Your threads and responses are ever so eloquent! Although I haven't read all your posts, I have read a few. I can't remember reading anything negative about your H and I think that is commendable. <P>I understand some stray because of underlying marital issues and I know your issues were from within yourself. I believe my H's lying and infidelities come from within as well. He has always said I have met his ENs and I haven't given him a real reason to stray.<P>The problem is he never gets the help he needs to heal himself and so the excuse is still good enough. How do I tell him without LBing that this time he needs to get healed and I'm not accepting his excuse anymore. He's always blamed his mother for destroying his self-esteem ya da ya da ya da and so he seeks the love and attention from many women (mostly on an emotional level).<P>I read in a book the other day (When Your Lover Lies) that childhood is not a valid reason to lie - everyone had a bad childhood (so to speak) and not everyone lies and cheats.<P>What sort of therapy did you seek for yourself and what was some breakthrough moments? How will I know if my H has truly healed?<P>I sort of relate to your story. I always felt that sex meant love for me so although I had mostly long term relationships, I thought I needed to sleep with them right away. I usually slept with them and then we started a long term relationship only to be devastated when they left me.<P>I am not proud of my sexual past and I at times sink into depression because of my guilt. My H has said some things in the past to make me feel even more guilty that I shared so openly to him about my past. I haven't shared everything because of his reaction. I don't 100% agree with the radical honesty policy, but I can see how it can free you. I just don't feel 100% safe that my H won't throw it in my face.<P>A bit of history, I had an affair with a MM when I was about 22. He was so smooth and it was all sexual on his part (he had many women at the same time I soon discovered). He led me to believe we would eventually be together. He would put me on the speaker phone in one part of the house when his wife was in another part. I sometimes heard their conversations since I was on speaker. He knew how to woo me with gifts and $$$ and I loved the attention since I was struggling to make ends meet on my own. I am not proud of this time in my life. I have shared this with my H. Sometimes I feel as though God is paying me now for this affair.<P>Thank you for sharing!<P> <P>------------------<BR><B><I>RECOVER * REFOCUS * REGENERATE ~ BREATHE * RELAX</I></B><P>By Eleanor Roosevelt ~~<BR><UL TYPE=SQUARE><BR><LI>"People grow through experience if they meet life honestly and courageously. This is how character is built." <P><LI>"No one takes advantage of you without your permission."<BR></UL>

