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Dear Wesse,<P>Thank for the criticism. This tends to be THE ultimate question for all of the BS' like me. many ws' never are able to tell the real reasons for the betrayal. To generalize from such a closed set of data would be foolish. To collect the data is not foolish however. This may indeed help some WS' see that they are not alone in thier emotional context. To that end, this exercise is well worth the effort. If I am able to collect the data that begins to help me understand the BS as a person, then that is all the more good. This is by no means a conviction of actions. This is just for the data. You may draw you own conclusions. I will see it my way anyway. That is the lesson that Infidelity teaches us. Perception can lead to an altered reality.<P>God Bless you all!!<BR>Invictus

Well, I liked htis post. We can all learn something here. See the trend??? the WS was feeling neglected, unloved and lonely. I have already figured out that my lack of attention to my exH is probably the thing that made him prime for his affair.<P>So, I guess the thing to keep uppermost in your mind is this: Are you meeting your partner's need for attention, affection, admiration and conversation in ways that are important to your partner - so that your partner won't feel unloved, unimportant nor neglected???<P>This is the lesson I am working so hard at trying to learn from my own failed marriage.<P>Good post.<P>Desiree<BR><P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

An overwhelming need for physical intimacy, consistent flattering attention and the resigned realization that such needs were not going to be met within the marital relationship.

10 words or less...hmmm ok here goes.<P>Selfishness.

Someone cared enough to spend TIME with me. I was very lonely.

Maybe you were a bit defensive--I agree with Wesse<P>The reasons for betrayal in a marriage are sometimes so complicated, and sometimes there are many many factors, as there are many individuals and personalities, that it is so hard to define in a few words. Also, any person involved in an affair or in the after-shock of just leaving one are likely not to really care what the reasons are. Call it temporary insanity or the fog, guilt or shame, whatever--the situation is too raw to analyze. It takes a long, long time, sometimes years, to actually understand why one did as one did. So I doubt that this data would actually enlighten an affairee or save them from their own actions, if this is the purpose.<P>In my case, I started to come out of the "fog" when my spouse got money from his mother with the orders to divorce me. I suffered an agony that I would not wish on anyone, from that starting point, and this intensified over many years after it came clear to me what I had done.<P>It really came clear to me after my second husband, who I adored, worshipped, gave me a dose of my own medicine. He taught me the meaning of selfishness through years of temper tantrums, pouting, secrecy, and projection of guilt. Then he began cheating. When I found out, it was if my whole world collapsed.<P>And now I know what I did to many people, all those years ago. And NOW I know what flaws in my character, what personality traits and other factors lead me to my insecretion.<P>Looking back at my former post on this thread, it seems so concise to the point of being flippant. There was SO much more involved in what I did (I am not explaining this to defend myself, I am revealing in order to give you some possible factors for betrayal for your data.)<P>I was a very young woman, immature. I married at 19, against my parent's wishes.<BR>My home life sucked--I wanted to get away from my parents In fact, I ran away to Germany get married and didn't tell them for a year.<BR>I had a horrible self-image. I had been a teen-aged geek, awkward and shy, Josie Grossy, and all of the sudden, one day, men were looking at me, complimenting me (unfortunately by that time, I was married)<BR>I had married the first person that had paid any attention to me because I desperately wanted to be loved and thought that I would not ever have that chance again.<BR>I married the first person that I had sex with--I had grown up a Christian, determined to save myself for marriage, and yet I had "failed"--I guess out of my shame and obligation, I married him to make it right.<BR>Then I had a baby--because I wanted to validate a marriage that I never really wanted in the first place, not for any other reason<P>Then, after making all of these mistakes, I made things worse:<P>I started thinking "Is this it? Is this my life?"<BR>I was SO lonely <BR>I wanted someone to talk to on my level of intellect. I hungered for it. I was not interested in professional wrestling and Scooby Doo.<BR>I loved having men tell me that I was pretty<BR>All the sudden, I was making up for all the fun I had missed in highschool. I hung out with single friends, cruising the strip, and doing what my single friends were doing--I had to have this.<BR>I was angry with my husband. He was complacent with a life of poverty. He wanted nothing more out of life than his next meal. I wanted to travel, I wanted to learn, I had so much energy, I wanted to see the world.<BR>I talked to my husband about all my thoughts and feelings. He stared at me like a dead fish, with his mouth open. Every "conversation" we had was like this.<BR>I felt overwhelming desperation at the idea of "escaping."<P>To make matters worse, my parents hated him and let me know about it.<BR>In fact, all of my friends did too. One day my boss told me, as my husband walked out of the little store that I worked in after trying to get a free coke (because I worked there) "You need to dump that idiot and find someone new."<P>Then one day, a nice looking old cowboy came into my store, told me that he was on his way to Nevada for the weekend for a rodeo. I told him, jokingly, to take me with him sometime and he said "I would love to."<P>Thus began my life of independance and fun--more fun than working two jobs and caring for two babies while my husband was hanging out with his sleezy friends. While I kept my aquaintences in the "just good friends" range, I knew darn well that I was playing with fire. I was addicted. I didn't care.<P>Shortly after that, I joined the army to make ends meet because there was nothing in my little town to do, and no sooner than I was at my first duty station, making arrangments for my family to arrive, I met my "soulmate" He was an infantryman 6 years younger than myself. My husband expressed reservations at moving and leaving his mother and friends. I said "That's cool. Stay there, then. By the way, I am seeing someone new." (See, I never lied to him, well, not really.)<P>And then he divorced me. (My soulmate ditched me a month later.) And then it started to come clear to us both the behaviors that lead to the demise of our marriage, but too late.<P>Basically, it was immaturity and a lack of self-esteem that lead to infidelity for me. Of course, that never makes it right.<P>Life is a progressive experience, however, and the things that I have put myself through and endured are what makes me a better person.<P>Now I just have to realize that this is what my husband is experiencing as well, and forgive him<P>[<p>[This message has been edited by Bernzini (edited May 16, 2001).]

