Well, I've been preparing for the worst and working on a property settlement most of the day. Does anyone have any ideas on how to go about determining a monetary value for a military pension? I have a good idea of what the monthly amount will be, but how do you convert that to a lump sum figure?? Do you compare it with what an annuity would pay out?? I realize I could simply have the attorney file paperwork so that I would get half automatically sent to me once he retires, but I think I'd rather have him cash me out now for half it's value.<P>Is there anyone with an accounting or finance background out there? Or someone who's familiar with this??

There's really no way one can determine the monetary value of a military pension since it is paid monthly for the remainder of the retired member's life. Without a crystal ball to predict his death, there's no way to compute the grand total of its worth.<P>Retired military pay to an ex-spouse is a very complicated matter...best left to an attorney experienced with military pay and settlements. You are dealing with federal law. In your settlement be sure to demand that he sign up for the SBP (survivor's benefit plan) which entitles you to continue receiving your share upon his death. Most of the time the court will order this if the military member refuses to do it. If for some reason he neglects to do this you have a window of opportunity to apply yourself (I believe within one year from the divorce). The timeline is strictly enforced, that's why I suggest you consult an attorney.<P>Also, be prepared that half doesn't mean a literal division of the money. If he has any disability claims on his pay, that percentage is taken off the top and not included in the amount that is divided and the premium for SBP is taken out also. So your portion will be less than half.<P>I'd check with the DFAS website or do a search for a board that addresses military divorce issues. Be prepared for much venom on those boards. Military members feel they are being screwed and the ex-wives and second wives can be wicked when discussing this subject.<p>[This message has been edited by queenofsand (edited May 07, 2001).]

Thanks, QoS. I have been trying to educate myself as much as possible on this and have visited several websites. Unfortunately, there are very few attorneys knowlegable about this, and I don't want to have to pay to educate them!! I'm somewhat familiar with the USFSPA (uniformed services former spouses protection act) and SBP. There is also a 20/20/20 rule to qualify for medical benefits, among other privileges. Once H received his "20 year letter", a notice arrived in the mail and the way I understood it, he had 1 year from that date to sign up for SBP. He declined, saying to me "that it wasn't a good deal". That was before I knew about his ongoing affair. I read through much of USFSPA and it did state that the feds condone a transfer of personal assets to offset the claim to a portion of the military retirement. I have given this much thought and I think it would be in both of our best interests to go this route. In his vulnerable state, he would have a guaranteed income that no one could bilk him out of. And, the way he is going, I probably wouldn't collect my share very long. If he should need to enter a VA hospital, or dies, then my payments stop. Another added bonus is that it would be more of a clean break for me.<P>This topic probably doesn't belong on this board. Just thought that there might be someone with a finance backgroung that could at least point me in the right direction.<P>I appreciate your input.

I think the board is available for all aspects of marriage/divorce/inbetweenness. I'm sorry that I started at square one with you...a lot of spouses think the military member has all the control but the law works for us, too.<P>I'm glad to hear that your are familiarizing yourself with all the regs! You are correct when you say most attorneys aren't familiar with them. Last year, when it looked like divorce was eminent I began researching my options, too. I didn't realize federal law supported a buy out. I have deleted all my bookmarks regarding this issue, maybe I will carouse those sites to see what I can find.<P>Now to come up with a figure! It will enable you to walk away from the situation free and clear.<P>Wishing you the best during this difficult time.<P><BR>

Hi QoS,<P>Oh don't be sorry, no offense taken! You are absolutely right; most spouses know nothing of their rights when it comes to the military. In fact I read where sometimes military members will 'use' the medical benefits of the spouse as a bargaining chip in property settlement negotiations. In reality, they have nothing to do with the military member, once the requirements are met. It's a benefit that the government gives to the spouses and has no effect whatsoever on the military member's benefits. It costs them nothing!<P>I wish this was the only hurdle I had! Yesterday I received a copy of his entire chronological listing of points from St.Louis. The copy he had was incomplete, so I found the form necessary (on the internet) to request an updated one, had him sign it, then sent it off. The updated version is not right; it shows he's missing one year's worth of "good points" in the summary. Yet, the detail seems to contradict this!! ARGH!!! So, somehow this needs to be corrected. If I can see that happen, I will have proof of the 20 years of service while we were married. The last document needed to qualify for medical benefits. I don't really need this now, as I have benefits through my employer, but I'm looking at it as an added insurance policy. And as I stated earlier, this will not cost him a dime.<P>Thanks for your input, sounds like you can relate. There aren't many of us out there in this exact type of situation. All I can say, is that I thank God every day for the internet! A wealth of information, just a few clicks away!!!

