terrible complexion covered with acne, very yellow/brown teeth, nothing feminine whatsoever about her, straight and flat as a board. Not that looks are everything, but she is not even a nice person. At least I am surely not the the slightest bit jealous. She has a past history of drugs, criminal record, and she has been involved with other criminal cases family and others. Appears to be pure trash. Where is his (H) head? Another man I know calls her a DIKE, so it's not only my opinion. <P>I've been told he is leading an entirely different lifestyle than when he was with me and has become a diverse personality, not for the better. I just don't understand. Things he is and has been doing are totally out of character for him.<P>He has created a financial disaster, not only for himself, but for me. We had the business, so since he has left I have nothing. He told me to get a job and that was my problem. He dumped it all in my lap.<P>He had called me back in Dec. from a pay phone, outside freezing. He accused me of calling his apt, NOT ME. He kept insisting, I told him he had caller ID, and it wasn't me. He said I called on my cell phone, I told him I didn't have a cell phone. He said I used someone elses, not true. Finally I convince him when I said I would swear on a Bible, and he knows how I feel about that. Than he accused me of driving around his apt. all day. I know the OW told him these lies. I told him it wasn't me, he insisted it was and said he took pictures. I had to laugh at that one, he lived 25 miles from me, and I wasn't anywhere near there. Than I told him to ask his girlfriend where she was with his car the day before. He started begging me to tell him. He had desperation in his voice, it was sad and sick. I told him he had caught her in a lot of lies, he said YES. I asked him if he trusts her, he said NOT REALLY. He trusted me, told me he would trust me with his life before. I told him when she had her vehicle, she left on Fri. and didn't come back until the following Mon., he said Yes. I asked him where and what was she doing. He said he didn't know. I asked him if she really loved and cared about you, wouldn't she want to spend the weekends with you, he said I guess. I told him to get a clue. I asked him if she takes care of him when he is sick, he said NO (I knew he layed for days sick and she wasn't even there). He was groveling, begging for information. I finally told him that he wasn't the only man in her life. She was with a man the previous day. He begged me to tell him who, I told him I couldn't disclose that, and he should respect a confidentiality. He asked me if it was a public place, I told him NO it was the man's residence, she was in. Than he really went off, asked me if she kissed him, if she had sex with him, he was very distressed. I told him I was only telling him this for his own good and he had better wake up. He asked me why I didn't tell him before. I couldn't believe it, I told him he wouldn't even talk to me, wouldn't believe me, and had been only project hatefullness towards me. I told him if he asked her, she would just deny it. He said he wouldn't tell her he talked to me. I told him he had better open his eyes, it's right in front of his face. He asked me if I thought he would come to his apt. one day and she and everything would be gone(his thoughts apparently). I told him I didn't know I wasn't GOD but it was a possibility. I told him I was told that she had said that she couldn't stand him, she wanted out, he was too possessive and she couldn't stand it,she only there because she had nowhere else to go and he is supporting her, that she was using him. He said if that was true he would go back and throw her out, I said Oh really. He asked what I meant, I told him that she thought he is so crazy head over heels for her he wouldn't even think about it. I told him when he was out on the street, in the cold, alone, maybe he would finally realize. He asked me pathetically and repeatedly, did I really think he'd be on the street. After an hour of this, he thanked me, said he had to go, he was freezing and sick. He said he would probably end up in the hospital. I ask why, he said he was so upset he was sick. He has a chronic illness, that gets worse under stress, it has gotten progressively worse since he has left home, but he can't see this. <P>He had called me in Jan. and told me he had been in the hospital(this was unusual,he doesn't call me). He said he thought he was going to die(wasn't enough of a wakeup call). I haven't talked to him since Feb. when I called him because I was extremely upset finding out about forclosure on my home. He talked to me an hour, not much help, but telling me what I should do and if anyone could figure it out it was me. Said he couldn't help, he didn't have any money. He was busy, but called me back and talked another hour. He told me to call him the next day. When I called the following day. He very meekly said he couldn't talk, he was busy. Later my phone rang, it was the business number, but I didn't catch it in time. I called back, he said do me a favor, don't call me anymore here. I started asking him why, told him he had talked to me for 2 hrs the day before. Apparently, OW was on the phone, she started yelling and said DON'T EVER CALL HERE AGAIN OR I'LL TAKE YOU OUT FOR HARASSMENT. I haven't called since and he hasn't called me of course. That is until yesterday, I got an urge and called. He asked who is this, I told him and said I just called to see how you are, he said I'm fine, can't talk I'm busy and have customers, than he hung up. <P>I know this is long, but gives the over all picture. I should hate this man for putting me through pure HELL. For some reason I still love, care and worry about him. I think it's a midlife crisis, sometimes I think he doesn't know what he is doing and he has lost his mind. I actually find myself feeling sorry for him. Am I crazy or what? I have thought he is obsessed by OW. I read in MB that it can be an addiction, and that certainly fits. I need some input. Have I lost MY MIND, I want my husband to come home. I remember him as being loving, caring, a different person. Am I in denial? This is so WEIRD! I read somewhere that in a midlife crisis they are also bipolar? I wonder if there is any chance of him coming to his senses and coming back? Thank you for reading this, HELP!!<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Hurtwife (edited June 16, 2001).]