I thought he didn't love me because he never said it, didn't show it in ways I could understand and was basically carrying on a romance with the T.V. until it came time for me to satisfy him sexually. Given enough time, you can cut down even a mighty oak with a butter knife and that's exactly what happened to my love for him. It died of neglect, complacency and lack of contriteness. There was a time when I thought anyone who had an affair was the scum of the earth but years ago I figured out there was almost always something major wrong with the primary relationship that set up the ground work for an affair to happen. None of which excuses anything but it does present a few reasons.

Something weighing on my mind. I've tried to imagine what it might be like to be a spouse in a long-term PA. I know that I could never do it. I'm a confessor. If I do something wrong, I have to "tell," the sooner the better. I've heard it said that anyone can fall prey to a very involved, ongoing EMR. When I look at myself, I don't ever see that happening. I'd make myself sick from the guilt. <P>belld

Perception can lead to an altered reality. My Father taught me a few good lesson's. The number one thing he warned me against was rationalization. "Never lie to yourself." he would say.<P>Do we see what we WANT to see? Can fantasy become our reality? By having faith in self satisfaction, or satisfying ourselves through another person, does that leave us open for the trials when the fog lifts? If we rely on an unrealistic fantasy of marriage that doesn't cut it, do we then look for another fantasy? Yes we do. I almost did many times and I am the BS. I stopped myself before the EA started. I knew myself and I knew what WOULD happen. Even now that temptation is stronger than ever.<P>Have we (BS & WS) all tried to replace our poor marriages with a fantasy life? My fantasy was that my wife was a better person than I saw. She saw me as a worse person than I am. (Her words not mine.) We each lived in our own fantasy.