Free2be -<P>Oh, God doesn't do revenge. . .I mean he will against the wicked but not against people who are trying to do the right thing and get "lost." God is very kind and merciful, he is not "paying you back" for having an affair so many years ago.<P>What I've come to really realize is that sometimes bad things happen to good people, and sometimes good people do bad things. We make mistakes, but we have to learn from those mistakes, be sorry (which I think you are) and try to change ouselves and our lives for the better. And that's why I think forgiveness is really important in the "healing" process - particularly when you know you've done something wrong. You cannot go back and change things, but you can take it to God and tell him how sorry you are, and then to turn from that sin to live the way he had intended.<P>I don't think God gave us the ten commandments or "rules" to live by to hurt us - or to make sure we didn't have any fun. But God, knows alot more - he knows everything and we know nothing - so that's why he gave us the Bible, that's why he gave us his word to live by - not to hurt us or to make sure we didn't have any fun, but because he knew that certain things were bad for us. That adultery would only develop holes in our self-esteem and our self-worth and integrity - as well as develop holes in our relationship with God.<P>For me, as a WS, a lot of the healing comes from accepting the fact that what I did was wrong, there was no excuse for it, and to not place blame on anyone else. If you can own the mess that you are in, than you can do things to help yourself get through it.<P>My past - well, it would make a pretty good novel - but really, something happened to me in college that really changed me - and not in a good way. For years, I tried to forget what had happened, but I just kept making wrong decision after wrong decision - not knowing it at the time, but I had dug this really huge pit for myself. Sure, I could sit here and say "Boy, if that never happened, I don't think I would have had the low self-esteem that I have now." And just push the blame on something or someone else. But I cant'.<P>I was the one who chose to have an affair, I was the one who chose to decieve my H and my friend. There may have been things that led up to the mess I was in, but really, I went along with my life thinking I could solve all of my problems instead of looking to God for guidance. Yes, you have to accept responsibility for what you did, you have to look at everything that could have lead up to this point, but ultimately, I am the one who will be held accaountable for all of my actions. When I meet God, he's not going to accept excuse like having a bad childhood, being raped, any of it. Because, really, it's not so much what happens to you, but how you deal with it that matters.<P>You can't keep replaying old video tapes in your mind of every wrong thing you did in your wife - that will only lead you to despair and feelings of worthlessness - that which happened to me. But what you can do, is recognize your mistakes and try to learn from them. And the only real way you can learn from them is to own-up to your role.<P>Yes, some people have lousey childhoods. Yes, some people have been abused as children - and that is a tragedy, one that God doesn't condone or cause to happen to punish a sweet innocent child, but God does give us everything we need to get out of those situations, and to stop remembering them as adults. All we have to do is reach out and grab what he give us.<P>I don't think God is "paying you back" but maybe there are still some things that you need to learn. I think there are probably a lot of things your H still needs to learn. I think the biggest thing to help me get through this - even though I took it to the extreme and became hopeless - was to accept the fact that I do have control over my actions. Accept the responsibility and do what you can to make changes. For your H, maybe he's still trying to learn that even though you get dealt a bum deal as a kid, you still have to have control over your actions as an adult. If you H is Christian, and wants to read about a rough childhood, have him read the story of Joseph towards the end of Genesis. His brothers sold him into slavery - they wanted to kill him at one time, but Joseph never lost sight of God and his faith is waht kept him strong.<P>For you, the story woudl be good to read, because at the very end, Joseph names one of his children the Hebrew word for Forget. Joseph, by this time was very well-off and could have named his child after God and his riches or powrfulness or anything, but he named him after forget. Because God can't go back and change what happened, but he can give you the power to forget and move on with your life - to be forgiving of people who may have hurt you in the past, or help you to forgive yourself for hurting other people.<P>It is one thing to be sorry and remorseful before God, to humble yourself before him, but guilt after some many years, well, it's just the darkness trying to weken your spirit any way that it can. So, you need to take your problems to God, ask for mercy and forgiveness, but then you need to forgive yourself, too. For me, it was pretty bad. Before I was married, I met and had slept with almost 30 men. Talk about slut, whore. I felt like I was worse than a prostitute, but I really was pretty pitiful, because I thought love was right around the corner - true love, and that made it okay.<P>And, I guess, now, I kind of appreciate "God's Rules" for my life. Had I done things his way from the very beginning, I think I would have saved myself a lot of heartache. I cannot go back abd change things, decisions I made or what happened, but growing in God's love and trying to live as he would want me to live - well, that's what has made the difference in my life.<P>I still have breakdowns every now and then. And, I can be pretty selfish a lot of the time with my H - but I'm working on it.<P>In life, I think we run into certain situations, not because God is trying to pay us back, but because he wants and needs to teach us something - maybe its to rely on him more for courage and strength, maybe its to trust his in his love and mercy for us, maybe its to teach us to be more understanding and more forgiving of each other and ourselves.<P>So, don't come down on yourself too hard. I know I did for a while, and it's no fun. God doesn't want us to keep berrating ourselves. He wants us to enjoy the gifts he has given us, he wants us to enjoy life, but know that there will always be struggles. My H knows just about everything there is to know about me and my past, and I think it's helped him to understand why I am the way that I am - that I am not always like this, but I have times, too, when I think too much about what happened in the past.<P>Free - you need to free yourself. Admit that somethings you did were wrong, but understand that you can have forgiveness, too. For your H, yes, they are just excuses. For me, I had to accept full responsibility before I could ever change. I never got counseling (but probably could have used huge amounts of it; I never got medications (though I could have used large doses); most of the help I got came from spritual and mental growth. I read everything I could on infidelity, I joined a bible study group - which has been like a light switch going on in my mind; I have read inspirational books by Christian authors, and I post here - that has probably been the best therapy for me as a WS. You really need to see the pain that BS go through to fully appreciate the whole realm of issues. When you just look inside yourself for answers, you may not find a good one. But reading other stories here, well, it did help me to figure things out. So, that's why I encourage WS to read and post here, caused it helped me to see everything 360 degrees.<P>Thanks for your message, but never think that you deserved to have this happen to you. But you need to decide how you're going to deal with it - that's what matters most.<P>Take care, okay

Thank you for the kind words and for the inspiration!<P>I just found out my H has yet a different email address and he's emailed the woman I found out about last September. She said he left a message on her voicemail and also an email. She said she didn't respond to either.<P>He told her he has new work hours that I didn't know about. He's been working 8:30 to 4:30, but he told her he now works 7-3:30. He never leaves the house before 8 so I don't know how that's working and he has left early many days in a row, but he said his new boss lets him go early.<P>I didn't tell him I know of this email account or that I've emailed with this woman - but I told him I don't want this anymore. I don't think he will ever stop lying. He told me just 2 days ago he was going to do everything possible to change and make our marriage work.<P>I'm so crushed that he will continually lie to me!<P>Thank you for the response!<P>

Free2be -<P>I just got a chance to read your message, but I don't know. I think if I were you, I think I would have to be totally honest with your H and let him know that you have access to his email account and that you have emailed this OW. Don't take this the wrong way, I know why you haven't told him about this, but it's kind of ironic that you want him to be completely honest with you, yet you haven't told him exactly what you know and how you know. For me, if I had this information, I think I'd have to tell him - just because I don't think I could keep it to myself - it would make my blood boil to the point that I wouldn't trust him either.<P>But, if you know he is lying to you, if it were me, I'd have to call him on it. You don't have to claim ignorance, and maybe he'll be mad for you snooping, but he hasn't exactly been a saint, and if he wants to make your marriage work, than you two, I would think - would need to be honest with each other. In a way, that's the one thing that my h and I are now - we are completely, 100% honest with each other - about everything really, our thoughts, feelings, everything. <P>I don't want to sound like I know everything, but complete honesty has worked for us, and maybe that might help. Give your H a chance to come totally clean - doesn't me you have to trust him, but you might want to give him that chance to explain why he's been doing what he has been doing. And, I guess, too, you'd want to make sure that the OW is being honest as well. I mean how much can you really trust her, too? <P>Just some food for thought (like you haven't already thought about it ).

