Hi all. I'm recently separated from my wife of ten years. We have one five year old daughter. Three weeks ago my wife asked me out to dinner and told me she didn't love me anymore and wanted to separate. She says it's because I neglected her and wasn't there for her when she needed me. This is true for the most part. <BR>However I also suspected that there was someone else in the picture. She denied it of course but after talking to a counselor friend of mine and some friends of her's my suspicions were confirmed. She was infatuated with the building contractor who was remodeling our house. He's a nice guy. Too nice! He did my wife alot of favors (not sexual, I hope)while he worked on my house. For example he would bring her lunch once in a while, drive her to the store, etc. At the same time my wife felt ignored and unapreciated by me.<BR> After she told me about wanting to separate, she immediately changed with me. She didn't want me to hug her or kiss her or even put my arm around her when we slept at night. She told me I would always be her good friend but that we could not and she would not continue married to me because she didn't want to feel like a hipocrite. Her love for me had died. A week after she announed the separation she asked me to leave. It was too painful for her to have me around. My presence bothered her and irritated her. I left to go live at my cousin's apartment. This was a mistake, I know. <BR>Since then she has admitted to me that she was attracted to the contractor but that he didn't know it. I consequently had myself a nice little talk with him. In somewhat polite terms I told him he was affecting my marriage and I wanted him out of the picture pronto. He denied having any knowledge of my wife liking him and that he would stop his communications with her. About two days later I found out he had picked her up at work to take her to the hardware store for some supplies he needed to get. I called him on his cell phone (while she was in the car with him) and let him have it. I advised him in no uncertain terms that if he ever spoke to my wife again he was going to be in serious trouble with me. I forbade him from seeing her, calling her, doing any favors for her, etc. He agreed to do this. However, now she is very angry with me. She told me she would never, ever, come back to me again and that if it hadn't been for our daughter whe would have left me years ago. Obivously, this hurt me very much. It means she HAS been a hipocrite in feigning love for me the last few years. <BR>I'm not sure at this point what I should do. Should I ignore her when she says never, ever? She was such a loving and devoted wife before. Now she always seems to have her guard up whenever I see her. She doesn't want to accept any favors or kindnesses from me. She rejects any offers of a date or any type of help. I saw her today and she seems stressed out and angry whenever she's around me. <BR>How should I handle this? People tell me I should just lay back and give her her space, others tell me to completely ignore her and that she'll eventually come back. But will she then read this as my being my old uncaring self. When I read these pages I think I should try plan A. But will she read this as my pressuring her and thus drive her away more? Should I try a combintation of both i.e. Be a kind and thoughtful person whenever I see her but otherwise not call her or try to talk to her? I bought her a night gown as a gift and she said she doesn't want it and doesn't want me buying her anything. Said she was giving me the gown back. I told her today that we needed to sit down together to go over joint bills etc. She told me she doesn't want to see me and that we can handle this over the phone. How should I read this? Should I go to plan B? She's very resentful towards me, probably because I took her boyfriend away. Also I think she's discovering that life on her own isn't all it's cracked up to be. <BR>She's angry and seems to be blaming me for her situation. We have the addtional stress of having the on going work on our house to finish and coming up with the money to finish it. So it's difficult to try and deposit Love Units when I'm asking her for money to help pay for the project. Please tell me what I should do. How do I deposit love units but yet not drive her away more? Thank you so much for your help.<P>------------------<BR>gdr<p>[This message has been edited by gdr (edited May 20, 2001).]

=<p>[This message has been edited by GraceLeigh (edited June 01, 2001).]

Welcome gdr:<P>Basically GraceLeigh has already given you very good advise..but it also occurs to me that this period of extreme reaction to you is your WS way of maintaining her resolve to leave the marriage. Yes...she's trying to keep her distance...emotionally and physically...because she is not sure of what she wants...at least not as sure as she is making out...its a lot of bravato. A lot of WS are mean, cruel and apparently uncaring to their S when the A is in progress.<P>Although you have blown apart the fantasy bubble your wife had constructed with OM, she is not ready to release the fantasy...she's made the emotional commitment to end the marriage and that's what's she going to do...right now.<P>So if you do as GraceLeigh suggests and ride out this wave of negativism in your wife, I believe she will begin to turn around...especially if you begin to meet some of the needs you feel you have neglected. The letter is a super idea because it delivers your message without imposing on her space. <P><BR>Hanging in there...continue to show your love...try to keep from LB (and that will get more difficulty the longer she stays in this extreme state)..use this time to learn all you can from MB...come here to vent if needed. We'll be here.<P>Faye