I really don't want to tell anyone what to do, but my best advice would be for you to move on. I learned the hard way after many years of trying that you cannot change another person, only yourself, and that is the hard truth. <P>I happen to have gotten purely lucky that my husband did change on his own, and came back to me, but believe me it's only because he was ready and not because of anything I've done. I think if you started reading books such as "How to get what you want and want what you have" by John Gray and "The road less traveled" by Scott Peck you would start to feel better about yourself, and care less about what this man who doesn't seem to care about you is doing. not facing reality is hurting no one but yourself in the long run. <P>IF he chooses to come back, only after feeling beter about yourself would you have a descent relationship anyhow. Believe me, self esteem is an issue for me right now too, so I really cannot preach. But I know having the perfect man I always wanted here and trying isn't making me happy because I am not happy inside, and it's the same for all of us. I wish you the best. Remember, you cannot truly give or recieve love until you love yourself first, and you are the only person who can make you happy inside. I know it's not easy. Hang in there.<P>

I just can't let this go by without offering some tools you can use to determine if this marriage is worth saving - and they ALL are until you simply can't go another step...<P>Please check out these links and think about what you read... tons of great info... Begin with the General Welcome...<P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000553.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome</A><P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel.html" TARGET=_blank>Counsel Link</A><P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>What Are Plan A and Plan B</A><P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A><P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A><P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>POJA</A><BR><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

BTW- I didn't mean divorce him unless you really feel like new_beginning said that you just can't go another step, and that's your call. <P>But by moving on in your own life and not dwelling on him and working on being happier and more fulfilled in and of yourself I think you will start to feel less crazy- and make a better marriage if it should happen that it works out. Most importantly you will feel better- 9 1/2 months and he is hanging up on you, no contact, I just hate to see anyone hurt themselves by obsessing over things they cannot change. Hope I didn't offend anyone, I am new here.<BR>

Dear Hurtwife:<P>If I've ever heard a story of a WS that sounds more like he's under the influence of an addition, your WS is it.<BR>In fact it sounds like your OW and might could be one and the same.<P>I am uneasy about the amount of involvement you are letting yourself get into with this situation. Sometimes getting that involved will backfire on you....and you'll get hurt.<BR>We try to get them to see what a "bad" person this OW is, demonstrate how badly they are being treated and then see them running right back into it. You will find that there is little the OW can do that will not be exceptable to the WS...at least while the addiction is this great. And if you cause trouble between them, you will get the blame....and you don't want that. <P>What can you do? Well, you've made a good start by coming here. Secondly, back off from your involvement with him unless he seeks you out. Continue to live your life with grace and dignity. You are really too good to get yourself involve in this kind of thing. <P>This is really a problem he must work out for himself...and if you want to wait for this eventuality then you can make it known to him that you will be there for him when he is through with OW, but until such time you don't intend to be involve in this matter....and mean this. Meanwhile, come back here, do the reading that is recommended, see if you can determine what the problem in your marriage was, get some counseling from the Harley if you can afford it...in short work on making yourself a better partner and person.<BR>If this relationship never works out then you will be better prepared for a new relationship. Either way it will be time well spent.<P>We care and if we tell you something you don't want to hear it's because we've been there and we want to help you from traveling the same "bad" road. Let us know what's going on.<P>Faye