Invictus,<P>You can't dismiss the pain with words like "fantasy" and "reality" ...<P>Every one of these answers, except one who said only "selfishness" included pain. Even the person who wrote that one word must have felt pain of some kind. <P>There is no excuse for an affair. EVER. <P>Only one person can take responsibility for an affair - the person in it. If you are the betrayed, it is the one who was married to YOU. If you are the wayward spouse, it **is** you. So, the broken vow crashed - at your feet, no matter which side you are on. <P>I've been on both sides, and it hurts.<P>...and so, we are back to pain.<P>I'd like to change my answers above to reflect my thoughts here - <P>Why did my ex-H cheat over and over again? Pain.<P>Why did I have an affair? Pain.<P>Why didn't our marriage heal? Pain.<P>Why have I felt guilty and angry and embarrassed and depressed and lonely? Pain.<P>No matter how it comes, pain is pain is pain. Infidelity is like a cancer - a flesh eating (soul, spirit) cancer. It can kill you.<P>Or you can find a good doctor, begin to do the work, take the meds, and heal.<P>I finally decided to get some help. Now I am healing. Only now can I see the sunlight, the glimmer of hope, the moments of peace. I refuse to live in pain any longer.<P>I chose healing. I am no longer defined by my poor choice to cheat. I made a terrible mistake, and I must live with that, and face God with it. But I am now able to go forward.<P>I chose healing.<P>------------------<BR>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino<P><I>Formerly 'new_beginning'</I><p>[This message has been edited by Nyneve (edited May 17, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ava:<BR><B>Like Raskal said; I felt unloved, uncared for, unconsidered. Mine was an exit affair. Although I ended up not exiting....not yet anyway.<P>Also, like Madelyn said, it was the way the OM made me feel about myself; exciting, interesting, sexy.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>In reality, it was all about <B>ME</B> because of how <B>I</B> felt. The truth was that my husband DID love me, DID care about me and DID consider me. He felt the way I wanted him to feel about me, I just didn't FEEL like he did. <P>Ava<P>

We had lots of problems due to what I perceived as my H's irresponsibility. I was very angry for a long time. And then I just didn't care anymore. My A was a weak and cowardly attempt to cope. It is the biggest failure of my life.

took care of everything/everyone...no one to take care of me-or so I thought

Invictus,<P>Quite the analytical approach you have...analysis sprinkled with philosophy... Very deep!<P>Why did I get in the position I'm in?<P>Most of the same reasons as the others who have posted.<P>My husband had multiple affairs. He stayed, but proceeded to be disrespectful and hurtful. I looked for care and admiration elsewhere.<P>So here I am now...<P>Thanks for listening. I hope this helps. --Kat<P>

The overwhelming theme I hear from this string is "I."<P>Are we all so PROUD that we can "do" and not "care."<P>I offer to you all the concept of lifestyle called vision. This is a common concept in our culture. Think of it as direction or a path. A chess master can think 13 moves ahead and therefore defeat a lesser player. His vision of the game is much different than mine. He has more time at the game. He has more practice.<P>Our vision of life is also composed of practice and innate personal gifts. That is why I did not cheat and my Wife did. She didn't see the long term. Eventually she didn't want to see at all. I have been blessed with the gift of understanding, of vision. I see the consequence's of my actions and the actions of others. My Wife knew she was hurting me and did so intentionally. She never saw the depth of the rift she has opened between us. I did not truly see it either yet I saw enough to back away. <P>I now see the depth of the pain i will cause if I do not forgive and forget. Yes forget. I can tell you that I have intended to never forget this. This has been a mistake, until now. I have not been able to shrug off the clamor of resentment, because I embraced the knowledge of the sin. It was to me a fine treasure. It is actually filth. I will give my gift of forgiveness without hope of reciprocity. My hope lies in the Lord.<P>I see that this will lead me and my Wife to the richest of riches and the fullness of life.

He made me feel special, appreciated, sexy, and yes, loved.<p>[This message has been edited by Trying in Ga (edited May 31, 2001).]

Hey everyone,<P>My take on this....<BR>No one is responsible for the behavior or happiness of anyone else. The WS is responsible for his/her own actions.<BR>Many times in our lives we feel unloved and unappreciated at home at work....everywhere. Don't put the responsibility of lowering self esteem on others. Self esteem is not determined by what others think of us. It is determined by what "we think" others think of us.