I can't keep on with Plan A, every time I see my husband I start crying again - the pain is unbearable and I've felt suicidal at times. I have to face the fact that although I love him deeply and want the marriage to continue - he does not feel the same. The OW has gone back to her husband, but my husband still wants to end our marriage, he says that he has been unhappy with our relationship for years. He wants to be on his own and live his life for himself, however selfish that may seem. <P>I have been making excuses for his behaviour, as he is burned out at work, depressed and in a mid-life crisis, but even though these things are true, I can't stay in denial for ever. Reading through 'Surviving an Affair', the WS usually feels great guilt about what they have done to their families and returns to them. Not my husband - he says that he definately wants out of the marriage and tells me that there is no chance whatsoever that he will ever come back to me.<P>I know the statistics, and that there is still a good chance that he will eventually regret his decision, but I just can't put my life on hold for the months or years that would take. The constant pain is just too much for me to handle. I'm going to officially separate from him - maybe even get a divorce - move back to England and try and rebuild my life again, try and find someone else that will love me and be a real father to my children. Call it a Plan B if you like, I call it survival. Why do I hate myself so much for loving such a b*****d?

Paintbox,<P>I am sorry for your pain. If you need to go to PLan B do so but don't make any rash decesions about moving especailly out of the country yet. Give everything some time.

It's late and I don't have any great suggestions, or much time.<P>I can't remember, have you considered anti-dep medications? It's not uncommon for people to need them in a tough situation like this.<P>Also, consider a phone counseling session or two with one of the Harleys (see the "Counsel" link above), before giving up. It's not free, but it's got to be cheaper than moving to England .<P>I'm sorry you're feeling so down.<P>Steve

I know I shouldn't make rash decisions - and my heart is begging me to try and be strong and hang on a little longer, but my husband seems so sure of his decision that I now think I would be a fool if I didn't believe him. I called him tonight and pleaded with him to try and give me some indication of where I stood - I needed him to tell me straight out whether there could be a glimmer of hope, or not. He is still sending me mixed signals - one minute telling me that he never wants to be with me ever again, and the next telling me that he needs time to be alone. I still don't know where I stand for sure - reading MB and the books gives me hope, but is it false hope? According to my husband, he has been unhappy for years and years - while I was so in love with him and content, right up until D-day. He never told me he was unhappy, he never gave me a chance to try and improve things. He was making love to me, with passion, right up until a couple of days before D-Day, now I feel as though I've been raped because he now tells me that it was all a lie. I feel so used and my pain turns to anger and I keep on hurling love-busters at him at every opportunity, I can't help myself. Tonight, on the 'phone, I meant to tell him that I was sorry for crying earlier today, when I saw his new apartment for the first time - but it ended up me getting angry and telling him that 'We'd better just get it over and done with then', then bitterly arguing with him over how we were going to split the finances. To top it all, I then told him that he was naive to think that this OW ever loved him - I'd seen where she lived and it was obvious that she was only after him for his money. I would reckon that my 'account' in his love bank is now very much in the red.<P>I can't help getting angry - I've devoted 20 years of my life to supporting this man in everything he ever wanted to do - this past 15 months all that work has come to fruition and we moved to America, bought a beautiful big house and reaped the rewards of all our hard work. We were penniless when we married and now at last we have money and a wonderful lifestyle. Now he decides to dump me and the children, leaving us to go back to living as we were 17 years ago, in a tiny house, struggling with no money. I don't deserve this - our children don't deserve this, I can't believe how selfish he is being to completely destroy our lives like this.

paintbox, I understand your pain and I feel it myself. My H came back home less than 2 months ago after living with OW for 4 months, but he has not really recommitted to our marriage, our family, or even our joint business (in fact, sometimes I think he only came back because I had him removed from the Bd of Directors and from the corporate acct. while he was with OW, spending money out of corp. acct. to furnish their rented house, and never showing up at work). <P>I believe my H is also having a MLC and is depressed, but you're right, that doesn't give him a license to be selfish and inconsiderate. <P>The pain is so overwhelming. I can only recommend doing whatever it takes to help yourself feel back in control of your life, at least to some extent. The suggestions of anti-depressants and counseling are both good. Even venting here as you are is better than directing it at your H because, as you said, your anger only pushes him farther away. <P>It is very hard to plan A, but I'm continuing to do it. It's hard to continue to hold onto hope when all rational thinking says your situation looks hopeless. But moving back to England is not going to suddenly make everything better either, as you probably know. I know when I'm feeling really hurt, even right now while H is gone on a ten minute errand that's taken 3.5 hours so far, missed dinner, and won't answer his cell phone or his pager, I feel like doing something rash, just packing a bag and leaving or something. But I know it will only make me feel like I'm stooping to his level. We need to be the strong ones for our families, since they've chosen to be irresponsible and selfish.