Thank you GraceLeigh and Faye, Your advice means so much to me at this time. I was getting very discouraged. I'm surprised that Faye caught on to the feeling that I get when I talk to her and that is that she is not sure she wants to go through with this. I get the feeling she is trying to be strong and trying remain committed to her decision. You are right, she put up with a lot of emotional neglect from me for a long time and got fed up. She tells me she doesn't think I can ever change. I didn't think so either but boy has this experience opened my eyes. However sometimes when I look in her eyes I see a searching there, almost as if she searching for something in me. I also see a sadness there. Lately though I see alot of anger. Yesterday when I saw her she looked very stressed out. I told her I was worried about her but she told me I have no need to worry about her. She's doing very well thank you. I will NEVER be the same man I was before. God what an idiot I was. I can't believe I didn't see this coming. I know I deserve what I'm getting but how do I show her that I really have changed? Any overture of kindness I give her is rejected. Is this part of the bravado you mentioned? Do I just keep trying and trying until she softens up? Will this drive her away more or will she eventually realize that she may consider me again. She's a very beautiful woman and the love of my life. I like the letter idea also and I'm going to write it today. Can you give me some more suggestions about what to say? Besides the letter how else do you think I can deposit love units with her. I was wondering, do you think I could call one of you sometime to talk about this briefly? I really appreciated your advise. It gave me hope when I was feeling ready to give up. I think she went out with OM last night. My e-mail address is gr91423@yahoo.com. If you like, you can e-mail me a phone number or I can e-mail you mine. I'll understand if you don't want to. Again thank you so much for you words of encouragement and help. God Bless you.<P>GDR<P>------------------<BR>gdr

=<p>[This message has been edited by GraceLeigh (edited June 01, 2001).]

Hi GDR,<P>Just a quick note, in addition to the other good info you have received here the fact that you are able to see that your W is showing signs of confusion, searching, frustration can mean that there is something for you to work with. You will learn here what to watch for. Litle signs, small steps of progress and sometimes large steps of regression. Support and care will come from here for you to use at home. <P>Here is my 2 cents. Take a look at the questionnaires on this site. The emotional needs questionnaire comes to mind as a good source to see where both your emotional needs stand. That will give you a platform on how to build towards recovery. While not a guarantee it is a step in the right direction. <P>Go Basic Concepts read all that is applicable and click on the questionnaires tab at the top. <P>L.

Hi GDR:<P>Sorry if I haven't gotten back soon enough but I usually only get on this board for a little while each day. <P>As to suggestions for the letter I think that it would be a mistake to make promises for change right now because I don't think she's ready for that. I really think I would just acknowledge that she probably has justifiable reasons for wanting out of the marriage and you have every intention of examining your part in what went wrong without making any overt promises to change. Ask her for suggestions for behaviors that you need to change...ask her when she thinks things began to change in your marriage...overall I think the tone of your letter should be one of gathering information to change...not promises to change (which are easy to make and more difficult to maintain or impliment)...give her an opening to relent just a little...by taking the blame wholly on your back (although that is usually not the case in any troubled marriage) you take away some of her guilt. Don't beg in this letter...show her your strength...in being willing to let her go if she really feels the marriage is over...and she may say that and not really feel it. Reaffirm your love for her and your sadness at letting her love slip away from you. <P>Please expect this not to be over quickly...it took her a long time to get where she is...and a lot of emotional wear and tear...she will need time to be convinced that change is possible in you...and that will be as a result of repetitive demonstrative actions on your part...Plan A.<BR>From this point on all interaction with her needs to be gentle, supportive and non-LBing. You need to win her back a little at a time...it will be hard...but if you trully love her you can do it.<P>Faye

Glad you found this site. First of all, understand that alot of the stuff you hear from your wife is textbook stuff for spouses having an affair. So don't take it personally.<P>For example, this sudden need to not have you around, this business of it being too painful to have you around, translates to "having you around makes it too hard to continue the affair". I lived the same thing. My wife denied there was anything, but "couldn't be home if I was here". So she stayed out till anywhere from 1 - 7 AM every night, while I was here with my 2 children. Guess what....turned out she was having a torrid love affair, that is probably still ongoing.<P>My wife would become frantic and irritated if I questioned this inability to have me around. She wanted me to be the one to leave. My advice to you is to move back in NOW and let her be the one to leave. There is no way it should be you. She is having the affair. Let her be the one to make changes and experience life differently, not so convenient.<P>Did she make it clear to you before this all started that you neglected her? I'm guessing not. Don't blame yourself for her having an affair. This is an all too common situation....lack of communication and then all of a sudden, you get told that you neglected your spouse. We don't expect these things to happen.<P>Read everything you can on this site, and keep us posted on how it is going. Get into a good Plan A, and if you don't know alot about it, read and ask questions. Your situation is very similar to many of us on here, so you aren't alone.<P>Take care.<P>PS: One other thing that I was told as well...make your posts short paragraphs...it is easier to read. You'll see that yourself!<P><p>[This message has been edited by Rick37 (edited May 19, 2001).]

