Here is the following plan that will hopefully keep you from commiting adultery, destroying your self esteem, hurting your husband and destroying your marriage. QUIT YOUR JOB IMMEDIATELY, BE HONEST WITH YOUR HUSBAND, AND GET THERAPY TO FIND OUT WHY YOU ARE BEHAVING IN THIS MANNER.

struggling-<P>I was in NO way trying to bash you! Honest I was not. But when I read what you wrote it was the words of the OW coming back to slap my face yet again.<P>Of course you can do it-all you need is the will. I know you want to-I can tell it from what you write here. But you don't know how to give up the OM. I can't help you there. I am the BS. But I can say this.............you want both. You want it all to work out right-to be able to be married to your H and keep the OM as a friend. I am sorry but that will not work.<P>The OW in my H's A was my friend. We were friends for over 5 years. D-Day for me was June 1, 1999. In October 2000 the OW contacted me and we tried to get our friendship back. It didn't happen. Her H didn't like her being in contact with me. I am innocent in this and yet his words are "she is a reminder of him".<P>I would have liked to have been able to have gotten past this-the loss of trust and the loss of a friend both have been very painful.<P>But it isn't fair to hate the OM because he persues you. You did make yourself available to him at one time. Now you have to make yourself unavailable.<P>I know I make it sound easy and I know it isn't easy. But I think the less you fight trying to do it in a way that can keep things at a friendship level the easier it will be. I know what you mean about having to go on with your day as if all is normal too. I have been there. My H and my best friend had a 2 year affair. One day we were all friends-the next not at all. We live in a small town. These are choices that we all make. And if you deal with it head on you will fare much better I am sure.<P><P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."

It is me again. I went back and re-read what you had written.<P>I truly feel that Rodger gave you more of a bashing-an honest one-than I did. I thought all I did was ask you a question and explain my reason for asking. And you confuse me-just like the OW has been doing for almost 2 years now. You say................. <P><BR>But, in answer to your question, I would say that the pursuit has been 80/20, 80 him 20 me. BUT the problem has been whenever I make a strong move, i.e. tellhim to leave me alone, etc. he respects that and then I can't stand that... I want to hear from him but for all the reasons I think are ok, I just want to hear what is going on with him, just want to make sure he is ok. etc. Which is bull, I am grasping at straws, it is like someone said earlier, its like i want my cake and to eat it too. <P>First you say you hate the OM because he persues you and now this. I am simply confused. I really am. You see-------I try to understand the position of the betrayer as well as the position of the betrayed. And you say one thing and then the opposite. I hate to compare you to the OW in my situation but that is why I am here talking with you-you sound just like her.<P>How can I convey to you my hurt from my situation without making you feel like I am bashing you?<P>My best friend screwed my H-for 2 years-without me having a single clue. I was used badly by two people I cared deeply about. I lost faith and trust in people twice as bad as most.<P>But from day one I have felt if I hate the OW then I must hate my H. If I blame the OW 100% I must blame my H 100%. I am trying to get you to see that it is a 50/50 deal. AS long as you allow the OM to call you, speak to you,see you or anything you are just as involved as he is.<P>It angers me when anyone-I am not saying you but anyone-does what he/she wants for as long as they want and then when the game is over for them they turn on the other half of the affair and blame them.<P>Yes I know that a person might try to call off a relationship and the other party persues them endlessly-but you can stop that too.<P>This is where the honesty comes in-you have to be ready to face up to what has taken place-and once you do that then you can take the whole world on and win-but you can't keep some parts of this in the closet and expect to just quit playing.<P>I wish you well-I would not want to be in the betrayers shoes ever-even though I have felt there is no pain comparable to that of the BS.<P>JUST DO IT I know you can.<P><BR>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."<p>[This message has been edited by heartache (edited May 04, 2001).]

