I'll start by saying I know at this further stage in this situation, I need to reread Harly books that I've bought, but I loaned them to my H and he still has them. (He does seem to have gotten at least one thing from Harley's info...he agrees that he was (is?) suffering from an addiction. We've been spending more time together (including resuming sexual intimacies, much to my surprise that's been very good) and I'm beginning to have some hope that we'll stay married. But, I need some help in knowing how best to deal with my feelings and my tongue. He has asked me several times what I'm thinking (when he could avoid asking) and I've told him whatever is troubling me about his A. He's given various responses to what I've said or asked. Sometimes it's helpful, sometimes it's just painful, and sometimes he won't give a response. He is still working with the OW M-F. There is every reason to believe that will come to an end in about 3 weeks. He say they are "through." He obviously still has her up on a pedistal (sp?), thinks she's a wonderful human being, etc. He tries to reason with me when I show anger toward her. I found myself demanding (bad idea right?) that he do everything in his power to avoid her at work during their remaining time together. I even suggested who at his place of work could call me and tell me that he wasn't eating lunch with OW and other coworkers. Am I doing this all wrong? This isn't plan A or plan B...I do know that much. Should I be trying harder to be nothing but sweetness and light if I can???? Should I put my foot down and have no unnecessary contact with him until he can come back with a different perspective about OW??? Am I just doing a good job of proving I can be a bi#ch, compared to OW's poor, poor put upon self??? Guidance please!

OMG, been there too! I found out where OW lived - a dirty old dump of an apartment - then told my WH that it was obvious she was only after his money and he'd better watch his pockets. Whoops - Big mistake! <P>I've also accused her of 'brainwashing him into doing stupid things' - as I'm sure it was her that talked him into buying a pack of tarot cards and a book on 'finding your soulmate', something he has always, always been very cynical about and laughed at as being 'for nutty hippies'!<P>But, to answer your question - Yes, it's by far the preferred scenario to separate him comletely from the OW, BUT this is Real Life and most times it doesn't happen that way (unfortunately). Sometimes the WS can't get over their addiction enough to separate completely, sometimes they want to separate but other commitments such as work, where you live etc., get in the way. Your relationship with your husband seems to be improving, and he has made attempts to be honest with you, even though it's painful sometimes. Maybe it's just to early on to hear those things at the moment and you should tell him that although you will probably NEED to know the details at some point in the future, you have decided not to discuss them now as they are too painful for you. Continue working on your relationship and see how it goes - give yourself time and then start asking questions when you are ready for the answers.<BR>Best of luck,<BR>Paint <P>

Paintbox,<BR>Did/Does your H yet see anything that's from the OW as "nutty"? Is he having no contact yet? Should we expect them to ever see the OW realistically?<P>Until she choose to become involved in my personal life via having an A with my husband, I had no problem with who this W was. Just an average, nice enough, respectable person. But, I do get a littttttle angry when H says something about how unfairly she's being treated in being forced to transfer where she's working to somewhere she doesn't want to work, etc. My response (LB again?): "She made her choices, now she will have to live with the consequences." H : "She's a good (named her position)." Me: Well, they need a good (her position) where she's being moved to, if that's all that's important to her." H's response at this point makes it clear that he's disgusted with my attitude, my lack of empathy. I asked, "Has (her name) ever voiced any concern, empathy for how I might feel after all that's happened to me in this." He said no. I said, "And yet, I'm the bad person, and she's a wonderful person being treated badly."<P>What would have been the right way for me to respond? <P>Are there those of you who have done/said the "right" things to this kind of attitude by the WS and are on the other side now looking back?<P>G.

How do I know it's an LB?<P>As soon as the words leave my mouth, I know. I bet you do, too.<P>WAT

I haven't been on this path very long but I agree with WAT, you know it's an LB as soon as the words leave your mouth. I did it tonight...I was doing so well and all of a sudden, I just broke down in tears hating H for the pain. My advice to you is to not to let the OP invade your life, your thoughts or your conversation for the time being. Plan A without the letting the OP ruin it or interfere with it.

Hey you guys, <P>You are suppose to call me the LB Fairie to do all LBing for you. I can either say or scream what you want or I can think of creative ways to let them know. I feeling very creative & mean today.<P>sing more than willing to get into her LB Fairied clothes, hop on her broom, supersonci of course & fly across the Pacific to come do your dirty work for you

It is not a favorable environment for recovery while there is continued contact.<P>Has your husband agreed to follow the basic concepts? Are you truly in recovery? Just because you are having sex and things are more pleasant doesn't mean you are in recovery, in my opinion... (but we all have our own definition, I suppose.)<P>You are able to make deposits in the lovebank, that is a good thing! Your husband defines what the lovebusters are... Ask him! Nothing wrong with asking him if you are annoying him, etc.... <P>But be mindful, that while contact is going on, no matter how little - your husband isn't probably dealing with a full deck.... So you need to be the strong one in this relationship.<P>Good luck!<BR>TnT

Terrified,<BR>I just jumped in on your conversation on another thread. You gave me good advice here for me and you it seems..."Don't let OW invade..." <P>TNT,<BR>No, I don't think we're truly in recovery. The sexual relations just seemed like a big step to me because for at least 3 months, I didn't feel like I'd ever want to go there again - with him anyway! Duh, I can see how asking him could be helpful, I'll try that. I'll try to keep moving in the right direction but slooooowly, while I wait to see if contact really does end.<P>Sing,<BR>Fuel up the ol' broom, I could use you!!! Hey! If the LB Fairie does it, then I don't have to feel guilty, Right!<BR>Thanks.<P>WAT<BR>Sometimes I'm very sure too what's an LB, AND I"M TOO UPSET TO CARE! OK, so I'm not going to get the Harley's Medal of Honor.<BR>Sometimes I just don't know what will be an LB or how to prevent it. For example, this morning H told me about something that he'd done. It hurt me because to me it was another proof of how wrapped up he still is in things related to OW. I wouldn't look him in the eye because I didn't want him to see I was upset. He forced me to, then I couldn't keep from crying. He said he didn't mean to make me "leak" he was just trying to keep me from thinking he was hiding something from me in case I heard about what he'd done from someone else. I said thank you and returned his kiss, but I had to go. And left. <P>Now, was this or was this not an LB!?!?!<BR>G.

GAJ - not necessarily. Remember, it's not you or I who determine if an act is an LB - it's the partner. But let's face it, most are pretty obvious - especially if you raise your voice or show anger. However, even when we speak the truth calmly, the partner may not want to hear it and it alienates them from us. These are more subtle, and maybe less damaging than the violent ones, but are the hardest to predict.<P>WAT

I certainly don't feel like I should be giving any advice right now but wanted you to know I feel the same way. I mean well and TRY not to LB then I get so upset or have a bad day and then I just don't care. I start feeling like he deserves it so tough ****! Then he gets down and starts saying this will never work out, he has messed up too big, blah, blah, blah. Then, I see the result of my LB. I LB all weekend and am hoping maybe I got most of it out of my system. I really let him have it!