Dear Hurtwife,<P>Your situation has the characteristics of many of the stories here. Mine included. Like yourself, we want to pull our H's away from the OW. Yet the best recovery is for the WS to make that decision themselves. With best intentions the BS often embarks on a crusade to make problems between the OW & WS or do whatever to bring the WS<BR>the home. <P>This was where my mind was stuck for about 3 months after d/d. Thanks to many here who were persistent in helping me, I finally learned the best thing for me was to strengthen myself, be the one to protect & love my family, reassure H that I loved him but would not permit his behavior in my home. Once H moved out of the house, I no longer was able to control nor should I try to control his actions. H noticed that immediately. He tried to say that I did not care for him any longer. That far from the truth. I told H that my time and energy could only be spent on those who lived at home and he was basically on his own. Eventually, I was able to put a type of plan B into affect. This was because having a child involved, H had to have some contact. Discussions were limited to finances, mail and children. Within 2 months, H was asking to come home. This time it was with stipulations. Cut off all contact with OW, change phone numbers (cell,pager, etc.) and close all e-mail accounts. The only way OW could then contact H was either by call ME at work, come by our home and H said if she did, h was moving. <P>Everyone is different. As you can see, there is a lot of support here. The best thing is to hear what these folks (who have been through a lot have to say), read the info here, schedule a session with Steve or Jennifer Harley or get with a good counselor. There is also another book that has been helpful called Love must be tough by Dr. James Dobson. Here is also a post to the 5 steps to grieving that may be helpful.<P> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/002494.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/002494.html</A> <P>In this post is also a post about how to break this down into steps that recognize more of our feelings and how to deal with it. This helped me put things in better perspective. Instead of being overwhelmed into trying to fix everything, I learned to evaluate and concentrate on what was important and what I could impact or change. This helped my focus and let me see real progress. <P>This is a long process. Being mentally set for what is ahead is half the battle. You do your part and then you need to wait for your H to do his. If he does not or shows finally that he will not (because sometimes it goes both ways up & down, up & down over & over again - called waffling), then you will be strong enough to go on with your life. <P>This is a win situation at least for you and your family. Those who chose not to participate with you in this recovery only have themselves to blame when their world collapses on them. Your H may be deep in the fog of despair regarding his status in life. He is probably not happy with himself right now. This can be viewed as a plus if you view it with recovery in view. How? Well, I will let you chew on what I have written above and I will post later. Maybe someone else will write more on this point. <P>I am not doing this to keep the suspense, it is just that I have dumped a lot of info and don't want to overload you. <P>Take Care, <BR>L.<BR>

ScaredInNY:<BR>Thanks for the input. I know what your are saying. I'm trying to find myself again. It's just hard. I try to be positive. I know I can't change him, only he can do that and who knows if that will happen. I know the possibility is there, but than again it may never happen and I know I have to deal with that. Good luck to you. <P><BR>[This message has been edited by Hurtwife (edited May 03, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Hurtwife (edited May 03, 2001).]

new-beginning:<BR>Thank you for the links. I've already read a lot. I just don't know where to go from here. There appears there is nothing I can do, it's his choice not mine.

Orchid:<BR>This is a win situation at least for you and your family. Those who chose not to participate with you in this recovery only have themselves to blame when their world collapses on them.<P>I’m not sure of what you meant by this. Could you please elaborate. My brain doesn’t think too clearly, sorry. <P>Your H may be deep in the fog of despair regarding his status in life. He is probably not happy with himself right now.<P>I think your right, deep deep fog. I don’t see how he could be happy. But, I also feel and have told him that he is looking for happiness in all the wrong places. I told him he is not going to be happy until he deals with the deep seeded issues inside of himself. And that he will not find happiness in new cars, materialistic objects, or OW, maybe a temporary short happiness of something new and different. <P>This can be viewed as a plus if you view it with recovery in view. How? Well, I will<BR>let you chew on what I have written above and I will post later. <P>OK, I’ve chewed on a lot..LOL. You’ve got me interested, please tell me more.<P>I am not doing this to keep the suspense, it is just that I have dumped a lot of info and don't want to overload you.<P>I don’t think I will overload...I’ve already done that, with the circumstances. Hope to<BR>hear more. Thank you.<P>Since we have no contact with H, I don’t know how I can do Plan A. I’d like opinions on writing to him, I’ve been contemplating this.<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Hurtwife (edited May 04, 2001).]

