I wonder how long this former OW/Now wife has been married?? Sounds like she is still in the "honeymoon stage."<P>I wonder how many people have been hurt for her & her new H's self-serving rotten decisions!<P>This former OW/Now wife comes off as Ms.Perfect. If she thinks that wives who have husbands who cheat, make the decision to cheat because we weren't good spouses, I wonder why she couldn't be Ms.Perfect for her first H? She contradicts herself!<P>This is such bull!

Am I missing something here?<P>After reading that letter from the OW, all <B>I</B> could think of was how sad it was that the wife was not meeting the husband's emotional needs and she didn't even know it.<P>I really recognized my marriage in her letter. I know that admiration, shared hobbies, and time are three big emotional needs for my husband. And they are three I was not adequately providing.<P>I guess I wish I had kept this in mind before my husband's affair. Not that I think it would have prevented all of them; my husband has an addiction to attention that he has to deal with. But I think it might have mitigated it somewhat if I had been as attentive as I could have been...<P>Just my $0.02...<P>HBC

wow quite a little bitc* session going here.<P>i get how angry and hurt everyone seems to be by this, but how about a little perspective? maybe we are a little too close to this to see the good in the letter.<P>i get the feeling that the BS who've posted on this dont believe that the principle of meeting the sposes EN's works. why are you here? i read the letter as almost a community service notice "warning flood zone!" <P>what i read was a woman who clearly recognizes how she failed to meet the needs of her spouse in her first marriage, has made the mistake of meeting them for another womans husband, and took it upon herself to give a warning to other spouses about how important it is to seek to meet those needs.<P>she didnt give any information about wheter she was proud or sad, happy or remorseful, and abby did the (while unusual for her) right thing she forwarded infromation valuable to married folk about how easily things can spiral out of control. <P>why does it make you so mad, dont you believe that what the harley's have put forward applies to you?<P>isnt it all about seeking to meet the needs (being a giver) and getting your spouse to that same place so that they are in that giving mode as well? <P>i guess all that stuff makes sense and now that things have gone wrong its worth trying but its not really valuable for spouses who havent had to deal with this Affair stuff to know a little about what the anatomy of WS is and how they get sucked in to that fog... <P>i for one will applaud the information, i dont really care about the other woman in wisconsin, who should? <P>but i do think your all upset about abby giving to spouses valuable information that could help save their relationships. that this information is in complete alignment with the concepts presented here. <P>so i just dont get the anger sorry but your responce seems odd to me like you think this is all a waste of time. i disagree<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by chazbutler (edited May 18, 2001).]

Survivor-<P>My thoughts exactly-again Everyone seems so good at putting my thoughts on this board-LOL<P>Thanks for your input!<P>HurtButCoping-<P>I see where you are coming froma nd you have every right to fel appreciative of this type of information. <P>My problem is this was the farthest thing from my story ever-that is the reason for it making me so angry. <P>It seems assumed that every affair is caused for a legitimate reason-and that is simply not true!!!!!<P>Thanks for responding-I like to see all sides of the story.<P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."

