I think he's totally convinced he loves the OW. I just continue to be more devastated. Even as he kept hammering this knowledge into my head, he became angrier...why didn't I care enough before this...why did I have to let it come to this before making changes in my attitude and behaviour? And he's so right. I just don't know why I didn't make changes sooner.

<P>He might be convinced he loves ow and maybe he does, I am not sure there is anything you could have done to stop him once it reached that point. The spouse has away of blaming everything on the one being betrayed. My ex even said I never propsed to her proper and that was one of her reasons for the affair. You aren't responsible for him having an affair and you didn't deserve this, he had other choices. take care of yourself and don't blame yourself for what he has chose.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Terrified:<BR><B>I think he's totally convinced he loves the OW. I just continue to be more devastated. Even as he kept hammering this knowledge into my head, he became angrier...why didn't I care enough before this...why did I have to let it come to this before making changes in my attitude and behaviour? And he's so right. I just don't know why I didn't make changes sooner. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Terrified, My H said very similar things to me about being in love with OW and expressing anger at me for not making changes sooner. He moved out and moved in with OW for 4 months. He is now home. Though he still says he loves OW and sometimes misses her terribly he seems more and more willing to make an effort to try to improve our marriage. <P>Right now you need to do a good Plan A and stick with it as long as you can. Go to counseling if you can afford it. The Harleys are great and convenient, too. Make whatever changes you think you need to make now. He will see the changes and chances are that he will come around sooner or later. <P>This is a long slow process and patience is important. Work on yourself, be kind to yourself, don't beat yourself up for past mistakes. I'm sure he's made them too!

Terrified<P>My H also said that he loved her. He told her on the phone in frount of me that he loved her.<P>My H & I did a dance of catching him, no contact, catching him, no contact, him leaving, coming home, no contact, catching him and me kicking him out, him coming home and lastly no contact.<P>He is now home and hasnt had contact for about 2 months. Withdrawl has minimized, and he is now expressing that he is sorry for the A and what he did.<P>While he was in the A, he did tell me that the shape our marriage was in had nothing to do with the A. That our problems were not related to OW.<P>While this is true, that the OW didnt come along until our other problems were fully developed, she didnt help our situation and just added additional difficulties.<P>With the no contact and the minimized withdrawl symptoms he stated that he is now not sure that the OW ever loved him and that maybe she just wanted what he could give her. I recently posted a topic emerging from the fog in the recovery section.<P>I think you should stick with plan A and his reaction of why couldnt you change before to me is an indication that your current plan a is taking effect and making it more difficult for him to say that you are the reason why he is having this A.<P>While he maybe blaming you in his words and actions, I think you are getting to him.

Dear ZZZ4991, Although it may be crazy, I needed to hear from someone else that I'm getting to him. Thanks for taking the time to respond. I think in my heart that I am getting to my H but sometimes I feel that I'm just a desperate woman and have become hopelessly neurotic. <P>

Hang in there Terrified and know that your not alone.

Dear Terrified and ZZZ4491, Could you both please tell me a little bit more about your life? My situation sounds so much like the both of you. I could not find ZZZ4491 post on the in recovery section. I have been down both of those roads. I sure would appreciate talking with you both some more if you have the time. Terrified, My husband told more that he was in loved with the OW many times but he still came home and he is still here. ZZZ4491, I am very interested your life because I need some advice from you. Thank you.

Terrified,<P>I have been through just what you are describing - my H pledged eternal love for the OW his first user name on this very board was "2 soulmates" (although he still loved me he considered her his soulmate also - gag gag (sorry about that LOL)).<P>In his anger (most likely misplaced guilt) your H is trying to shift the focus to you and your place in the affair. He is trying to justify his actions by telling you where you fell short. In most instances an affair is symptom of problems in the marriage but in no way should the FS be blamed for the affair. The WS is 100% responsible for his/her actions. <P>It wasn't until my H (who worked with the OW) ending all non-work contact that he started seeing what the affair for what it really was - a strong attraction that was allowed to grow and develope and not a love that would withstand the test of time. He also started seeing the OW for what she was - not the perfect, wonderful, "fits like a glove" person he had first imagined. And now after contact has ended (for 5 months now) completly he looks back to those days in amazement at the person he had become. He finds it hard to believe that he had told me that he would never stop loving the OW as long as he lived, and finds it hard to believe that I stayed with him while he was doing it.<P>Now is the time for action on your part. Although it hardly seems fair, the FS must "put their nose to the grindstone" so to speak. Start on plan A right away - you can find out more about plan A on the "Just Found Out" Board on NSR's post welcoming "Newbies".<P>I will not lie to you.<BR>Plan A is VERY hard when the WS is at home and still contacting the OP. It tears your heart out every time they leave the house and you KNOW they will be contacting the OP. It can be done, and although my Plan A wasn't perfect, it did bring my H back to reality and back into our (our kids and my) lives - because although a WS may live at home and be "involved" in daily life, they aren't really there - if you know what I mean.<P>Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone, many of us have walked the path that you are walking and heard the words that you are hearing.<P>Hang in there and come here for the support you need to get through the tough times. There will be times when you need to "vent" (let off some steam at something your H has done or said), come here and write instead of yelling at your H. We will help you calm down and get you walking the path to a better marriage again.<P>If you want to get into your H's headspace or find out what he may be thinking at this point go to<BR>Read Only Posts section and do a search on my H "2 Soulmates" or "Being A Better Arik" - this may help you to see that yes they do come out of "the fog" my H did and as most people here will tell you his fog was one of the thickest around(pea soup variety)!!!<P><BR>God Bless<P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers<BR>Nicole