buffy:<BR>If I've ever heard a story of a WS that sounds more like he's under the influence of an addition, your WS is it.<P>I agree that it appears to be an addiction. <P>In fact it sounds like your OW and might could be one and the same.<P>I wasn't really sure what you me about OW and might could be one and the same?<P>I am uneasy about the amount of involvement you are letting yourself get into with this situation. Sometimes getting that involved will backfire on you....and you'll get hurt.<BR>We try to get them to see what a "bad" person this OW is, demonstrate how badly they are being treated and then see them running right back into it. <P>I know what you are saying...the conversation I had with her was back in Sept., when I first found out. I don't care to have any contact with her, she was the one that showed up on my doorstep. That's why I got the order of protection against her. I haven't talked to H since probably Feb. <P> You will find that there is little the OW can do that will not be exceptable to the WS...at least while the addiction is this great. And if you cause trouble between them, you will get the blame....and you don't want that. <P>I understand what you are saying and agree totally, she can do no wrong. I'm not even evolved with them. He blames everything on me, things I don't even know what he is talking about. He seems to be paranoid.<P>What can you do? Well, you've made a good start by coming here. Secondly, back off from your involvement with him unless he seeks you out.<P>That's about what I have done. Since we have no contact, I was wondering if I should write to him, Plan A? <P>This is really a problem he must work out for himself...and if you want to wait for this eventuality then you can make it known to him that you will be there for him when he is through with OW, but until such time you don't intend to be involve in this matter....and mean this. <P>I know he needs to work this out, no doubt. There must have been issues also in are marriage EN not being met, etc. I believe it was also a lack of communication, he never expressed EN needs or feelings to me about what was really bothering him. I can see some things in myself, looking back. <P>Thanks for the help.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Hurtwife (edited May 04, 2001).]

Hi Hurtwife:<P>Sorry, my fingers sometimes don't get the message my brain is sending. I meant that your WS's OW, from the way you describe her, would also be my WS's OW. The kinda woman you would wonder why anyone would be obsessed with her...well, I know why my WS is....Sex!!!!! But I consider that her occupation, so she should be good at it.<P>No contact since February? Has he discussed divorce at any time? That's a long time to stay in limbo with no movement in either direction. I can't give you much advise about dealing with no contact since my WS is in my face every day and has been since the A started. I put in a post for Lora to come give you some advise since she dealt with no contact for months and then he came home.<P>I don't see anything wrong with trying to contact him through a letter....a nice Plan A letter...you could possibly explain how you feel about the situation....that you still see hope that your marriage can be repaired...that you've been doing some thinking and can see how you failed him in some ways and that you are willing to change...wondering since it had been some time since you heard from him how he was doing...perhaps extend an invitation to talk...about the status of your marriage...all you'll really be doing is opening a door for him to come through if he's ready. His reply should give you an idea of his feelings and you can go from there. You certainly have the right to know where your marriage is going...even if it's nowhere. <P>I don't think however that you should get in the middle again...if he has complains about the OW...just acknowledge his conplaints and be sympathetic....don't get involved....be a good friend and listen but don't let him draw you in....which is what he has done in the past. <P>I will tell you this...the BS is the biggest thorn in OW's side....she doesn't want him to see you...hear from you...talk to you...or have anything to do with you...because you are her biggest threat....and she knows it. But you're still married and that gives you rights she doesn't have....including the right to have contact with him...if you feel you need to.<P>Faye

