Phil,<P>I've read the four "contributions" you've made to these forums today, all espousing the wonders and joys of infidelity. I'm just wondering, why have you chosen a place where people are trying to heal to tell them that they are idiots for feeling hurt to begin with?<P>Are you trying to help us see the errors of our ways in feeling hurt by our wayward spouses' actions, or are you just trying to get a rise out of us?<P>Just curious what your objectives are.<P>Thanks.<P>AGG

I asked the same question on the other thread. I'm curious too.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Or are you just trying to get a rise out of us?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>D'oh, he wins... <P>I'd suggest that you just ignore him, and hope that he goes away.<BR>

<A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/008957.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/008957.html</A> <P><BR>Phil needs to go read my answer to his reply to terrifieds post... <P>Phil... find a board where your viewpoints coincide with your culture... you are way out of your league here and the input will make no impact since it is based on some serious differences with this culture...<BR>Phil _have a nice day!!!!!<P>

Okay, I have just read ONE of his posts and my god!!!! This man has some problems. He needs to stay the hell off of MB's and go onto another one is his country where it is alright to have affairs! Nothing against anyone else that may be from another country, k. But this persons thinking is totally screwey and affairs ARE NOT OKAY!!! When you make your vow "to forsake all others till death do you part" doesn't that mean that you don't go and SCREW other people outside the marriage because you want to. HELL NO! Sorry people, this man just has really hit a sore spot. And this is the only post I am going to make to this man. I know he probably does want to just get a "rise" out of us. Well I am just letting him know how it is here in AMERICA!

Phil - please transport back to the mother ship immediately. You and Dennis Rodman have been detected.<P>Men in Black<p>[This message has been edited by worthatry (edited May 17, 2001).]

Some one prasing infidelity??? where???? <BR>I am in an fighting mood tonight.<BR>i love ripping those people apart <BR><P>------------------<BR>Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.

Well, Phil may be having fun telling us how great adultry is. But we all know how he'd react if his wife did it. So I'm sure his is the usual one sided story. I can tell you Phil that if you are cheating on your wife, she feels as devistated as anyone at this site.... even if it is supposedly OK in your country. I know this because I grew up in places like Panama, Italy and Etheopia. I saw what women go through when their husbands cheat, even in other cultures. In many cultures women are executed for doing the same things the men can get away with.<P>We are not prudes. We are trying to live our lives by a moral standard. So bye bye Phil.<BR>E

Ok, so I just read Phil's post to terrified. OMG the guy grew up in an asylum where the crazy people ruled. This behavior is not the norm in Europe. Believe me. There are always people who will justify their lives and actions by saying that everyone does it. <P>And there are those Europeans who like to think of themselves as more sophisticated and worldly then Americans. They are simply arrogant, ignorant, fools who need someone to look down on. I have met many of them in my life. <P>E

I read Phil's posts, and he says he would encourage his W to have an affair!<P>Obviously this guy stumbled upon the wrong site. His values are obviously very different from those of us who us MB as a support group in our dealings with affairs.<P>He is correct in his observation about the acceptance of infidelity in other cultures. Mexico and France in particular not only condone but encourage affairs. Since he himself is a cheater, he assumes that infidelity is somehow a desirable trait. Yet I'm surprised that someone so educated and worldly could be so ignorant of the fact that infidelity is socially unacceptable in America and many other countries. In fact his disdain for the people on this site indicates that, while he may be educated and worldly, he is the worst kind of snob.<P>You've all no doubt heard the saying "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." Phil stumbled into the "Rome" of Marriage Builders, and can't seem to figure out why we want to throw him to the lions!

Phil,<P>You are one kooky character. I don't care which end of this planet you hail from you are weird. If that is how you choose to live your life then so be it. Just go where there are those who share your philosophy. <P>I know that many people in your corner of the world do not share your views, so you are not necessarily speaking for your entire culture. Forced acceptance of hurtful practices in no way justifies it to the rest of the world. <P>If you approve this kind of lifestyle, what other forms of abuse do you also encourage? This really makes me wonder about the rest of your character. Hm......<P>L.<P>[This message has been edited by Orchid (edited May 18, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Orchid (edited May 18, 2001).]

