I'm beginning to believe OW is just a cover up for something deeper. <P>some background:<P>H and I met in 1986, we went out for a year, lived together a year and were engaged a year before married. Our first date ended in sex. (At the ripe old age of 23, I was still a virgin...a long story as to why.) A good part of dating and living together H often denied our relationship. Even though he was sleeping with me and relying emotionally on me, he would deny me to his friends and say we were "just pals." There was a time when I thought I might be pregnant--The pill made me crazy and he was not careful about using condoms. I had a condition that made my periods very irregular and I could go a couple of months with out one. I went to the dr and was diagnosed with Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome (POS)--no pregnancy. Well, he said we should get married if I was pregnant. When I found out I wasn't I said, "Do you still want to get married?" I don't remember what he said. I was a way for a week at a camp with my students. While away, I remember thinking I had to leave that he really didn't love me.<P>While I was gone, our dog died. I returned and he said, he missed me. He realized he loved me and he wanted to get married. I was so happy! I never told him about what I had thought about while I was away. We were married a year later in 1989. <P>The first years of our marriage he worked in the movie industry which meant long hours away. Sex when we had it seemed good. But we'd fight about money, chores and his being away. This went on for 3 years. I expressed a desire for children and he didn't openly resist. (He now reminds me that before we were married he always said he didn't want them.) Because of my prior diagnosis of POS, I had fertility problems. He went through treatments with me. I took Clomid and became pregnant in 1992. Our first son was born 9/93. A couple of years later, I took the drugs again. I remember talking with him about it and asking if he was ready for another child. I went back on Clomid for a couple of months, then changed my mind and stopped. I got pregnant anyway and our second son was born 1/96. During this time he quit the movie industry, we started having real financial problems. It's hard to live on a teacher's salary. He worked a couple of lower paying jobs, despite having a college education. His dream has always been to act and write.<P>My need for financial security pushed him to substitute teaching and getting a credential. Which 5 years later, he's still working on it. <BR>1997 was a hard year, we lost his grandma whom we were both close to. We both lost grandfathers and I had a miscarriage. I became very depressed. I became very angry and enraged. I never got treated for it and it took a big toll on us. I took a deep breath and a change of jobs after our third, SURPRISE, son was born 4/99. No drugs this time. Apparently my POS went into remission. I thought we were on the road to fixing our marriage.<P>We were really in financial straits now. He was subbing, in school and I was working as a teacher. We filed BK in 2000. He turned 40. Our fights got really nasty. I couldn't understand why he didn't seem to want to take care of his family. He didn't take care of the lawn. I had to constantly ask to get chores done. Nobody asked me to cook or clean or grocery shop. He started to sleep more frequently downstairs on the couch. He finally got a teaching contract and our money situation improved. <P>One fight in particular he said he never loved me, he never wanted to get married. He felt obligated. (I was a nice girl, I had never had sex with anyone but him.) So I basically convinced him to get married.<P>Now he says I demeaned him. I don't respect him. I strangle him. He just needs to not be married and he will do better things for us. He even has said he never agreed to have children, he just went along to keep me happy.<P>But I remember emotion. I remember how he looked at me and what he sang to me when we were married. I remember him waking up from a nightmare that he had where I had been killed and waking me up and just holding me because it scared him. I remember how he took care of me through the first pregnancy. The next two he was cold and distant. <P>Even now he's having a hard time leaving. This morning I tried to take off my ring for five minutes and couldn't do it. When I told him, he said his was never coming off. He sends such mixed signals. But, because I convinced him to get married, he will have no part in me convincing him to stay married. Even though 4-5 years ago, I mentioned leaving and he said time and time again we work it out. Now I say I found the tools (MB) to have us work on it for real...and he shakes his head. "You will not get what you want." "you've had your turn, now it's mine."<P>He's all I've ever know and I hurt so much. But as I think about our 14 years together, maybe I should just let him go.<P>------------------<BR>See each day as a new beginning!<P>Cali

Cali, read my post from a day or two ago (trapped - need advice - please help), many people wrote and had good advice. My husband is having/saying similar things as yours. In fact, many people on this site will say the same thing about their W/H, apparently this is typical withdrawal talk and shouldn't be taken literally.<P>At least that is what I got out of people posting to my problems. All I can tell you is hang in there and don't let him go just yet, especially if he is giving mixed signals. If he really wanted out, he'd be gone, you wouldn't have to let him go, there would be no question, he'd be gone. So far now, stay focused and keep trying. That is what I am trying and I actually had a good morning with my H today (yeah!).

Hi,<BR> I'm one of the lucky recovered persons out there. The way I did things isn't purely MBers but it worked like a charm with the good grace of God. It's been 20 months now and we are very happy.<P> Your story sounds much like mine. Same # of kids,same kinds of ups and downs, same # of years together. H said all the same things about the marriage. Same ambivalence. My H was badly depressed. I am lucky he got help with that. He refused to admit it for years when things were bad and getting steadily worse. He too wanted time for himself, had to figure out if he still wanted to be married. Our second child (multiply handicapped ) was conceived with Clomid. First and last pregnancies unplanned. Amazing that they can convince themselves that they never had a say in any of it.<P>H said he wanted to separate after I discovered his EA. It took him 2 months to go and I finally had to be the one to tell him I thought he should leave.I couldn't live with him vaccilating back and forth with the decision of whether to stay married or not, even though OW was not in the picture anymore.<P>He moved out for 2 months. It did wonderful things for him, for me and for our marriage. Go read my response to Snow White in her post "They lived happily ever after". I am blessed with a wonderful H now. I feel cherished for the first time in our marriage. Sometimes they need to move out to realize what they'll be leaving behind if they go for good. There is no way to truly see that reality unless you live it. For a short time, it can bring good things. Only you know what might work for your own H. This is just worked for me and worked very well, even though it was the scariest thing I've ever done in my life. All the best to you.