buffy:<BR>My reply:<BR>Sorry, my fingers sometimes don't get the message my brain is sending. I meant that your WS's OW, from the way you describe her, would also be my WS's OW. The kinda woman you would wonder why anyone would be obsessed with her...well, I know why my WS is....Sex!!!!! But I consider that her occupation, so she should be good at it.<P>No contact since February? Has he discussed divorce at any time? That's a long time to stay in limbo with no movement in either direction. I can't give you much advise about dealing with no contact since my WS is in my face every day and has been since the A started. I put in a post for Lora to come give you some advise since she dealt with no contact for months and then he came home.<P>I don't see anything wrong with trying to contact him through a letter....a nice Plan A letter...you could possibly explain how you feel about the situation....that you still see hope that your marriage can be repaired...that you've been doing some thinking and can see how you failed him in some ways and that you are willing to change...wondering since it had been some time since you heard from him how he was doing...perhaps extend an invitation to talk...about the status of your marriage...all you'll really be doing is opening a door for him to come through if he's ready. His reply should give you an idea of his feelings and you can go from there. You certainly have the right to know where your marriage is going...even if it's nowhere. <P>I don't think however that you should get in the middle again...if he has complains about the OW...just acknowledge his conplaints and be sympathetic....don't get involved....be a good friend and listen but don't let him draw you in....which is what he has done in the past. <P>That call was the only time he got like that about her. This was back in Dec. last year. I probably know more about her than he does. I told him I was only telling him the truth for his own good and he was begging me to know. A friend said he called me because he needed someone to talk to and he knows how I am. H always called me before with problems or wanted my advice.<P>I will tell you this...the BS is the biggest thorn in OW's side....she doesn't want him to see you...hear from you...talk to you...or have anything to do with you...because you are her biggest threat....and she knows it. <P>I believe this too, you saying it only confirms my thoughts exactly. Friends that went with me to court with OW said she constantly starred at me the entire time, everytime she see me she doesn't take her eyes off me. I'm not conceited, but I think she is jealous. <P> But you're still married and that gives you rights she doesn't have....including the right to have contact with him...if you feel you need to.<P>This is how I feel about it also, but H doesn't, he acts like I'm nobody. He has never been the type of person to be under someone's control like he appears to be under hers. I wouldn't doubt she didn't tell him if he talks to me she is out of there. I don't know it's so weird. <P>Since I discovered OW back in Sept. I haven't seen him, except for when he went to court with her. He saw me walking down the hall and even turned around and faced the wall. Now is that rediculous and childish. He was looking right at my mother and a friend than, soon as he saw them he turned and faced the wall too. <P>Thanks so much for your response. I wish I had known this site was here earlier, before I have already gone through this for almost 10 months. I wonder if there is a breaking point of time to wonder if he will ever possibly come back or come to his senses. <P><p>[This message has been edited by Hurtwife (edited May 04, 2001).]

Hi Hurtwife,<P>My story is a little different as my H OW was someone he worked with and married herself with kids, so she was not a crazy person like yours seems to be. But I did deal with a long term affair then no contact with my H for a long while. His affair went on for a year as I tried to plan A with him at home. Finally I asked him to leave and did not hear one word from him for 4 months, then we talked and after anothe 4 months he asked to come home.<P>When he was gone I did write him letters. I tried not to call him although I did once to tell him that OW husband was calling me and once about some bills. The letters were just little updates about what was happening around the house, the neighborhood, with the cat, anything I could think of to make a little news and connection. No pressure. <BR>I didnt talk about OW, except to say I did not want to be involved in their drama with her and her H. I worked on trying to move on and get stonger myself, went to counseling, posted here. <P>And just when I was ready to give up, he asked to come home. OW had become annoying. She was possesvie and always on him about what he was doing where he was. calling all the time. So you need to look like a safe and sane alturnative to the craziness that is his relationship with OW. I would not get into their relationship any more, leave it to him to reslove. You cannot educate him or talk him out of it. Let him see how it is without you as part of the triangle.<P>Lora

Lora:<BR> So glad to see your response. OW does seem to be a crazy person, among other things. I think the poor thing has many problems to say the least. <P>We have no childen together, I have 2 steps, I don't see anymore. I worry about them. Do you mind if I ask if you did? So your h moved out for 8 months? When he asked to come home did he initiate that move, did he call you? <P>I haven't written him yet, but I'm thinking about it. He has just been so nasty to me, and won't talk to me. I've just been leaving him alone and trying to do my best to get my life together. <P>I'm debating whether to write him. Don't know really what to write. Wonder if I should write him a Plan A letter? Any advice would be appreciated. I wish I had know of MB when this started, I just found this almost 10 months afterwards. <P>I've never talked to him nasty or raised my voice, it's not my nature. I believe fighting, yelling is a waste. I also really watch what I say, I know how it is to hurt, so I try not to say anything hurtful to anyone else, even when he did,I don't even go there. I do think I'm safe & sane, I've tried to convey this to H. I tried to put it in the proper prospective, that he has a problem and is dealing with hurt and turmoil inside himself, therefore his lashing out in anger is really the hurt he has inside, so I try not to take it personally, that way it doesn't hurt me. Maybe I'm wrong but that's what I think. I don't want to be in the triangle, that's why I don't call him. OW seems possessive and controling of H, he acts like a beaten puppy, it's so weird, I figure that is his problem. <P>Thanks much for the input. <P>