Chazbutler-<P>What you are saying here makes a ton of sense-if this were the way the situation really was. In my case-and I am sure-many many others-it is NOT the case.<P>Let's do a briefing here.<P>I married the first time 3 weeks after I turned 18. I was married to my ex for 13 1/2 years. That marriage produced two wonderful sons but little else. We were both way too young and way to far from being ready for marriage and a family. My ex began to drink and use drugs fairly heavily. Every weekend was spent with my at home crying and suffering from extreme bouts of "the runs" while the ex was out partying-after having come home from work, picking a fight and therefore justifying his reasons for leaving.<P>I met my current H while still married to the ex. My now H was also in a bad amrriage. His ex didn't do anything with him-she didn't clean house, cook meals, not a thing. I think she would most likely tell you this is true. I can't say whether or not she loved him-she just didn't do anything with him. She also ahd a guy hanging around her place of work whom she would not ask to leave her alone as my H requested numerous times she do.<P>Anyhow-my H and I discovered we had the same likes-right down to both of us liking spinach (you don't find too many who can eat that stuff). My H said all he wanted was someone to love him-same as I. He wanted to be #1 in someone's life-same as I. He doesn't drink, smoke or do drugs-same as I. He is a hard worker-same as I. And my H is a HUNK (woops-sorry-got off track).<P>My H was and still is #1 in my life. I love him by far more than I ever thought possible. He never had a reason-not a legit one-to have an A. While I am only human-thus being not perfect-I never ever stopped loving this man. And had he said to me he was going to have an affair I would have let him know that my love was still there for him. He did everything behind my back-yet I was responsible? I think NOT.<P>We got married in 1989. In 1990 we had our daughter, in 1992 we had our son. We were both trying very ahrd to do all we could to acquire things a family needs and wants. My H is a workaholic. He was working 2 jobs by 1997. I was cleaning numerous houses for people and doing bookwork for 2 different people. My H's main job was rotating shift work. WE seldom saw each other but I never worried about an affair. My H is a very loving person and I never had any warning signs. We did and still do not fight. We seldom argue.<P>The person my H had an affair with was my best friend. They both knew what they were doing-both of them were married. It was plain and simple a LUST thing so far as I am concerned.<P>I asked him WHY he did this at least a million times. His only answer ever has been that he didn't think I loved him any more. <P>After 9 years of being with him and begging him to spend time with me only to have him run off to work I had made the decision to do all I could to earn $$$$ to contribute towards buying a house and other items we wanted/needed.<P>My simple contributions led him to an A?<P>I don't buy it.<P>It was lack of self esteem. It was a willing and maybe a persuing accomplice.<P>It was lust.<P>And I hate to say it but I am sure it was FUN, NEW, EXCITING.<P>Marriages do get duller as time goes on. But it DOES NOT mean that you can go have an affair becasue I picked up the crying baby-the baby that you and I made together dear. It doesn't mean I will never wash dishes becasue you need my attention 24/7. Hell honey-why don't you come in the kitchen with me and help wash the dishes. After all-you ate off them too.<P>The reason this letter made me so mad is because it is so far from real. It works both ways. And I felt as though this gal in Wisconsin thinks her **** don't stink. WEll-it does-same as the rest of us.<P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."<p>[This message has been edited by heartache (edited May 18, 2001).]

What chazbutler said...that's what I was trying to say! This column is just about emotional needs...<P>Heartache, You have really been an inspiraton to me in your handling of the affair in your life. I am so glad that you chose to share what has worked for you to revive your marriage after the affair. <P>I wanted to say that up front because I need to ask a tough question and I don't want you to think that I'm picking on you.<P>You said that you thought that lack of self esteem was a big contributor to your husband's decision to have an affair. I think that is a big contributor for my husband as well. <B>But</B> I honestly believe that if I had realized that admiration was such a HUGE emotional need for him I could have fended off the local PA. I know that I have changed the way I deal with him as a result of my knowledge of emotional needs. (Here's the question...) Have you changed your way of dealing with your husband at all since the affair? If so, do you think that if you had changed before the affair it might have affected his decision?<P>Again, let me emphasize that I'm not trying to pick on you. I just think that the woman in that column may have been trying to help spouses fend off affairs.<P>Thanks.<BR>HBC <p>[This message has been edited by HurtButCoping (edited May 18, 2001).]

<I>I asked him WHY he did this at least a million times. His only answer ever has been that he didn't think I loved him any more. </I><P>i read and re-read your post, this just jumped up off the page.<P>isnt this it? the reason? that there were things he needed to feel loved? (self esteem/ self love being a part of that yes but one you have significant influance in) and he wasnt getting them from you? <P>i am not absolving him of responsibility, the choices he made where his, you werent the one having an affair, the affair is his deal.<P>but from what i read in your post, i wouldnt be so quick to absolve you of responsibility for the condition of your marriage.<P>you were not observing the rule of time! and you absolve yourself of the responsibility by saying you didnt have the ability to choose whether he was working so much or not. do you still have that opinion? if he was to be away from you so much that you were not able to appropriatly attend to his needs and he to yours would you still just say i cant do anything about it? <P>i feel like i am being a little antaganistic please dont let me offend you, its not my intent.<P>try this on for size. <P>would you say that the people who have significant influance in your life have an affect on your opinion of yourself? would it hurt you to know that your mother or minister was dissaproving of you or your actions?<P>i guess what i am getting at is that to stand and say that it was his self-esteem that contributed without taking responsibility for how you contributed to his esteem is a little niave.<P>