Dear Patient Love and Truthseeker 123,<P>It's so heartwarming to read both of your posts. In light of the fact that I'm "heartwrenched" most of the time. You're so right, PatientLove, when you say that Plan A is not easy. I really screwed up this weekend on two occasions when I swore to myself that I would come here and vent instead. On one occasion, I found out that H had contact the OW once (so he says) and it just tore my heart out. Unfortunately, I told him to leave if he found it that difficult to stay away from any contact with the OW. I continued to tell him that if he was so convinced of a better life with her, I told him to leave me immediately. Yes, mistake #1. Mistake #2 occurred while we were at social event and when he said he couldn't dance with me (his heart is still not there), I just flipped and said we needed to go home right away. He retorted saying that I expect things to change overnight (it's been a month since d-day). Again, I told him to get out since I can't really live with a man who's thinking of someone else. God, it's so hard. I just know I'm going to lose this race that I really don't want to be in anymore...<P>Thanks for listening and your prayers. <P>

I am right there with you, girl. I don't even know who she is yet, but I was once the 'other woman' who he was totally in love with, so I am anxious to find out his intentions.

Dear T,<P>Your H will say and do many confusing things. You may get angry and hurt. Knowing this before more things happen is important. Now you can work on your stragety on how to help yourself and your H. <P>Please make sure you read the basic concepts writeups here, take the emotional needs questionnaire and setup counseling (if not for both of you, then at least you). The Harleys (Jennifer and Steve) can help you and possibley even help you with a plan a letter or even plan b letter as needed. <P>You have a lot of work ahead of you. Keep busy and focused on what you can control. Which is you and your family. Satifying your H's needs can only be partially done and don't expect any gratitude from him right now. <P>My H gave more 'thank-yous' to OW when she gave him a can of powdered drink, then when I paid his bills, bought him a new coat, did his laundry, made his lunch, cleaned his house, cooked his meals, etc. Where was his head???? Obviously not looking in the right direction. Buried deep in the fog and OW loving every minute of it. <P>Now I am going to share with you a couple of ideas on how to really irritate the OW. Depending on what kind of OW you are dealing with here is my take. You must know that the OW in my life is one crazy lady so if yours has more santity it might be easier. Anyway here goes:<P>1. Keep a journal of your thoughts, H's actions, H's <BR> comments, Ow's actions and comments. Date and time it. <P>2. If you can get copies of any correspondence (e-mails) <BR> keep them in a safe place. (optional - not always a <BR> wise thing - e-mails can hurt)<P>3. Read everything you can here about infidelity. <P>4. Learn about a good plan a vs a good plan b.<P>5. When dealing with your H choose carefully what you make<BR> a matter of discussion. Don't make an issue of <BR> everything. Just the important stuff. He might not <BR> be able to handle it well. <P>6. Vent here, in your journal & with your counselor.<P>7. Give H as little as possible about your anger with him<BR> & OW. He chooses to go out with OW. Vent here. He <BR> probably will not listen to your line of reasoning <BR> anyway. If he does ask how you feel, let him know. <BR> When he gets angry, gently remind him he was the one<BR> that asked. <P>8. OW will try to find your faults, pick at them, exaggerate<BR> them and try to make herself look better than you. Be <BR> as nice as humanely possible. Vent here. Some of us<BR> have done a few things that made OWs wonder. That is not<BR> always bad but you need to be careful. <P>9. Try to stimulate your H's gray cells by leaving him <BR> with thought provoking statements or questions. Don't<BR> give him all the answers.<P>10. Let OW do all the work of trying to win him over. You <BR> be as sweet (sincerely sweet) as you can, show him you <BR> love him but must respect yourself. <P>11. Don't enable H. <P>12. If your H is a conflict avoider, choose your issues <BR> wisely. You may want to read up on how to deal with<BR> conflict avoiders. It definitely is a common <BR> characteristic and requires special handling. <P>13. Use every opportunity to make the OW go Hm......<P>Hope this is helpful. Been here a while and still a newbie. But feeling a bit old..... ha ha...<P>Take Care,<BR>L.<BR>