Hi Hurtwife,<BR> We have no children so there was nothing to keep us in contact. If you are going to write to him I would just write as to a friend, just news about you and try and open a door of communication. <P>When H was gone I was still going to his family events. His Mom told him I would be there at Thanksgiving and he never showed up after saying he would. I wrote him a note and said I knew they wanted to see him and if my being there at Christmas meant he would not, to let me know and I would not go. But I said I wanted to see him and that I hoped it could open some communication between us, and I guess it did, because he started calling me after that, stopping by to get things from the house, then he came to do the taxes and took me out to dinner. Of course he found time to go on a vacation to Hawaii with OW, but after that he came over and we went to dinner and a movie and he asked if he could move back in. OW showed up at the door and he was finally fed up with her.<P>So, I would write him, write with absolutely no expectaions of hearing back, I never had one response, but I see he has kept all of my letters. Just be kind and yourself, remind him of the person you are and let the comparison to OW put you in a better light. He probably is guilty and ashamed and would not know how to approach you even if he did want to, so just start with friendship.<BR>Lora<P>

Hi Hurtwife,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Orchid:<BR><B>Dear Hurtwife,<P>Your H may be deep in the fog of despair regarding his status in life. He is probably not happy with himself right now. This can be viewed as a plus if you view it with recovery in view. How? Well, I will let you chew on what I have written above and I will post later. Maybe someone else will write more on this point. <P>I am not doing this to keep the suspense, it is just that I have dumped a lot of info and don't want to overload you. <P>Take Care, <BR>L.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>As promised, I will continue my post. You have been given a lot of good information and like yourself I soaked up as much as I could. Here is the additional piece of info I would like to share with you. Step back and see right now. You have been dealing with this issue for around 10 months. Now I ask, where are your needs. Can you afford to continue working on your husbands needs (plan A) or do you need to protect your needs (plan B). While both can work on recovering your marriage, your current condition will help determine which plan you need to be in. <P>I recommend a counseling session with Jennifer or Steve Harley. After they help assess your situation, they will be able to help you draft a plan a or b letter. Their coaching will also help you be effective for the times you are able to deal with your H. Remember silence also teaches and reaches out to them. <P>Use your opportunities to communicate with him well. Learn to stratagize so that you get the biggest bang for your buck. Stimulate his gray cells and get him thinking. This helps him come back to reality. <P>OW's live in a fantasy world and your H is trying to live in it also. It is fun to 'play' house at first, but ongoing? That takes real love. Enduring love is not something most A's have. Pretend they must because it is all a charade. <P>Step back and allow the charade to play out and fall flat on its face. For some this is what needs to happen before the light of day sets in. In the meantime, strenghten yourself. Create your support groups. Don't be afraid if you suffer from anxiety attacks. This is not a sign of a weak character. Instead know that it is your body's way of releasing the stress that you are carrying. <P>Eventually, your problem will minimize itself and you will be able to take on your normal tasks. You may not even realize how much better you are feeling. <P>One way to vent (besides here) is by keeping a journal. That journal is also helpful to help you & your H recall what really happened - way back when. Keep communicating here. Many know what you are going through. Many have been there and survived. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.<P><BR>

Lora:<P>RE: So, I would write him, write with absolutely no expectations of hearing back. <P>***I read your response, I've been reading, reading, reading. Also, trying to digest all this information. Because I have an analytical mind, I think I think to much. Taking into consideration WS/H extremely hateful attitude towards me and his relentless efforts to express comments like: don't you get it it's over, get on with your life and out of mine. A switch from the I still love you, care about you, still want to be friends at the beginning. I guess he is deep in FOG. From what I have read this is common. I even told him one time, no one would possibly be able to distinguish what you really mean and what you don't. He has a habit of spouting off at the mouth, before engaging brain (if he even has any left in all this FOG?) He contradicts himself, guess it's hard to keep the lies straight. I think it was on Dr. Laura, that she said men lash out in anger, don't take it personally because it is really the hurt little boy inside of them, covering up because of the macho thing, to make them less vulnerable. I try to put the anger he projects towards me in the perspective that it is really because he is hurting inside. That way I don't take it personally and it doesn't hurt me. I guess my compassionate side feels for his pain as well as my own. Nobody wins in these situations. On the other hand I wonder if they have a conscience or quilt why they are doing this? Reading in here has clarified a lot of things so I guess it is the FOG, EN, and whatever they are missing inside trying to fulfill. Not that this is right to rob destructively from everyone else to fulfill their own selfish needs.<P>In contemplating all this I decided to go with your suggestion and my urge and write H. Just to touch base and say remember me "I'm still here". I kept it lighthearted, just wrote about the antics of the dogs. (By the way, they were his dogs, one he even had since he was a puppy and before I knew him. He dumpted the dogs too!) I put a picture of them with little word balloons, as if they were saying Hi, also paw print like it was their signature. I mailed it yesterday. Do you think this might be a little reminder? I don't expect to hear from him. With what he has displayed, he might even get mad, who knows? <P>RE: He probably is guilty and ashamed and would not know how to approach you even if he did want to, so just start with friendship.<P>***I don't know, I hope he feels quilty and ashamed, I often wonder. He did seem to appear a little at first, but than turned into displaying anger and distancing himself. <P>Thanks for your input, advice. It does help to hear from someone that's been there. I wish I had found this site sooner. It has helped. <P>[This message has been edited by Hurtwife (edited May 06, 2001).]<P>[This message has been edited by Hurtwife (edited May 06, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Hurtwife (edited May 06, 2001).]

