OK, PB (psyco babble) struck again. Last night I commented to H about how odd that PB has not left any messages since last Thursday. They used to talk 'everyday' before that. <P>Hm.... H said, she was probably waiting. That did not make sense. Waiting for what?!?!?! Ok, well this afternoon I check the voicemail and lo' and behold a message. This Thursday. OW Fetish about Thursdays? Hm.... Ok, I am reading too much into this. Anyway get this: This nut wants to take credit for sending H home. Tells H she does not want him back. Then says to give W (me) until August. Then says, when they get 'married'.... Then says she will wait for him. <P>Is this confusing or what?!?!?! Ok, now I am shaking or fuming? Not sure which.<P>Hey, calm cool and collective. Remember she says I am business like. Ok. Let's get down to business. <P>H just called. Says that OW did call him this morning. OW asked how he was and tried to get him to go back. H says he was not aware of the message OW left on answering machine but that OW was making stuff up. OW used old info from plans that were laid to rest and is trying to pull my string. Hm..... Ok, string pulled and cut. Get another string OW. Not shaking as much now. Can H be believed? Well, I hope so. <P>Is this going to happen every week? For how long? Need to get this OW something else to do. Hm...... Any ideas?!?!?!<P>Thanks for letting me vent. <P>L.<BR>

Nope, she doesn't have a "Thursday fetish." Rather, it is most likely the day she contacted him while the A was going on was Thursday (if there was daily contact, my bet is that he initiated the other contact). It seems quite natural to me, a WS, to initiate the contact only on one day. Your H's comment that perhaps she was waiting only confirms it.<P>As for getting OW to do something else, my suggestion is to continue to Plan A your H. Unless and until she believes there is no further interest on his part, you can count on her maintaining some contact. It's not a no contact letter that OW needs, or a curt phone call, (both of which she believes he is only doing because you are pressuring him) but a belief that he is no longer interested that will put a stop to her madness. With sufficient Plan A, your H will not only say that he is no longer interested, he will convey it too. My best to you.<p>[This message has been edited by NewVoyager (edited May 17, 2001).]

The OW in my H's A left me always feling very very confused.<P>Truthfully-I don't think even they know what they want.<P>Hold that chin up HIGH and don't let her get to you-easier said than done I know-but you know you can do it!<P>Good luck!<P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."

I agree with both other posts.

Orchid,<P>The OW is using every tool she can come up with to try to get your husband back. And she is using all of them at once - not a particularly intelligent approach. Generally the kind of thing she said in that single message is the kind of thing that might be said in a series of conversations involving a more sane (but equally desperate) individual. <P>"This nut wants to take credit for sending H home."<P>Well, "nut" is the operative word here!<P>"Tells H she does not want him back." Manipulating - thinks that if she tells him this he will "want her" because he can't have her.<P>"Then says to give W (me) until August." Of course - she is trying to instill doubt in him that he can possibly ever be happy with you again. Obviously she has never read a book by Dr. Harley!<P>"Then says, when they get 'married'...." This sounds as if it is either A) truly delusional; or B) thrown in there just in case you were listening in order to jab you with the knife.<P>"Then says she will wait for him." Of course she will... he is the best thing that ever happened to her - until she finds someone else's husband to sink her claws into...<P>O, don't give this crazy any more power in your life. Laugh in the face of danger - really, I'm serious. Laugh! That has got to be the most ridiculous message ever left ... What a LOSER!<P>And you - you are a WINNER - no matter what may happen to your marriage, you have won.<P>sb

Orchid,<BR>When OW calls H why would he speak to her long enough for her to try to get him to come back?

Because he is a weak person and a conflict avoider. From what I have been told, he has avoided several of her calls. <P>Am I making excuses for him? No, that is how he is. He needs to stop talking to her. He realizes that she is not going to stop trying contact him. He is also now seeing the psyco side of her personality. Even though I saw it a long time ago, he is only acknowledging it now. See she is a 'sweet talker', most of her messages are very calm and collected, but if you listen to what she is talking about, then you see the real nut. <P>Remember tho', it is a blow to his ego to know that he fell for someone with that type of characteristic. So to admit that she is a bit touched would mean he was also. Hm.....<P>We are in the 3rd week of his return. I do not consider this recovery yet. In addtion to that I am now going through other personal crisis of my own and having to deal with all of it together. So we'll see how much more of this will go on. In the meantime, thanks for letting me vent here. Please help me keep my sanity through all this, I know I need it. <P>L.

