This is what God gave me when I wondered a few weeks ago WHY I even bothered to try. <P>There's a guy at work -- call him Joe -- who is one of those guys that just about everyone likes. He's polite, helpful, remembers everyones name and notices new haircuts (on boys and girls!). <P>Joe and I at one point were spending a lot of time together in one of the Hotel's bars on slow days (this is where we WORK, remember!). We would stand just around the corner in the kitchen, waiting for customers, drinking Virgin Marys and just talking. <P>Joe is always talking about his wife. Mention a restauraunt you just tried for the first time and liked, and Joe immediately says, " Hmmm... I should take my WIFE there! I should call her right now!" Mention a hiking trail you've not explored, an outdoor festival coming up, you name it, Joe will mention his wife and wonder if he should take her there, also. And then he usually follows through! <P>Joe has also chimed in on occasion about his ideas on infidelity. " Absolutely not acceptable. No excuse, no justification. It's the most selfish, heartless thing a person can do to someone they're supposed to love. "<P>Well, needless to say I am ENVIOUS and I want a husband like Joe, too! Why did I get stuck with someone who instead of taking ME out decides that he needs to take his latest EA out to "their" bar after work? Icch!<P>So a few weeks ago Joe puts two and two together and realizes that some of the "infidelity" conversations that he's overheard are about me and my H. (I have one very close friend at work and we update whenever we run into each other and have the time). <P>And as you have probably guessed, Joe confesses his OWN infidelity. Not in THIS, enviable marriage, but in marriage #1. He puts a hand on my shoulder, says " Snow, it is ABSOLUTELY not about YOU. My infidelity was all about ME and how screwed up I was, how selfish I was. Don't EVER think you did anything to deserve this!"<P>Joe, after much soul-searching and agony, wanted to work it out with his XW. She couldn't do it. Joe got on with his life, changed his ways, met a nice girl, married her and has a nice life now, priorities in order and HONESTY at all times. <P>So, I've done ten years time now. My own H is (was?) screwed up for a loooong time. Is he seeing the light? Is he really WORKING on himself, his priorities? If I don't stick around I will never know if I've missed out on the "Joe" in my own marriage. After all the work I've done, I deserve a Joe, too! Too bad XW isn't getting the "good Joe" that she wanted for so long.<P>Gods answer: You bother to try because it can work!<P>Snow

Thanks Snow, great post! Has much meaning that I can apply to so many things in my life right now. I really needed to hear that today.<P>Ava

Hi Snow:<P>Sorry I was interrupted in the middle of completing this post...left it hanging. Anyway, this post addresses the same general issues and I don't like to repeat myself twice in one day. Thanks.<P><BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/008855.html" TARGET=_blank>BS: Ever Wonder if you Stayed for Right Reason? </A><P> <BR> <BR>Faye<BR> <P> <P> <p>[This message has been edited by buffy (edited May 17, 2001).]

Found the thread, Faye. <P>It is DEVESTATING what the person who vowed to love us till the end is capable of doing.<P>Every situation is differrent, every marriage is different. Same colors, maybe, but different shades. <P>I hope that my H is able turn around someday and act more like a "Joe". I don't know. He says he believes he can and that he WANTS to. That he's wanted to all along but was too "screwed up and selfish" (his words).<P>I do still love him. "In Love"? Who knows, who cares. That comes and goes in even the best marriages, I think. But love him enough to give him time to try and prove it to me? Definitely. I'm SCARED TO DEATH, moving slowly but not shutting the door.<P>Snow

Hi, Snow,<P>I know of several "Joes" who have never cheated on their Ws. They treat them like royalty. I remember going over to see some married friends - she was pregnant and her H was finishing up a wardrobe for the baby that he had made BY HAND. He's always buying her little pieces of jewelry or clothes - nothing really expensive - and giving her flowers. They have been married almost 10 years, and they are still bonkers for each other. Now that the baby has come along, it's even BETTER between them, if such a thing is possible. I also know a couple whose lives were changed by his infidelity. Today, they work as a team and do nothing without each other's mutual consent. Whenever I used to call to invite them to dinner, the one who answered the phone would say, "I'll have to check with _______ first and then get back with you." If the other spouse didn't want to go, end of story. They didn't come for dinner.<P>So I too have met those wonderful men who talk about their wonderful Ws and who are constantly getting ideas on how to please their Ws from magazines, friends, co-workers, etc. Knowing my situation w/ my H, one male friend even asked me how he could best help his new girlfriend, who had been through a verbally abusive relationship in the past. (!!!)<P>I know that there are a lot of "Joes" out there. Early in the marriage, I was the female "Joe" equivalent - I was always planning something for H, be it a special gift, a special dinner, an evening out, etc. My enthusiasm for that dimmed very quickly once I started seeing more and more of his temper. In one ofher letters to me, XOW said that she didn't think that my H would ever treat a woman right until someone treated him the same way he treated us. I cannot agree. I can never see my H turning into a "Joe" and being that considerate and empathetic and filled with the desire to make his W happy. I wish that I could say otherwise.<P>belld

...and I look at it yet a different way...<P>Joe wasn't always that way...<P>...until he didn't want to make that mistake again...<P>I am Joe, only female - Joe-ette, or something like that. <P>So, to the lovely <B>Snow White</B>, thank you for this story - it has touched me too.<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino

Yes, Sheryl, that's how I see it too. <P>Joe turned it all around you. <P>Here's to hope!<P>Off to work now. Cheers. <P>Snow

Hi Snow,<P>Yep, we would all like that type of 'caring jo' in our lives. Be it our mates now or later. Some take extra work to get there or we need to move on. Wish that decision was easy to see or do. Life is not always black and white with the answers. <P>Thanks for the real life experience. A's are just fantasy's real life experiences can be life saving. <P>Mahalo,<BR>L.<BR>

Snow,<BR> My H is a "Joe". I'm the very lucky first wife who didn't give up on him when he was so far out there. Recently he told me " W this whole affair thing killed me,emotionally and physically (it was making him sick and he was so stressed he was losing his hair!).It hurt me real bad. I couldn't have been more lost and confused. I would never put you through this ever again. The nights I would drive past our house (when we were separated after d-day) I experienced the worst feelings I have ever felt, very painful and sad" He had tears in his eyes just remembering.<P>Even better than these words my dear H spoke to me are the behaviors that have become a part of his daily existence. You just can't fake the kind of a change he's made. He is without a doubt a different man. Many of his co-workers have commented on the change in him. I am so glad I stayed and worked on the marriage with him and had the eyes to see how tortured he was by what he was doing. If someone had told me that such incredible pain would have brought such a wonderful fulfilling marriage I would have thought they were nuts.<P>Recovery is possible. A better marriage is achievable. WS must not only be sorry but repent so as to not repeat the mistake. If my H can make such a drastic change so can others. Keep praying, God works miracles everyday!

This is what draws me here. The hope that I get for the H I will have if I am patient.Thanks all for this inspiring post.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MAEZY:<BR><B>This is what draws me here. The hope that I get for the H I will have if I am patient.Thanks all for this inspiring post.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>And I wait for the fog to lift on my wife. It's been 15 monts since d day and 1 week since the DV was final.<P>SO I am prepared emotionally to give it another 6 months or so. Lord willing.<P>