HBC-You have me chuckling here You will never ever offend me by asking me a question! I am a rare breed-I like honesty beyond all else and if it has to hurt me in the process then so be it. I want truth, honesty, no lies.<P>I am thinking-and I am dialing my H's cell # right now to ask him what you asked me-so I can get his feedback too.<P>Before I call and get his input thought I will answer as I see it.<P>I think I haven't changed much-if at all. I mean.......I feel this huge tremendous surge of love whenever I think of my H-how does it get any better? I tell him he is sexy, I tell him I love him. But I ams till the same person I was. I sadly don't think anything would have changed the decision he made. As I see it-this was a temptation he jsut could not resist. Sadly-men enjoy sex-whether it be in love or in lust. I myself think this is the biggest reason they have affairs. And-not all the people having affairs are men. I will guess the women doing it are doing it for the reasons I have seen posted here. They are lacking big time attention! A lot of men are not good at showing mushy emotional stuff. I am lucky to have a guy that tells me daily-a zillion times-that he loves me. He has no trouble showing his affection.<P>Now I am on the phone with H. He says he thinks had I been more attentive he would have made a much better decision. He thinks I have lightened up somewhat-I am more spontaneous.<P>I asked him if he thinks he would have not done it had I been more attentive-he said he can't answer that. Too many if's. He says everyone likes attention-himself included. He doesn't really know if anything would have swayed his poor decision.<P>He says all marriages get into a comfortable zone-and that is where the trouble lies. The ONE thing people need to remember is to take time now and then to make it HOT and Steamy-just for old times sake.<P>Does this help? I hope so!!!<P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."

chaz, chaz, chaz-LOL<P>I hate to admit it but I wasn't going to cause a major fight over his working! I would much prefer a working man than a lazy [censored]. So-after 8 years of begging him to find time for me and the kids I decided to more like "go with the flow". I got my kids into preschool so that the 3 of us could meet people that would maybe fill the void in our lives. I got some work to fill my time and to help contribute to our goals.<P><BR>if he was to be away from you so much that you were not able to appropriatly attend to his needs and he to yours would you still just say i cant do anything about it? <P>NO-but.......................after 13 1/2 years with my ex I didn't want to fight about anything ever again. I have eben worn out with the fighting in my first marriage. I enjoy peace. I never thought I had to worry about trusting my H-NEVER. And so I thought maybe I was trying to "change" him. You know the old saying-the only person you can change is yourself.<P><BR>It is really hard to show someone how great thou art when they are never home. I never was able to wake up at midnight just to fool around and satisfy that need of his. I had kids, a house, horses,work, and HIM to worry about.<P>would you say that the people who have significant influance in your life have an affect on your opinion of yourself? would it hurt you to know that your mother or minister was dissaproving of you or your actions?<P>ABSOLUTELY<P><BR>i guess what i am getting at is that to stand and say that it was his self-esteem that contributed without taking responsibility for how you contributed to his esteem is a little niave.<P>I didn't NOT do anything to damage my H's self esteem. He has always thought he was unattractive-trust me he is far from that!!!!! It is what he felt inside himself that helped him make this decision to ahve an affair. I was not asked-and it was not my decision!!<P>Maybe I am niave.<P><BR>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."<p>[This message has been edited by heartache (edited May 18, 2001).]

Hi Chaz,<P> Hey, yes, I believe in the emotional needs thing but ultimately the decision to have an affair is the betrayers and NOT because of the spouse who didn't do this or that.Harley even says this. The betrayer may be vulnerable to an affair but usually the betrayed spouse is not getting their needs met either.Let's give credit where credit is due. <P>Yes, we should try to meet our spouses needs but what if they don't tell you what they are or what they are missing? To me it's like telling someone that the reason their spouse is an alcoholic is because of them. <P>The reason these attitudes "frost" us betrayeds is because of the blame the betrayers heap on us in general.........LU

Thank you Lu-<P>I truly thought my marriage was wonderful! I aslo thought my friends marriage was intact. There was not a clue that either of them was lacking in their lives.<P>I may be wrong-or maybe just niave-but I truly think it was an urge they gave in to. I don't think either of them liked themselves afer making the poor decison they made.<P>But it was their decision and their decision only!<P>I admitted once and will again to only being human and not super woman and certainly not perfect. But I do love and cherish my H and that has never faltered a day in all the years I have known him.<P>Thanks for coming to help me out here-I appreciate it :-)<P><P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."

heartbreak,<P><I>I didn't NOT do anything to damage my H's self esteem</I><P>id be willing to put some money on that! how about what did you do to boost it? sounds like you knew he had a problem how did you help him?<P>i am the last one to pick at you heartbreak i failed my marriage in a huge way so i am just tuning in to some of the things in your story that hit me square just as you did the article.<P>this is just an outside observation, but he did make time to be with someone who spent time boosting his self image, dont you agree?<P>are you sure to do it now?<P><BR>