Orchid,<P>Word on that. My H is a big conflict-avoider too. I never could quite understand why he didn't just tell XOW, "Don't call me anymore." It's what I would have done. Heck, it's what I *have* done! Does he want to feel like a "nice guy" for not being mean to her? Does he just not want to get into it with her? Does he think that if he continues talking to her, she will eventually give up and go away? Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that. The more your H talks to the XOW, the more she will see that as a big entre back into your marriage. I personally feel that in order to get the OP out of the marriage, there *must* be a no contact letter in the manner in which Harley advises and strict follow-up. Which means take no phones calls, do not call, do not acknowledge in public. Pretend the OP does not exist. Otherwise, they will *never* get the message.<P>Believe it or not, this is also the kindest thing to do for the OP. By rejecting the OP unequivocably, they are able to recover and not hold out hope that the MP will change his/her mind.<P>belld

Hi all,<P>Thanks everyone. I needed that boost today. <P>Belldandy,<P>You are right on with your description of H. Nice guy, doesn't want to hurt OW feelings. Hmmph.... what about mine? Oh, she just wants to see how I am doing. <P>Can't they see how much some women like to manipulate men? I guess because I'm not like that, neither is anyone else? ooooohh.... YUCK!!!!<P>In the clutches of a black widow, nice guys get eaten!!! <P>Ok, back breathing again. <P>So far today there have been 3 clicking calls and 1 yesterday. Hm.... she must be a bit anxious wondering what I am up to?????!?!?!? Let's see if her H would like to know what his still yet married W has been doing?!?!?!<P>Bye.<BR>L.

Orchid:<P>What about caller ID? Than you'd know where the hangups come from.<BR>What about changing your phone number so she can't call? Or turning the harassing calls into the phone company? <BR>I know here 3 calls in 24 hrs are considered harassment.<BR> <BR>Just suggestions so you wouldn't have to deal with PB.<P>Take care. <P>

HI Orchid,<BR>that owPB is such definitely a winner! Gads, what extremes they go to. <BR>Maybe try to explain the rule of no contact to H again? Hanging up is not conflict. It is completely the opposite of conflict! <BR>(((((hugs))))) cl

Hi HW,<P>This is a voicemail box service purchased by H during his A. The company has been asked to shut off that service and I have been given access to it to check for H. The deal is that I check and let him know. <P>I can't wait for it to be shut off, but since he paid for EOM service, that is how long it will be on. Currently this is the only way for OW to leave messages for H. Yes, he has his cell phones but I get to check those also. <P>I have asked H to change all his cell phones and pagers. All are work related and he is reluctant. His family's happiness however is at stake and this will be our discussion tonight. <P>Caller id is a service we have on all phones. OW is too smart to call the house. She is parnoid I will get her phone #. <P>Her phone number & address? Who does she think she is the President's mistress? Can't really say what I have at the moment since it is possible she may lurk here. But it is safe to say that I am satisfied with what info I have. Hm....<P>L.<P><BR>

Another chapter in this crazy 'A' novel:<P>This one should be entitled: I did a bad bad thing!!!<P>A couple of days ago, I was unhooking H's cell phones that were being recharged. H knows I will periodically check his phones for calls for OW. His work cell is a bit tricky (escpecially without my glasses on - ha ha). So the first number I see is "OWs". Trying to go to the next number, I accidently hit autodail. Hm..... now trying to turn off the phone and the button just won't work. No really, I couldn't turn it off. It's one of those kind of buttons you have to hold down for a while. Oh well, my heart is pounding and the phone is picked up and she says "hello?"<P>At that point I do manage to hang up the phone and that was the end of that. Now to go and confess to H. Believe it or not he doesn't get mad. <P>Then I find out that indeed OW did call to see how he was??? Right and to tell him he can still come back. Oh, yea now she is also mad because she is going through a divorce and H is not. Hmmmph..... Miserable wench. <P>OW takes advatage of the morning error and calls H later in the morning on his way to work. He tells her it was a mistake that her number was dialed. This has happened before. Short conversation. <P>Next scene: H goes out last night to get some paperwork from work that he needs to take on another assignment. H stops to get gas (important item). H comes home gets 2 calls on his work cell and 1 page all from OW. Hmmmmm I am curious why the urgency? H does not answer them seems to be annoyed that she is calling. I leave it at that. <P>Then OW leaves a voicemail: She knows H was at the gas station and says the next time their conversation gets cut off, he should call back or they should have some sort of arrangement. Then she tells him sorry she could not see him last Monday for lunch if he call a bit earlier she could have made it and it was nice to see him last Thursday. Also, could he work 1/2 on this Thursday so they could keep their planned rendevouz (sp)? <P>What?!??!!? H listened to this one and now he had some explaining to do. This OW is a winner. Evidently these are her plans. H has not seen her since he moved back and I remind him that these contacts are not helping our relationship recover. He understands. He says he has told OW to stop calling but she does not. He will tell her again and he is getting annoyed that she keeps leaving these messages to get to me. <P>H also says that she keeps trying to plan for a meeting every Thursday so they can keep their thing going. I thought she didn't want to tangle with a married man again?!?!? Well somebody has a lesson to learn. Hmmmm.... <P>So OW DOES have a Thursday fetish! So now to plan H!!<P>Stay tuned for the next episode of Pysco Babble strikes again!!!<P>L.<P>

Is call blocker available for cell phones? You can block any known phone number and can block all private numbers as well. This would stop the availability if he isnt willing to have the number changed.