Hi, SKM,<P>Thank you!<P>My H knows I check his email account, but he always has another way (this new address through work). I didn't want to tell him I've been emailing this woman because I didn't want to hear him blame everyone but himself for the contact.<P>I did finally tell him and just as I suspected - he blamed it all on her and that she's bitter so she's trying to sabatage him/us! he said he called and emailed her to find out what she was up to. I don't believe him. He told her about new work hours and I haven't even heard about new work hours. And he emailed her from a different email address. If he was concerned he should have told me and allowed me to see the email activity on the account he knows I check. He told her he'd been out of town and I had his password and was going to change it.<P>I believe her. She contacted him a couple weeks ago to send back the pictures he'd sent her. She is sending them to me since I asked her to. <P>So I did tell him about my emailing her. He continues to lie. He gives me no reason to ever believe in him. I feel like a fool - I feel like he's complaining about me to everyone and all 'm trying to do is have a wonderful marriage.<P>I did agree to go to our counseling session tonight, but I'm only going to listen. <P>We watched Sex, Lies & Obsession on Lifetime last night. I'm surprised he watched part of it with me. The lady in the movie has the counselor give him a lie detector test every 3 months. Hmmmm..... <P>Thanks again!<P> <P>------------------<BR><B><I>RECOVER * REFOCUS * REGENERATE ~ BREATHE * RELAX</I></B><P>By Eleanor Roosevelt ~~<BR><UL TYPE=SQUARE><BR><LI>"People grow through experience if they meet life honestly and courageously. This is how character is built." <P><LI>"No one takes advantage of you without your permission."<BR></UL>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I have shared this with my H. Sometimes I feel as though God is paying me now for this affair.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Whew, do I know how you feel. I once cheated repeatedly on a girlfriend. I lived with her for three years so it was a serious relationship. If you haven’t yet, free2Bme, I’d encourage you to read brokendreamsx’s “poll on sex addiction” thread. You’ll see there are others like you and me who deal with these issues. <P>I think it’s interesting that when we are betrayed by our spouses, after the first wave of shock, many of us feel almost compelled to look at, and talk about, our own mistakes. It’s as if by finding forgiveness for ourselves we will somehow find it for our spouse as well.<P>Like SKM, I don’t think God punishes us, but what I think you and I feel is the sad realization that by failing to fully face our own sins, we allowed ourselves to slip into the sort of dishonesty where betrayal can happen.<P><BR>When I met my W, I was a “recovering addict”. I told my W all about my “triumph” over narcotics, but I never mentioned that I’d been involved with dozens of women, and had been unfaithful. He**, I’d even had sex with my girlfriends mother! No, I rationalized it, thinking it would only hurt her to hear that stuff, and that I had changed. What happened, though, was that my W had me on a pedestal, and she felt less than – unworthy. She felt she couldn’t share her deepest hurts – that I wouldn’t love her if I really knew her. Little did we both know that, deep inside, we had exactly what we needed to heal each other. Oh the terrible pain we've had to go through to get to where we are today.<P>Free2Bme, keep sharing with your H, even if you think he’ll throw it up at you. PJ would often throw the stuff up at me early on. Over time she has come to see the honesty as a gift to her. It’s helped her to feel that there is a way for our marriage to be healed. That she is not less than me – just in a different place on the road.<P>David<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Davidb (edited May 21, 2001).]

Hi, David,<P>I've been passing that thread by that you mentioned - I'll check it out.<P>I sent an email to the woman my H started making plans to meet a couple weeks ago (I had called her enraged and I emailed her enraged, and I left a message on her home machine to stop contacting my H). I simply said I was sorry for my misplaced anger (towards her) and that it belonged at my H. I said she tempted him, but he's the one who agreed to meet. I ended by saying I hoped she could accept my apology. I forwarded this email to my H so he would know about it. Well, she called him asking what the hell was going on. I told him she is obviously shallow to see an apology for what it was and that her guilt was showing. I still think they may have met or are still making plans bcs I now know about the other email address. It only proves to me that she is interested in more than just a friendship since she can't even "face me" by responding.<P>I guess I should give him credit for calling me and telling me she called him. <P>We do have a counseling appt. this afternoon and I'm curious to see how it goes. I'm basically shutting down!<P>Thanks for the response!<P>