My H and I separated a few months after dday, May 2000. It was my decision and I really feel like my sanity depended on it. Nearly ten years of marriage at that point and he had rarely acted like a married man. I cried, I plan-A'd, I exploded, I was indifferent. Nothing ever changed. <P>He had an EA with a woman from work which he says never went PA, but the PA's afterwards were a direct result of the trauma that the EA inflicted on our marriage.<P>For a long time I felt he was emotionally unavailable to me and I felt like just "another lay". He would ignore me all day and then wonder why I wasn't a sexual dynamo after the kids were asleep. In anger, I told him a few times to just "go out and get laid because that's all I am to you...". Well, he did and he (at that time) considered those angry outbursts justification for his one-night stands. We talked about those outbursts often, before dday, how they were the result of my pain, my lonliness and my anger that he would put his friendhip with this woman above our marriage, above my feelings. <P>Full disclosure came this April, when he told me everything, things I never would have found out because they were mind-bogelingly anonymous. All I could think of was what a creep and a complete stranger he was. The things he's said about these women (who I know used him as much as he used them) make me wonder if he ever had any respect for women at all. <P>He started accepting responsibility last summer. He never wanted the separation, has always claimed that he's wanted only me all that time, that he felt awful after each encounter and just wanted to crawl under a rock. He's gone so far as to say that with each episode he was trying to kill himself a little bit more. <P>He accepts blame for starting all of the problems in our marriage and has acknowledged how hard I tried to "keep things together" the whole time. Says he was foolish, immature, self-indulgent, couldn't see how he was making me feel alone and used, etc., etc. But he says he sees all of this now, that he is remorseful and he wants to work on this, for us and for our children. <P>I have told him what I need him to do to give me the confidence to move forward. That I thought certain friendhips (especially with single women who he confides his problems in) were inappropriate; that I hoped he would face his drinking problem; that I needed to know that I was a consideration when he made decisions. <P>Well, one evening I called him on his cell phone and he was out at the corner pub, said he was all alone and just having a beer. He told me the next day that he was actually with a young woman who lives in his building and that they were talking about their problems. Her mom had just died, he was telling her about our marriage and its' problems... Bad news as far as I was concerned. He also admitted that they had been out a "few times" before. Of course, like with the EA years ago, he says this is all innocent and he will not do it again, that I'm the one with "trust issues". Hmmm....<P>I see a lot of words and no actions. Though he promised just recently not to "socialize" in this way, he says he "forgot" about that promise. <P>He continues to do things that hurt me, though he says that they shouldn't hurt me, since he does not do it intentionally. I stand by the belief that you should think about your partners feelings when doing anything out of your "routine", even if it's just going out for a cup of coffee with your co-workers. He says that he agrees with this but his actions are just the opposite. <P>I have no way to discuss this with him. If I tell him I'm upset and why, he says, " you're right and I have changed and things are getting better... ", or he gets frustrated and says that "everything" is a trigger for me. I don't see ANY changes, I just hear the words. Believe me, I've LOOKED for the positive. <P>I do still even after this nightmare, love him and hope to have an actual marriage with him someday. I'm intelligent enough to see the mistakes we both made and which and kept our marriage miserable. But I'm starting to feel more and more like I'm being manipulated, like he is still lying to me.<P>It's very difficult to maintain just "civil" contact with him. We have many days where we are just getting along and being friendly, making plans for and with the kids, talking about things other than "us". He always initiates deeper intimacy, telling me he wants to come home, he loves me and only me, asking me to spend the night, etc. And he doesn't understand why I'm so torn about everything...<P>Arrrghhhhh! Help!<P>Snow<P><p>[This message has been edited by Snowwhite (edited May 14, 2001).]