I can say no more than MAX. If my strong words did not do the trick I don't know what will. <P>Above all strive for simplicity. Don't look for the complex. Look at the basics. This is not complicated. Do what MAX says that's all there is to it. If you cannot then you are addicted and need professional help. It is very dangerous what you are doing. <P>If we can avoid one more affair from happening, prevent one more life from being ruined forever wouldn't that be great. I hope you will just do it. Think simple. You don't need a lot of advice. Don't look for some nice posting to help you. What you are doing is wrong and stupid. Come to your senses. When a woman does this to a man that loves her or a man does this to the wife that loves him, there is no greater crime. It's horrible. The spouse that is betrayed will feel like killing himself. Do you want that on your hands too. You can't predict what stress will do to even the most stable of people. If it wasn't for my children I would have considered it but probably would not have done it because I have more sense. But the feeling is that strong when a spouse betrays. <P>You have already betrayed. Now own up to it with your husband. Quit your job. Get some professional help. We do not know your psychological background or history and cannot help you completely. We can just tell you what is right and what is wrong and to share how awful it feels to be betrayed. You will never understand this until it happens to you. <P>Think simple, simple, simple. Don't keep looking for a post that will make you feel good. There is none. There can be none. The solution is simple. Please respond back to this board with the following information. 1) I told my husband. 2) I quit my job. 3) I am going to councelling. 4) I am happy I did this. I guarantee you will not be sorry for what you did. I guarantee you will be very sorry for what you did if you carry on. It is time to grow up and take charge of your emotional side. <P>There are a million beautiful men you can have affairs with. Is this what life is all about? Why did you marry your husband anyway? If he was good enough then, he is good enough now. There is no perfect man. Only there are more irresponsible men for you who will gladly destroy your marriage for you. To many men women are still just toys to be played with. Why does he really want you? Because you are making yourself available. Many men will jump at the chance to have sex with any woman who will let them. You want to be this kind of woman? You want to submit to this kind of man? We are more than animals. We are more than children who just like ice cream. <P>Come on, you are a grown educated woman. For heaven's sake tell your husband now!!!!!!! I hope to read a positive post from you next to say you did what MAX said. Otherwise I will be very very disappointed in you. <p>[This message has been edited by Rodger (edited May 03, 2001).]

Hi struggling. Sorry you feel like you're taking a bashing on the board (heck of an MB baptism) but please try to understand that people want to help you. Nobody is condemning you here. Most of the people on this board have been much further down the road you've got your feet on and they know what you're headed for. They've had their lives ruined by exactly the game you're playing and that hurt fuels their responses to you.<P>I think one of the reasons people seem impatient with you is that you still haven't said to us, "Okay, I'm going to try my best to end this, please support me." Instead, you tell us that you can't do it or it's his fault or his effort that keeps you in this situation. The BSs, in particular, can react badly to this kind of flip-flopping--they watched their WSs do it and it tore their hearts out. <P>Here's my recommendation: tell the OM again, with no room for argument, that this contact must end. Quit your job if you can, but if for whatever reason you can't, refuse to speak to the OM on the phone, refuse to speak to him in person, refuse to answer his emails. It's not as hard as you think, but you've got to believe you can do it. I did it. Other people have done it. You can do it, too, and you will do it because that's what's right and that's what you want. When I ended contact with the OW, I gave myself three days to think and feel anything I wanted, as long as I didn't contact her. Those were three of the lowest days of my life, but I got through them and considered that an accomplishment, and that gave me the strength to face the the next three days and the next three after that. It is literally one minute at a time in the beginning, struggling, but you have power to control what you do. You can exercise it. No question.<P>Please tell your husband what's going on here. He has to know what he's up against so he can decide what he wants to do about it. It's unfair of you to keep him in the dark on it. How can he help you if he doesn't know?<P>I know how hard this is. Others around here know even better than I do. I don't know how we get ourselves into these situations, but it doesn't matter now, right? You're in it and you can get out of it before it becomes destructive. You're a good person and a sincere person or you wouldn't be here. All of us know you can do it, struggling. Try.

Struggling-<BR>I'm sorry you have taken a beating here. I was upset yesterday with Roger's post. Roger, or anyone, has the right on these public forums to express his opinions. I heard in your tone that you are struggling, and reaching out for help and support. I hope that Roger and others actually do mean well and want to help you. If they don't, they shouldn't post. <P>I feel like these forums are to help people get through some really tough problems. I personally think that we should read our posts, and ask ourselves if we are trying to help someone, honestly, or are we taking our own anger and frustrations out on a fragile stranger. For the BS, like Roger, if your spouse, while in the "fog" came to a place like MB, and she received such a "bashing" that she turned away without getting the help she was seeking, that, too, would be a tragedy.<P>Knowing what your emotional situation is probably like right now, I wouldn't have been surprised if you didn't come back here. Good for you that you did.<P>Remember, the people here at MB are not professionals. Try to think about what you are told, and take the advice that will work. You are moving in the right direction.