HI Sidney, would post a message to Chris. He seems to be our resident expert on military matters. <BR>I am sorry you are having to deal with this. (((((hugs)))))<BR>cl

Thanks, CL. Do you think Chris still lurks here? I haven't seen his moniker in awhile. At least I've finally emerged from the denial stage and am firmly planted in acceptance. So now, a lot of my energies are going into an attempt to protect myself financially as much as possible. And as strange as it may sound, I'm also trying to look out for H's interest. <P>He should be arriving back here any day now, after his trip up north to go to a wedding with OW and meet his future inlaws. My stomach is in knots already!!

Sidney,<P>Just posting some encouragement to you. You have a good plan. Keep the faith and keep the course!!!!<P>Big hugs! {{{{{{{{{{{{{{Sidney}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Luv ya, Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

I see there is a book called "Divorce and the Military II " that covers the topics you are asking about. The number for more info is 703-532-1631,

Thanks, Desiree!! Yes, I'm really trying to remain focused on "the path". I just cringe at the thought of what my resident madman is going to throw into the mix next. I just keep reminding myself that I'm in control, and he's not. I'm the sane one, I think?????? <P>Wow! Thanks NA!!!! I'm going to see about getting a copy of that book.

sidney:<P>You can email chrisca@pcisys.net by clicking on his address.<P><p>[This message has been edited by K (edited May 07, 2001).]

Sidney,<P>Your H may have been right the suvivors benefit may have been a bad deal for both of you. I was at one time more up on this, but I believe that Survivors Benefits (SBs) drop the monthly income by roughly half. If you are to divorce you would want the half now, not when he dies. So from your standpoint, the fact that he doesn't have them is better. You could take your half of his retirement, and use part of it to invest. <P>Do you see what I mean. Let's say he has $100. If he got SB he would get $50. If you get half of that you get $25 with the promise of $50 if he dies. However, if he doesn't get SB you get $50 NOW. By the way, the military retirement has historically not done a very good job of keeping up with inflation. Everynow and then Congress will get things sort of caught up, but it is sporatic. <P>Oh! and one last thing. If you did recieve the SB, it is offset by Social Security increases. So you need to check that out very carefully. More than a few surviving widows found that they did not get, SB AND SS. They are intertwined, as is the medical. At 65 you just get Medicare not what was promised to many, years ago.<P>Do your homework very very carefully. By the way, you get a portion of the retirement when he does reach 20 years, even if you divorce before he does.<P>Good Luck,<P>JL

Hi, sidney, I usually post on OW w/OC and was just lurking here tonight. My H is retired Mil. Our youngest child will be 22 when we are 62. We felt that SBP would not be worth it. We went with plan that covers until son is 22 because Social Sec kicks in at age 62 regardless of SBP. We were going to get supplemental insurance. We maxed out the VGLI. check into that option. Also, he can give you all of the retirement if he wants to do so. Have you checked with a JAG officer? They should have some information concerning this. Be careful about mentioning OW, most cases the mil does not prosecute for adultery , but you do not want to open that door. Good luck,<BR>Texasgirl

Hey, thanks guys! You are great!! Don't know how I would have survived so far without this board.<P>K- thanks so much for Chris's address.<P>JL- I appreciate the info. It does make me feel a little better about being without the SBP. We (or I should say I as I was the one who sent off the check) did invest in the VGLI, but, whew was it expensive! From what you are saying, it sounds to me like I'm on the right track in having him cash me out of his 1/2 of the pension. That way, I've got money upfront to invest (which you pointed out) & it can't be taken away if he dies or enters a VA hospital. Like the pension money can.<P>Hi TexasGirl!- what part of Texas? I'm north of Dallas. I'm pretty sure that it would be in both of our best interests if I left his pension intact and have him cash me out with our other assets. That way he has a guaranteed income that no OW can bilk him out of. Even though he has put me through hell, I still worry about his future. Someone has to, since he certainly doesn't or can't!!!! Thanks very much for the info.

Hope I helped. We are south of Dallas, and FT Worth. In 30 min I be in downtown either place. <P>See ya later<BR>TG