Thank you for answering my question, heartache! <P>I never meant to suggest that you might have done something to damage your husband's self-esteem...I am wondering if there is possibly something you and I could have done to tary to bolster our husband's self esteem.<P>I think that chaz has something with the time question, though...too often we tend to get bogged down in the day-to-day "have to dos" and forget that spending time with the spouse should be on that list, too. I think we tend to push that over to the "nice to have" list, and we lose out...<P>Seriously, I think that this Ann Landers column could help some people...if only folks can see themselves in there and not just see a mean, husband-stealing female telling us what to do...<P>Blessings, heartache!<BR>--HBC

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww-this is getting nasty!!!<P>First of all my name is heartache-not heartbreak. It only hurts-it isn't broken!!<P>Secondly-he spent time-and very little if you msut know-with someone who met him for sex. He said there was never any emotional attachment although I much prefer to think he had some-as he is a very loving person!<P>The OW LB big time-all the time-even going as far as saying she would kill herself if he told me what they were doing.<P>NOPE-I didn't cause the affair my husband chose to have-he did!!!!<P>Sorry<P><P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."

Thanks again HBC-<P>I know you weren't making any suggestions that I di damage to my H's self esteem.<P>As for spending time with a spouse I do believe they need to be there-and at an appropiate time-to make time with them possible <P>I am sure this column of Ann's will help some!! No doubt about it. What gets my goat is the OW's attitude that by being what we are-wives-we are not meeting our mans needs. Come on-life consists of children, jobs, housework, running errands..............etc!!!!! It doesn't mean you don't love your mate for goodness sake!! She sounds as though she does nothing but cling to him-and that makes me sick. Most men do NOT like being clung to.<P>Again-thanks a bunch!!!<P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."

Lu, Heartache:<P>I'd suggest that you read one of Steve Harley's older articles, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8503_fft.html" TARGET=_blank>But No One Told Me!</A><P>I think it illustrates the point that chaz is trying to make. Like it or not (fair or not)---if you want a great marriage, you have to take responsibility for your performance in the marriage. "But S/he didn't tell me how..." might feel good---but it doesn't address the issue. If your marriage is truly important to you, take that proactive approach!<P>God bless.

K-<P>I went and read the article-I think I have read it before-it rang a bell!<P>Here is my dilema-or me being niave.<P>I was here-I worked all my jobs to try my damndest to get home for my H no matter what his damn schedule was. He was not doing this for me!<P>I always had meals ready and waiting for him, his kids were always in bed at a decent time and clean, his house was clean, his ayrd ws mowed. I would do anything to help out!<P>So how did I cause this? I ahd no clue-how do you manage to make sure THIS **** DOESN'T HAPPEN?<P>I think he would have drawn the line at me tagging to him like a small child with his blankie.<P>I do NOT get it yet I guess.<P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."

<I>"If <B>you</B> don't have an affair with your spouse, someone else will"</I><P><BR>Ann is usually a numbnut....to me, at least.....<P>but this time, she does not say it 'properly', perhaps, or in the way 'we' would like her to phrase it, but in essence, yeah...I can take that to heart.....<P>if he needs those things, then <B>I</B> should be the one providing them...and vice versa.....<P>get what you need from <B>each other</B> at home...then there's no need to even entertain the thought of going elsewhere....<P>I am fully aware of what it is that Deut 'got' from OW...sounds much like what that woman wrote......<P>I am able to admit that now, look at it, and just 'do it'...but differently.....'my way'....<P><BR>it's perhaps time that the compacent housewives of the world woke up...they who think it can't ever happen to them......yeah......right......ummm.....<P>we wives need to be the women our H's are having their affairs with....<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>"The journey into darkness has been long and cruel, and you have gone deep into it."<BR>~ A Course in Miracles

so are you saying they won't get bored with us-ever-if we do it right all the time?<P>I think..............................at least I think I do................................that some poeple would like to try something "new" and that means with someone "else".<P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."<p>[This message has been edited by heartache (edited May 18, 2001).]

IMO, it appears that this former OW/now W, can't even act upon what she believes in! She had to take another person's H to prove her point! Why couldn't she take her beliefs and practice them on her first H?<P>Instead...she writes this letter to Ann Landers to justify her affair.<P>Yes...I do understand "emotional needs," but a betrayed person doesn't have to be lectured by the OW about what needs to be done to keep/save a marriage.<P>As I mentioned earlier, this woman is a hypocrite. She couldn't even practice what she preached in her first marriage! She went to someone else's H to do it!<P>