I agree with all that has been said to you, I hope you listen. I can't really add much, because it is all there for you.<P>To me it sounds like you possibly don't even like this older guy, but for some reason you are enjoying the "infatuation"..it doesn't sound like anything special about the older guy, just that you are caught up in the FEELINGS that infatuation can give. But we all know this always fades away. I don't know, that's just how it appears to me.<P>Look really, really hard at what you have in your husband. Once I read somewhere on these boards that a woman in your situation was driving home, contemplating her situation and something hit her (can't remember exactly what she said), but basically was that she thought how she would feel if she were to lose her H tomorrow, say from a fatal accident (God forbid) or possibly HE came to her and said "I've found someone else, I don't love you, goodbye". Her answer was, in a nutshell, devastated. Then she thought how she would feel if her OM came and said same thing..hurt or saddened but not devastated..you get the picture. <P>That may sound simplistic, but you need to put yourself in that situation. If you pursue this OM, and things escalate between the two of you, your husband will find out someday, and he could possibly not be able to love you again. Do you really want that? Are you ready to give up his love? That could be a consequence to a bad choice.You should be able to face all the worst case scenarios if you choose this OM.<P>My spin on this to share with you is: don't take your husband for granted. You may lose him. He sounds like a good man from what you've posted.

struggling:<P>Did you get your appointment??? Please keep it. Although these boards can be very helpful, it will be easier on you if you just listen to Steve or Jenn---and follow the advice (and question it if you don't agree with it---they both have excellent skills in explaining and clarifying these issues).<P>Most everyone around here means well. One of the reasons people are jumping hard is because you're so early in, and you have lots of hope to save this marriage without the pain that so many here have gone through.<P>Good luck and God Bless YOU!<P>

Hello all. Yesterday was such a rough day, and I really appreciate all of you coming back and trying to help me. Here it is plain and simple:<P>I WILL END THIS ... I WILL DO THE RIGHT THING ... I HAVE A GREAT JOB (where I don't have to see him at all for months, after tomorrow) AND I DON'T WANT HIM RUNNING ME OUT OF HERE. <BR>I will tell him tomorrow that I absoutely CANNOT accept any form of contact with him and I PROMISE That i will stick to it. I promise. all of you cant' be wrong. WHAT I HAVE DONE IS HORRIBLE. I AM TAKING OWNERSHIP AND i AM DISGUSTED IN MYSELF FOR DOING WHAT I HAVE DONE. <P>I need to get back to working on things with my husband and really telling him that I need his help. He loves me so much that he just has confidence that I can handle this. I have again betrayed his trust by not handling it at all. <P>It hurts so bad and makes me sick inside to read all of these posts, and the thing that does get me through IS knowing that I have not done irreparable damage, that is all I have to hold on to. You all jumped on me because you want to "save" me. AND I NEED TO BE SAVED. I will get professional help, because although I am a very put-together young woman, I have obvious issues with self esteem (especially after this) and I need to get help. I believe as well that after I go for a while my husband will go with me. <P>I have been feeling sorry for myself, it is the guilt I think. Sorry that this has happened, sorry that I wasn't disciplined enough, etc. Its all BULL, I am in control of my own destiny here and need to handle it. <P>So,<BR>1. I will discuss with my husband<BR>2. I will tell OM not to contact me at all anymore<BR>(I really like what Clarity said about setting goals like do not talk to or about OM for 3 days, then it will just keep getting easier) <BR>3. I will get professional help.<P>Thank you all very much. I may even look into a group that meets face to face in my area. Clarity, this is for you:<P>"Okay, I'm going to end this, please support me." :-)