Please ignore this....I messed up and had dupliate posts. Sorry.<p>[This message has been edited by Hurtwife (edited May 06, 2001).]

Orchid:<P>RE: Step back and see right now. You have been dealing with this issue for around 10 months. Now I ask, where are your needs. Can you afford to continue working on your husbands needs (plan A) or do you need to protect your needs (plan B). While both can work on recovering your marriage, your current condition will help determine which plan you need to be in.<P> *** I'm not sure what you mean by "where are your needs" (plan A). It seems to me it would be hard to implement Plan A, because on his behalf...he doesn't want to communicate. He appears to have just shoved me away, disgarded, like I don't even exists. Any contact, has been on my behalf, and I've stopped calling him, because of what he has projected. I think he is too deep in the FOG and addicted. I did just write him a letter (if you read the post I wrote Lora it explains). So I really don't see how I can Plan A? I guess I've sort of been on Plan B or no contact, not by choice, but because he has expressed that is what he wants, no doubt the addicive OW wants this, and seems to have control over him at this point. <P>------------------------------------------------------------<P>RE: I recommend a counseling session with Jennifer or Steve Harley. After they help assess your situation, they will be able to help you draft a plan a or b letter. Their coaching will also help you be effective for the times you are able to deal with your H. Remember silence also teaches and reaches out to them. <P> *** How would I arrange counseling session? I don't know about silence with H, seems more like out of site or contact....out of mind.<P>------------------------------------------------------------<P>RE: Use your opportunities to communicate with him well. Learn to stratagize so that you get the biggest bang for your buck. Stimulate his gray cells and get him thinking. This helps him come back to reality. <P> *** That's the problem, he won't communicate no opportunities, that really kind of limits me, at least in my eyes. Unless you have some suggestions, I opened to any. <P>------------------------------------------------------------<P>RE: OW's live in a fantasy world and your H is trying to live in it also. It is fun to 'play' house at first, but ongoing? That takes real love. Enduring love is not something most A's have. Pretend they must because it is all a charade.<P> *** I agree, I wonder if he has any real love, or even knows what it is. As far as OW, I know she can't even fathom the meaning of real LOVE. Considering she was living with another man, playing her husband (to get back together)...when...she moved in with my husband. (What's that tell you?) <P>RE: Step back and allow the charade to play out and fall flat on its face. For some this is what needs to happen before the light of day sets in. In the meantime, strenghten yourself. Create your support groups. Don't be afraid if you suffer from anxiety attacks. This is not a sign of a weak character. Instead know that it is your body's way of releasing the stress that you are carrying. <P> *** That's kind of what I have been doing, what else is there to do? Since he is being the way he is, I think I have no choice. Meantime I'm just watching him sink lower.<BR>Yes, I do have anxiety attacks. I even had a couple of panic attacks early on, that was horrible, here by myself and couldn't even breath. (thank God I haven't had anymore of those) <P> **** Thank you so much for coming back with information, advice, it's been encouraging. I'm glad I finally found this site, too bad it wasn't earlier. Take Care.<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Hurtwife (edited May 06, 2001).]

Sorry, I messed up.<p>[This message has been edited by Hurtwife (edited May 06, 2001).]