Well, my first thought would be to have the cell phone number changed so that the OW cannot contact him. However, having been down that road with my own H, I found that asking him to do anything to protect our privacy and the marriage (even if it involved a simple change of a cell phone number) was absolutely not in his plans. He blew a gasket when I asked. So that's that.<P>I know that some cell phone services have call blocker, but not all of them. I don't really see this as a fail-safe method, though, because she (OW) could always call from work or a phone booth or some other place. <P>I'm sorry you're going through this, Orchid, I really am. Your H is NOT getting his message through, and my suspicion is that he is being far too nice to the OW and therefore, leaving a big open door for her to waltz right into his life at her whim.<P>belld

{{{Orchid}}} so sorry that she is getting in the way.<BR>POJA... policy of joing agreement... go over the concept with spouse and let him know that you are not comfortable with her being able to still call and ask him for suggestions to help end it completely...<BR>then brainstorm on different ways to get the job done... make it a joint effort and come up with strategies to help him be stronger...<BR>when he tells you that she has contacted him... let him know you are supportive and that you understand it is difficult for him but by his weakness he is causing more pain all the way around...<BR>hang in there and if all else fails get a restraining order... nothing like the law to keep the psychos in check <BR>C1

Hi zzz, bd and c1,<P>Thanks for your responses and suggestions. Yes, I have asked for all those numbers to be changed. H is reluctant but it just may be necessary since I am not feeling very good about all this 'stuff'. In her own words, OW says I am 'watchin H like a hawk'. In my own words, OW is being a mosquito (a blood sucking.......). <P>Enough of my own animalistic description of OW. I will look into the blocking the phone # option. OW is very versatile. You'd think she's done this before because of all the avenues of hiding things and being secretive and stuff. Makes you just want to blow her bubble. Hm....<P>I have since revised my plan and decided it may be necessary to go to plan H OW (?!?!?). <P>This OW definitely has too much time on her hands, if she could just do some constructive work that would actually benefit society than create havoc, I'd say she could actually turn into a contributing member of her community. <P>ooooh I'm thinking again, that's dangerous. <P>Thanks for your help and support. <P>Back to work,<BR>L.<BR>

My H's XOW turned out to be a canny one too, Orchid. She <BR>"played dumb" about not seeing him, wanting to talk to me about him, etc., etc., and at the last minute, she chickened out on a lunch meeting. Figures. That's when I finally realized that she was pulling the wool over my eyes in a very major way. Sometimes I wonder who is more sneaky - the MP or the OP? Or maybe when you get both plotting together, you have two brains both operating on a similar consensus: deceive the spouse, make him/her seem crazy, destroy her self-esteem, do anything - ANYTHING - to perpetuate the EMR and not be found out, so Help Me G*d.<P>It is very twisted. I've not done a lot of nice things to my H when we were estranged, but I can honestly say that I never plotted against him with another person. I just don't have the criminal mentality, I guess. <P>belldandy

Hi Bd,<P>I will never resort to criminal activity nor do anything immoral. I do not plan to bring myself to sink to their low level of activity. However, I can not stand by and just let them (OW especially) go without no recourse. <P>They like to play and not pay. This OW thinks everything is her right and no one else matters. This is ok if she lives alone on a desert island (maybe), but not when it involves me. I do believe in justice and know that eventually she will get what she deserves. <P>What I have done is minimal. Really, I have not been a threat to her, I just make her wonder. Hm..... Shut down her e-mail address and sent a bag of laundry to her home. <BR>Not very scary but it did have an affect. <P>I told H that I believe this woman needs pyscological help. He says he does not want to tell her that. I agree. Maybe her H should. Maybe he already did. Maybe he doesn't care. I am not sure. Thinking about that one. <P>Being sane for the moment. <P>L.<BR>

Orchid,<P>Sorry - I didn't mean to imply that a criminal mentality = committing a crime. But I do think that the WS and the OP *do* have to have a criminal mentality when they engage in an EMR, the same way bank robbers plot to rob a bank, or kidnappers plan to steal a child. It takes a lot of energy and effort and surreptitiousness, and NO ONE can find out about it. That's what I meant by criminal mentality.<P>I am always aghast when I think of the XOW's involvement in our marriage. She seems to have the b*lls of an elephant when it comes to swanning right in and taking control of H's problems. Most women would have told him to go to h*ll and rot (I certainly would have). What gave her that right? What makes her think that she had any business in our lives? Isn't there a time when you just blow the whistle and call a permanent time-out?<P>Isn't that what most sane people do?<P>I am convinced that she would have become an absolute menace had my H been involved with her any longer - and I mean a menace for *life.* She was so enthralled with him, she couldn't see straight; he got her to do all kinds of idiotic, bizarro, immoral things to cover and rescue his butt that even *I* wouldn't have done. Now, SHE was a classic co-dependent, if I've ever seen one!<P>Just venting today - feels good ...<P>belld