Paintbox, ask yourself the following questions:<P>1) Do I want to give up on a 20 year history just yet?<P>2) In the absence of the affair, would I want to be still married to him?<P>If the answer to 1) is "No" and the answer to 2) is "Yes", then you owe it to yourself to hang in there and not make any rash decisions.<P>Plan A and Plan B are not about staying in limbo forever. They are about setting a fixed amount of time to work on the marriage and work on yourself; to fix the lovebusters and repair the things YOU'VE done wrong in the marriage. This is the Plan A phase. If you do not see results in Plan A, then you move to Plan B, and force the wayward spouse to have all his needs filled by the OW (or in your case, to be alone, with no contact with you, and see what life will be like without you.<P>Read this and understand it:<P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>What are Plan A and Plan B?</A> <P>Of course he does not feel the same. He is still in withdrawal from the OW, and probably has hopes that she will change her mind. What you need to keep in mind, should you decide to stick with this, is that WHAT HE FEELS TODAY MAY NOT BE WHAT HE FEELS TOMORROW. And that what he says today, he may smack himself in the head tomorrow for saying.<P>That said, everyone has a differing level of tolerance for this. Some people have remained in Plan A for a year or more, others just can't take it.<P>Since your H's affair is no longer going on, you're dealing with the withdrawal. Your H is obviously going through some sort of midlife crisis, and like most men, he can't face all the maelstrom of emotions he's feeling. So he puts it in language he can understand -- an affair -- and also in blaming you for his problems. It's not uncommon.<P>You have not done a "true" plan A. Calling him and demanding answers and demanding a decision is a lovebuster in his current frame of mind. Right now he is confused and angry and he doesn't know at what, so he directs it to you.<P>As for him saying he's been unhappy for years: Do a search on this forum and read Lora's story. Her H did the same thing, and now she has a thread about "what happens after the fog" in which he wonders what the heck he was thinking.<P>THINGS CAN CHANGE.<P>In my very humble opinion, Plan A is very important because it essentially "covers your *ss" in terms of the things H can latch onto to beat you with. Right now you're behaving like a hysterical shrew, in his mind. No wonder you're not getting anywhere. I'm not trying to be harsh with you; this stuff is NOT EASY, and it flies in the face of everything else you've ever read.<P>Perhaps the way for you to go is a separated Plan A. This means that you no longer live together, so that you don't have the triggers that get you upset, but you are still trying to elmininate lovebusters and make being with you a safe and loving place. It's a lot easier to do that sometimes when it's not under your feet all the time.<P>Don't put your life on hold. Get some counseling to work on your own issues. Do things you've wanted to do. The only thing you can't do at this phase is date. If you see him, get together for "dates" and make them pleasant. Set a timeframe, say eight months to a year. And if you don't see changes, THEN you can talk about officially separating with an eye towards divorce. I'll bet that won't be necessary.

Dazed - thankyou, you made me smile today - 'hysterical shrew' is a very apt description of me at the moment <P>I feel a little better this morning - I've had 5 really bad days in a row and also my youngest child has been having 2 to 3 nightmares every night since my husband left, so I'm really tired from being woken up and trying to be supportive when I need so much supporting myself.<BR> <BR>My relative who was staying with me went back to England yesterday morning, so it was a bad day all round - suddenly realising that I was all alone again. I didn't want to mention it again, but I'm having a lot of emotional problems with the abortion too, and not getting much help with this - all our relatives supported the decision, but when I try to explain how bad I feel, they just keep coming up with the same old 'You know it was the right choice' and 'You've got nothing to feel guilty about' - which doesn't really help. <P>Anyway, I had a damn good sobbing session last night, took a couple of sleeping pills and slept. I look more like a hysterical puffy-eyed frog this morning than a shrew!! I'm trying so hard to stay off the anti-depressants etc., but it's hard. I did go to the doctor and get some, but I only took one and it made me feel so ill all day that I wouldn't take any more. I'm going to see if there's any herbal tablets that might help instead.<P>I did e-mail my husband last night, saying that I was sorry about the 'phone call and explaining that the lack of sleep, worry over the children and the emotional aftermath of the abortion were affecting me badly at the moment. I told him that I was in no fit state to make any decisions at the moment and probably wouldn't be for quite some time. He rang me this morning, but I let the answering machine pick it up. I want to try Plan A again now - I was managing to do it before he moved out OK, and we were sharing hugs and talking together like friends - but the day he moved out I felt myself getting more and more bitter and angry with him. He promised me that he'd support me through the abortion, then left just a week later and now doesn't seem to want to discuss it anymore. Did he really think I'd get over this in just a week? <P>I just wish I knew for sure how this was going to end! <BR>