Thank you hurtbyhubby:<BR><B>Cali, read my post from a day or two ago (trapped - need advice - please help), many people wrote and had good advice. </B>[/QUOTE]<P>Wow! except for our ages I can't believe how similar our stories are. I think trapped is how he's feeling. I think he's in a depression. (His father suffers with depression as well.) I tried to talk to him about depression yesterday and it didn't go well. I am afraid if he leaves and it doesn't go the way he wants it to his depression will worsen. I even worry about suicide. I am scared for him. <P>I made an appointment for myself to get some kind of antidepressent. Luckily I work with my best friend and she has takes me out of my classroom when I am on the edge. (My emotions are so surface that some days all I do is cry.)<P>I haven't called him at work today and I am resolved not to. I will not ask him to leave. But I will not ask him to stay either. I will prepare for the worst case senario and get myself together for my sons.<P>I will pray that the fog will lift, that he will get help for his depression and that we can get on the road to recovery.<P><P>------------------<BR>See each day as a new beginning!<P>Cali

Wow. It seems many husbands are saying the same thing. Severe stress on the job he does not handle well. I told him not to bring work home & I wouldnt talk about it. He went from saying he needed time & us to be seperated, to saying I have to let him go & have to sign divorce papers. He became very withdrawn from me. Its a real rollercoaster. It gets to the point I think where their own self thoughts are negative & they tend to give up & give in to the depression.<P>Try to think clearly (not emotionally) what it is you really want? Letting him see you cry, trying to reason with him, pleading, fighting definately wont work! It made mine alot worse. Dont change what you do at home - laundry, meals, kids etc. Try to give him some space for now, until he can think for himself more clearly. I think my H just got overwhelmed (the books I'm reading call it "flooding") by what he perceived as criticism of him or nagging.<BR>Try not to let your emotions get the best of you. Step back & ask yourself questions. (- generic example of a H coming home late - wife thinks he must be having an affair or something. Our emotions tell us it is so 100%, but if we rationalize the real source of our thoughts we might tell ourselves 'well maybe his meeting lasted longer than expected-). I have made the comment elsewhere that I feel like I have an angel whispering in 1 ear, but the devil trying to persuade me otherwise in the other!<P>So many here have been in the same place as you, for different reasons with different outcomes. I would say give your husband some space & if he wants to talk to you to try to be a willing listener without defensiveness or judgement. (I got defensive myself - its a very hard thing to do when you feel they're blaming you). Hang in there. I think many work in the "Plan A" even if there is no emotional or physical affair.<p>[This message has been edited by cantletgo (edited May 30, 2001).]

I agree with the nagging/arguing - don't do it. When I first found out about OW, my husband was very confused, he wanted me but had these feelings he didn't know how to deal with, said he and OW were in "love", but I believe now it was just a fantasy.<P>Over the next 3 weeks I became very depressed, whenever we talked it was about OW, I was very distrusting, had to know everything he was doing and nagged him endlessly about morals and how wrong it was to do what he was doing (seeing both of us at once). I believe now that if I had just given him space then and been "me" that he would have ended the whole thing, I just LBed like crazy during the 3 weeks and he ended up leaving me (after I slapped him because I found out he had been kissing her). But only for 4 days, then he couldn't stand it without the kids.<P>And here we are today. I have a husband that feels trapped, is depressed, is trying to get over OW (no contact in 11 days) , doesn't love me and wants to get away from everything. But, at least things are better than they were 2 weeks ago...<P>

I haven't called him all day! Woo. Woo.<P>He just called me to make plans for tonight and weekend. I have such a hard time when he sounds so pre- D-day. "Who's picking up kids. There's a dance recital at my school, which night do you want to go..."<P>I told him I had to leave my class again today because I was so emotional this am and I was thinking of going to dr. for antidepressant. He said he doesn't see how a pill is going to help. I told him I didn't know, but from what I read I just might not be so emotional. I guess I'll bring it up with the marriage counselor on Tuesday. <P>Thanks so much for your advice and support. Each post gives me encouragement when all I wanted to do today was give up. <P><P>------------------<BR>See each day as a new beginning!<P>Cali

Cali- my H is 42 and we've been married 15 yrs and have 3 kids just like you do. My H is having a mid life crisis and is depressed and is projecting this onto our marriage. I think thats at the root of his A with a coworker. She is single and appeals to the freedom from responsibility side of him. After he confessed he went 10 days going back and forth between us and I asked him to move out. He did for 3 wks yet missed the kids so much he came home almost every night for dinner yet was seeing a divorce attorney and looking at apts at OW's urging during his lunch hrs- talk about the FOG!!!!! I found that out and it REALLY made me mad. He then moved back home wanting to reconcile and I brought up the A alot which led to his defending OW and our fighting. A few wks later H surprised me with divorce papers and here he was sleeping in my bed and still wearing his wedding ring! He gave me the classic fog speech of how he got married because of his age and how we werent compatible, etc etc!!! Later that night we had a marriage counseling session and he confessed OW pressured him to file on me! He cancelled the papers the next day and after that I quit asking about the A. We are finally starting to get back on track now. Its been 3 mo. If your H is giving you mixed signals remember that he 'knows the road out of here 'so to speak. He is staying home for a reason so dont take that lightly.Mine was sleeping on the couch off and on and had periods of uncertainty about wanting to stay married but I refuse to give in to divorce and told him I absolutely disagree with that. time space patience those are key! Eventually his thinking will clear up when he quits talking to OW! lifeismessy