You've got our support, struggling. You're doing the right thing!<P>It's going to be hard for the next little while. The venerable SKM told me that when she was tempted to contact the OM, she forced herself to do something nice for her husband, to turn her temptation into energy to meet his needs. I did that and it does help. Put yourself far away from the places the OM can find you and the things he can use to contact you this weekend. Just bunker down and let the storm come if it's going to come, just DON'T contact him, okay? You can do it. I believe in you. We're proud of you for making this decision.<P>Stick around, too. Sometimes you might just need to read through the board to occupy your mind and strengthen your resolve. You can do it!

thank you clarity, thank you so much. please pray for my strength tomorrow. I WILL DO THE RIGHT THING ... and I will be back to you guys after that to brag about how well I did!! :-)

struggling:<P>One reason that I want you to call the MB counseling center (and try to worm into an appointment TODAY) is because they would likely be available to your husband to talk with him, after you told them.<P>It may not be necessary, but it's a good fall-back plan. It also demonstrates your willingness to work on the issues and that you're considering the pain he may be in. I hope that you'll consider it.

struggling27,<P>You have been given good, if a bit harsh, advice. I am glad to see that today, after consideration you have decided to take action. However, you may find it hard to not contact the OM, most people in affairs do. There are two things that can help you.<P>Many people in the past have used this board as a place to come, when they are feeling the strong urge to contact the OM. Yes, you may be trading one addiction for another, this place can be addictive. But the people here will give you strength.<P>The other thing you can do, and it will help you more is to tell your H. It will hurt him, but you said something in your last post that is wrong. You said he expected you to handle it. Wrong on his part and wrong on your part. You two are a team. You need his help now, and you will need his help in the future of your marriage. He will need your help in the future, when jobs go south, he is down, Mid Life Crisis, whatever.<P>More than anything if you learn to trust your H and he you, so that you can talk about tough things, deep things, you will make your marriage something very very special. You may even look back on this emotional affair, as the event that really made your marriage great. <P>struggling27, you can do this but what would help you alot is if you feel the urge to contact OM, you called H instead and told how you feel and how you feel about H. He can help you through this... addiction. <P>Please follow the steps you have laid out. But also go to the book store and by two books His Needs Her Needs and Surviving an Affair both by Harley. There are other books and people here can recommend them. However, I know these two books will help you and your H see this affair for what it is.<P>There is every reason to expect that not only will your marrige survive, but that it will be better than ever once you and your H learn the mechanics of a marriage. It is in those books. It isn't even rocket science. <P>God Bless,<P>JL

I wrote this response for another OW who asked the same questions you do, about a year ago....<P>"""Think of me as generic brand 'Wife X'......but most importantly, I am a wife.<P>I would like to think I have permission to represent a nice percentage of wives when I say this to you......<P><BR>Dear OW,<P><BR>I AM A WIFE....<P>so, <P><BR>please don't do this to me.<P><BR>please don't do this to my marriage.<P><BR>please don't do this to my children.<P>you don't even know me, so please do not do this to another human being that shares the planet with you.<P>how do you know that anything my husband has told you is true?.<P>I love my husband with every fiber of my being....do you know that?...I sleep with one of his shirts whenever he is away - because it smells like him....<P>Do you know that he lies...and tells me he loves me everyday?<P>my children love their daddy, and the theft of their innocence and joy, and the knowledge of betrayal will impact them for the rest oftheir lives....they love and believe in their daddy and would like to grow up with him in their home.<P>please, ask my husband to get a divorce, and that if he truly loves you and wants to be with you, that when he is 'uncommited', he can expect to be greeted by you with open arms.<P>please, until then, give my marriage, my heart, my life, my children and my very soul, the chance it and they deseve before you so this.<P>please realize that you are worth more than this.<P>please think that taking the moral high ground may earn you some self-respect.<P>remember that taking the moral high ground is the right thing to do.<P><BR>please don't help my husband do this to my life......<P>let him do it by himself, if need be.<P><BR>please don't do this to me.<P><BR>please don't do this to my marriage.<P><BR>please don't do this to my children.<P><BR> - a wife.<P><P>------------------<BR>"The journey into darkness has been long and cruel, and you have gone deep into it."<BR>~ A Course in Miracles