Dear Snow, I'm on such a downer myself today that I can't even begin to answer your question - especially as 'intimacy' with my own WH is something I desperately long for at the moment! I can't even give him a friendly hug at the moment without feeling him tense up and back off - he flinches away if I even accidentally brush his arm <BR>Hopefully someone will have some down-to-earth advice for you soon,<BR>Best wishes, Paint

Snow White, I really feel for you. My husband was one of those guys that used to go around confiding in every woman but me too, and I believe you mentioned your H is in a band before too, right? So is mine. I wish I could say I had the answer. My husband had to come to the realization of what he had done on his own, but I would highly recommend seeing a good marriage counselor together if you have any idea you still want to be married and he does too. A good counselor will tell him that these "friendships" are wrong and why. Also, you guys maybe should go to a marriage workshop together for a weekend. Cheaper than a divorce, and may help bring you back together. Until he realy changes his outlook on these friendships and sees what he has done was wrong I would be wary too though. Intentional or not his actions are thoughtless and destructive to your marriage, and asking for trouble.<BR>

SnowWhite:<P>It's no fun to not be able to trust your husband, and from what you describe, yours certainly doesn't seem to be very trustworthy. Yet.<P>I am really glad for you that he seems to want to regain his marriage with you. I think that's a great start. But it is only a start!<P>One of the first things I think your husband needs to work on is being <B>completely</B> honest with you. That means being honest even when it's hard. If he is anything like my husband, he may not even realize that any little fib is making you trust him even less.<P>The next thing I would bring up with your husband is the Policy of Joint Agreement. Make sure that he realizes and truly buys into the concept of not doing <B>anything</B> that you don't 100% endorse.<P>On the other hand, before even mentioning either to your husband, I think you should look carefully at your heart and decide what it is that you want. What are the minimum steps that your husband would have to take before you would feel able to be his wife again. Write down your thoughts; it helps you organize your thinking and it keeps you honest to yourself later. Keep that list close to you. You must be prepared to stand up for yourself if the minimum standards are not met.<P>Only you can decide what is best for you. I wish the best for both of you.<P>--HBC

Thanks for the responses! I know the post was looong but I hope you understand the whirlpool of thoughts and "what ifs" and "whys"... they make me nutty some days!<P>Scared, have you ever asked your H to leave music? My H doesn't actually make his living that way but they gig a lot and I hate, hate, HATE every show... there's a lot of emotional baggage attached to this band. The biggest being ME having to drop out of school so that it could happen. Now they're realizing some level of success and my degree is as far away as ever. <P>Yes, he knows how I feel about this. Still, I don't know if asking him to quit would be about "revenge" or because it takes SO much time away from the kids and me. <P>I really like the marriage workshop idea, too. Not just right now though. Like HBS says, this is just the "start". I'm testing the waters carefully before I dive in. I will, however do some homework and make up that list for myself. I very, very strongly feel that I could be setting myself up for the doormat of the year award if I take him in any time soon. <P>From everything I've read and what you ladies have all said, I know that I can't be the one to educate him on the impropriety of certain friendships. Yes, his recent actions have been incredibly thoughtless and destructive. All I can do about that, really, is hope that he will someday agree and change his behavior.<P>Snow

HI Snowhite,<BR>Are you in plan a or plan b? Or something else? <BR>Have you read the info on this website abt plan a and b? I would recommend one or the other.<BR>I can see why you feel manipulated...he seems to get the best of all worlds this way! You are still hanging on, though you say you are not totally committed? <BR>I have to agree with HBC to look at what you really want. <BR>(((((hugs))))) cl

Yes cl, I've read and read and re-read the Plan A and B info. I've posted the question, "how do you Plan A a serial cheater?" and got little response -- must be as perplexing a question to others as it is to me. Although one of the responses I got made a lot of sense -- that you can't really Plan A a SC because the problem is usually with the person rather than the relationship and is the result of a sexual addiction. I'm just not sure if that's the case with my H. Also, the "no contact" rule doesn't make any sense in my H's case.<P>I'm in a limbo state between the two, I guess. I do the best Plan A that I can. I found this site long after I had asked for a separation, though I think I would have done so regardless. As you and HBC agree, I need to figure out what I really want and what my terms are. Of course, I thought I had figured that out when he sprang that last "lie of omission" on me -- the gal at the pub. You see why I'm floundering?<P>We're doing the EN's form together tomorrow evening. It's yet another start. <P>Thanks for the hugs. Need them badly!

HI Snowwhite,<BR>It is good to read you are going thru the emotional needs.<BR>Yes, it is hard to plan a serial cheater. Gotta go to work, so will talk at you tonight, but wanted to remind you that you cannot control his choices!<BR>Look at yourself, feel what you need and want in the marriage and get some boundaries in place. You are doing great Snowhite! <BR>(((((hugs))))) cl