I also totally disagree with Phil.<P>On the other hand American society seems to condone it because:<P>1) many women's magazine's talk about having many partner's is great. It makes you a great lover (one I looked at yesterday)<P>2) Last month there was one that took a survey about sex at the office and good places to for it.<P>3) Then affair movies are always very popular with everyone (as long as it doesn't happen to them).<P>4) There are many internet sites that encourage people to find on the side partners to get more excitement out of your life.<P>5) Our society is against it yet 60% of marriages have this happen. So where do all these affair people come from. Obviously the people who do it condone it at the time they do it. So they aren't against it then.<P>Unless it happens to you, it is great I guess. Phil has obviously not gone through it or does not love his wife enough to care. To me a wife is someone very special that I would not want to share with some other guy. Why would I want another guy to have sex with my wife possibly getting her pregnant, possibly getting disease, possible getting him attracted enough so that the two end up married instead. The logic to promote affairs is perverted.

As a former WS, I can honestly attest to the fact that there was no fun in having an affair. It was all an illusion. If you like to live in a world where the only thing that matters is personal pleasure and sexual exploration, well, go jump in Phil's little world. <P>I am not a prude, but I went against the very principles I believed in all my life. I believe in "Mr. Right." I believe in one man, one woman forever. Infidelity is more than pleasing yourself sexually, it's about deception, broken vows, broken hearts and integrity lost. Where is the dignity in sleeping around with a hundred women, where is the respect for men and women as people, as friends who do not deserved to be deceived. Sure, keep your affairs in the darkness, and that is where you will remain.<P>I not only slept with another man, but I deceived my H. And, that has been the hardest thing to live with. I hurt my friend, my companion, my lover, and I hurt myself on top of it.<P>People believe different things, and that's fine, but infidelity is one of the leading causes of divorce. So, if you come on a marriage-building site to espouse the benefits of having an affair, well, I guess from me, after this post, you will just be ignored. I never knew there could be such heartless people in the world - claiming to be tolerant, but yet not even trying to understand those people who believe infidelity to be morally unacceptable. For the record, I am a Christian, and it does go against everything I believe in, and I don't think - even as a former WS - that there is any way you can convince me that having an affair, under any circumstance is appropriate.<P>So, Phil, I think you should enjoy the life you've chosen to live, and respect the rest of us here who have chosen to think otherwise.<P>

Well, I thought I might throw in a few words here.<P>I don't mean to step on anyones toes, but having lived in France and traveled extensively one of things you will notice especially in the European approach to infidelity is that it is most "accepted?" in countries which are predominately Catholic. Reason, divorce is not as accepted, so affairs seem to be. I am not implying that religion per se' has anything to do with it, but people just don't divorce in France, so they seem to have affairs.<P>Now, it seems to me here is the catch, if many people have affairs, and divorce isn't an option, then the only possible way to survive is to convince ones self that everyone has them, and that they don't mean anything. This is of course nonsense, for while the French may be enlightened they also have a law about a "crime of passion". Wouldn't need that if "everyone" accepted affairs as harmless now would we?<P>So the US has more divorce, but less tolerance for affairs. Since I come from the "a promise is a promise" school of upbringing, I believe that honesty and holding to ones vows is the way to go. I also believe in forgiveness, but there is nothing to forgive, if you don't think it is wrong is there?<P>I believe Phil, old boy, is a self aggrandizing person, who uses exceptions to try and prove a rule. It doesn't really fly. I believe and in fact know that humans are pretty much the same everywhere you go. They have the same needs, hurts, failings, and weaknesses. His arguement is: accept the failings and weaknesses and never aspire to be better. Sorry no can do. Improving and trying to learn from mistakes is where I come from.<P>Good Luck Phil on your pleasant??? but empty life.<P>JL

I think that Phil's afterlife isn't going to be very pleasant. It might be a bit... warm...

LOL...K!<P>Bye Bye Phil!!!

My husband's (WS) reaction to Phil was, we have to forgive him, he's French. lol<P>Find it interesting that the only thing Phil has to say about his wife is a put down. Bet she is really thrilled that she married this character. I'd love to show her his write up and discuss it with her.<P>There are many reasons why women like his grandmother put up with her husband's mistress and they have little to do with love. What was the poor, dear woman going to do? Leave this man and get a job? I don't think so. Not in Greece in those days. She has to be admired for arriving at a point where she could handle it with grace and dignaty. Stories like this break my heart.<P>