Powerful stuff, <B>soulloss</B>!!<P><B>struggling</B>,<P>Remember, I've been where you are.<P>I urge you to follow <B>K</B>'s advice and call the Harley's for an appointment asap. You will need help to get through this. <P>You feel strong today, but tomorrow, or next Wednesday, you may not. It's the nature of the *beast* (affairs) that you will go back and forth as you travel down this road to recovery... and when you tell your H the whole truth (which you must!) he will be angry, and the OM will look all that much better to you... I KNOW.<P>

Good Morning struggling-<P>I jsut wanted to say-I don't think you have been feeling sorry for yourself-although you know you better than I do-HA<P>I think it is F-E-A-R!!!!<P>And I sure can't blame you for being afraid.<P>But once you do it and it is behind you it will be like a trip to the dentist-not so bad after it is over and done with.<P>I will be thinking of you. You got wise very early in the game-this is a good thing <P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."<p>[This message has been edited by heartache (edited May 04, 2001).]

Hi Struggling27,<P>That was a good response. I am very happy you are doing the right thing. I am not trying to jump all over you. I am just trying to prevent you from making a big mistake. Really I am trying to help.<P>A lady I knew had Eczema most of her life. She went to all the doctors and none could help. She was Chinese and also consulted many Chinese doctors. Then one day she met an 87 year old doctor. He gave her some very strong medicine that she had to boil and drink each day for a week. After one week her condition totally cleared up. He told her that most doctors are scared. They are afraid if they give too strong a dose, it might kill the person. SO they only give half and the patient is never cured. This doctor gave the strongest dose he thought the lady could handle and she was cured of a lifetime ailment. <P>I saw many posts were just too weak. I see so many people suffering from AFFAIRS. Sometimes the pain lasts 10 or 20 years. It is very hard to forget. Maybe in good cases it lasts 2 years. This is too much suffering. So I thought you needed a stronger response. I did not mean to offend you in anyway. I hope you see my letter as just some way I thought to help. I know my kind of letter is not for everyone but my feeling was that it could help you. I just went with feeling. <P>These days in schools the teachers are afraid to discipline the students. The students might not feel good about it. So everyone is just polite and nice and they put up with any kind of "crap - sorry" from the students. It is not nice to make people feel bad. Everyone has the right to do what they want these days. AFFAIRS are almost promoted by our society. Everyone loves to watch movies about other people having affairs. But when you are betrayed it is no longer as entertaining or as funny. Your case is not as bad because you have a big chance to be saved. I see you are making very positive steps. I hope to read a note in a few days that says "I finally told my husband..." <P>I am not sure if it is a good idea to contact the other man. I like zero contact myself. Any kind of contact can cause problems. If the other man is smart he can smooth talk you into meeting him again. Maybe just one last time, just to talk nothing else etc. etc. Some men and also some women are very manipulative. Some men are very good at luring a female into their trap. You would be surprised that some very outstanding morally upright women have fallen into men's traps. <P>I also think your husband's approach is wrong that you should handle it by yourself. You are a team. You should handle it together. I see you are doing your part but now your husband needs to help. Afterall you are married. If it is a good marriage you need to work together. It is an emotional need that your husband has to meet. If emotional needs are not met then this could lead to an affair. <P>I wish you the best.

I wish you luck like everyone else of course. It sounds like you are determined to save your marriage and to be open and<BR>honest with your husband about all encounters. I think that you should ask yourself why would you would admire a man who wants to cheat on his wife, does not believe in his marriage vows and treats you with disrespect leaving you in a bar by yourself? This does not sound like a mad you would wish to admire. I agree with everyone else that therapy is called for to understand why you are engaging in such self-destructive behavior. You are extremely fortunate that<BR>you have not been totally intimate with this man. <P>When things get tough imagine yourself divorced, living by yourself (the OM will not end his marriage) and finding out that your wonderful husband has begun a new life with a new wife and a new family. Keep this image in your mind because<BR>it will happen if you continue this pattern of behavior. The choice is yours. Good luck

Just stopping by to wish you good luck this weekend, struggling. You'll be fine. So will I. One minute at a time, right? Hang in there. Let us know how it goes.

Hi Struggling27,<P>So how did your do with your husband this weekend?<P>Rodger