Just a quickie - my husband rang again and this time I answered, he was sympathetic to my feelings about the abortion and actually listened to what I had to say about it for once, instead of shutting himself off. I needed him to know all the details in order to explain the horrendous flashbacks I'm having, but he's always been sensitive to anything to do with medical issues and just tells me he doesn't want to know. Well, this morning he did talk about them and I'm pleased about that. He still says that he doesn't regret our marriage and he cares about me a great deal, but he doesn't want to live a lie. He told me that sometimes he thinks it would have been easier on me if he had lied about the way he felt, instead of confronting me with brutal honesty. He seems so sure about his own feelings that it's very hard to hang on to the hope that this is all a big mistake! Anyway, we agreed that we both had to try harder for the sake of the children - so hopefully that means I'll get the opportunity to try yet again with Plan A. I am going to book myself into the doctors to talk to her about another type of anti-depressant, although I feel that by doing this all my principles are going down the drain! My husband suggested counselling for the post-abortion stress syndrome, although I've found a wonderful website with ideas to help you get the grief out first, and a recovery plan for when you are ready.<BR>Thanks, paint.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dazed and Confused:<BR><B><BR>Of course he does not feel the same. He is still in withdrawal from the OW, and probably has hopes that she will change her mind. What you need to keep in mind, should you decide to stick with this, is that WHAT HE FEELS TODAY MAY NOT BE WHAT HE FEELS TOMORROW. And that what he says today, he may smack himself in the head tomorrow for saying.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><B>Dazed and Confused</B>,<BR>Excellent post!<P><B>Paint</B>,<BR>I'm going to support the part I quoted above with something I've quoted to several people today from SAA. Having gotten it out to look the story up I might as well use it again .<P>I'm going to do a paste from my post in mon's thread <B>starting here:</B><P>When we see the pain in our relationship, and feel the devastation of betrayal, it is easy to think all is lost. Knowing that painful and selfish behavior by the WS is common early in recovery even among those who eventually do recover helps us know that our situation is not so unusual as to be unsalvageable.<P>Do you have SAA? In one of the stories in it Sue was a WS and Jon was her H. She carried out a blatant affair including an episode where Jon found her in bed with Greg, the lover. She still claimed they were just friends! She moved out, moved back, moved out again to be with Greg. Then she got a court order forcing Jon to move out and pay her $3,000/month child support while she lived in their home!<P>Eventually, Greg found someone else. Having lost Greg, Sue was then willing to reconcile with Jon and try to work on the marriage. I'm going to quote a paragraph from SAA (bottom of page 83 in my copy):<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B><BR>After all that Sue had put Jon through, you'd think she would have returned to him humbled and deeply remorseful. Sometimes a wayward spouse does ask for forgiveness for the incredible thoughtlessness of his or her affair, but Sue didn't. In fact the way she talked to Jon about getting back together sounded as if he was the one who had had the affair. She made it seem as if he was lucky to have another chance to win her back.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>I think you'll agree that she was well out of touch with reality here! However, they had a successful recovery.<P>As I recall, Sue did eventually express gratitude to Jon, but it wasn't that way at first.<P><B>End of paste from other thread</B><P>SAA has comments from Sue and Jon after their recovery. I'm going to quote a few exerpts from what Sue said (p164):<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B><BR>As Jon kept depositing love units, slowly but surely the days I loved Jon increased in number, and the days I didn't love him decreased. I still have a hard time believing that love units could make such a difference in how I feel.<P>...I am so grateful to Jon for waiting for me until I came to my senses...<P>...I will always be grateful to him for his patience and commitment to me.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>Much of the key to Dr. Harley's insight is his understanding that the emotion of love isn't some inexplicable thing that once gone is gone for good. Instead it is a predictable response that occurs when certain conditions are met.<P>The good news is that you can both be in love with one another again. The bad news is that it takes time and work.<BR>D#%n, I always did hate having to wait for deferred gratification .<P>I'm glad you're feeling better. <P>Take care,<P>Steve

Thankyou once again Steve and Dazed, for coming to my rescue with such sound and down-to-earth advice! You are, of course, quite right - he rang me again this evening to ask me to clarify what was happening, I told him 'nothing - I was going to stay here with the kids until I had sorted myself out' He was relieved to hear that and thought it was the best choice, he said that we both needed time to think. I chatted to him for a while - had to laugh when he said he'd had 'granola' for dinner - and managed to deposit a couple of love units by a) knowing the latest soccer result for his favourite team back in England, and b) offering him a punnet of strawberries as I'd just bought a 2-for-1 offer, and they're his favourite fruit. <P>I spoke to one of my closest friends back in England today and she was really helpful too - she's been through divorce, so knows what it feels like. She suggested that I also try tricks such as baking cakes or cooking delicious smelling meals when I knew he was coming round. As she says - one of the ways to a mans heart is his stomach, especially when he's living on granola! <P>Thanks again for throwing me the lifebelt and giving me something to hang on to,<P>Best wishes, Paint