Hi Aain. I was going to ask about her seeing OM tonight...was that the same man who was working on your house? I think it makes a difference as to how involved she is. If he was lying to you previously about his involvement then this could be a more serious relationship then it appeared at first. In fact, if she is expressing all this rejection of you because, as Rick indicates, she is trying to have more space for the "new" relationship, then you need to approach this matter differently.<P>I still don't think it would be in your best interest to try and force her to accept your presence in the house...even though it is not right that you have to leave when she had the affair. I'm really afraid that forcing her to do anything right now would be fruitless. Rick is right that some of this is textbook...I don't know why the WS often treat the BS with such vindictiveness...but it happens often and I think it's an act that allows them to separate themselves from the BS..if only in their mind...by calling forth all their bad feelings about their spouse they can maintain the fortitude necessary to tear apart their world and feel justified in doing so. It's a way of coping.<P>Believe me she doesn't want to hear anything from you that implies she might be wrong. So you're in a difficult place and can only wait until she reaches a more concilatory phase. And she will...I can remember my WS being so hateful in the 2 months prior to D-day and the two week after D-day...but all that disappeared after he moved out and had time to think about things for a while...and I left him alone to do his own thinking...not because I deliberately planned it that way but because I could not deal with him at that time...so we both benefited from the time apart.<P>Use this time to make yourself better acquainted with the MB principles...you'll be needing them when she once again faces reality and begins to come out of the fog. There really is help here if you just bother to stay awhile and look for it.<P>Faye<P> <P>

Oh goodness. I feel like I could be this man's wife (minus the running around with the contractor). WE'll be having our 9th anniversary this week and I would not be totally shocked if I ask him to leave before we hit 10. And it has absolutely nothing to do with another man -- although another man might speed up the process.<P>Some of the other responses have hit the nail on the head. I imagine it took years for her to get to this point. I am certain this is a very difficult and painful process for her as well, which is why she can't be around you. It's expected that she has conflicting feelings, and maybe she doesn't trust herself to stay true to protecting herself if she lets you in. I would look at the "never ever" as an unlikely scenario, but one you should be prepared for emotionally. I know I have stayed longer because I know I want to be strong in my resolve before I make that step because I don't fully trust myself to not fall to his charms again, and I know I will be in hell if I tell him I want to separate and then end up back with him.<P>I know this is mean, but what on earth possessed you to buy her a nightgown? If you wanted to do something nice for her and buy her a gift, this seems like an emotionaly-loaded poor choice. If I were in her shoes (as you described the situation), that would just fuel my resolve that I need out of this deal. The thoughts through my mind would be something like "I just told the SOB that I want nothing to do with him and he's STILL trying to get me in the sack for some nookie".<P>I would advise looking into your heart and start trying to genuinely change yourself. You can't expect to just go through the motions outlined in the plan A or any other plan and think she'll buy it and come running back. She's gonna think you're full of crap and just putting on an act. You're only hope will be for her ot believe that you've genuinely changed within your heart, and that's gonna take time!!! It's gonna take time to genuinely change the ideas, behaviors, and attitudes that got you here, and even longer to convince her of the change. And even if things can't be resolved with her, a lot of the concepts outlined here will serve you well in the future if you genuinely integrate them into your nature.<P>I doubt she's resentful of you for taking away her BF (although I'm sure it's angered her). She's resentful for years of crap and finally the anger is more than she can contain. You mentioned that she's been a hypocrite for not being honest about her feelings the past few years. Maybe think about what kind of atmosphere has been created in your marriage that ocntributed to this. I know I am not honest about my feelings becaue I know they will be trivialized and that he will turn it around and make it my fault that I'm being tormented.<P>I'm sorry if this sounds unsupportive. But maybe some brutal honesty from the other side will be enlightening. But even after all this, if my hubby came to me with a genuine heartfelt desire to work on our problems and restore our marriage, I'd be skeptical, but delighted. And I would throw myself into the process. But I won't have any faith in the reality of this being a safe, satisfying relationship for me without seeing a genuine change in the nature of his heart and spirit. It would take a LONG time to convince me it wasn't temporary. But I can't promise that I'll still have the emotional reserves for that a year from now.<P>I wish you luck in your journey. I guess my advice is to faithfully engage in the process of becoming a better spouse, without being so focused on a specific outcome.<P>LG

Hi all. Thanks for your advice. Well I wrote the letter yesterday. I told her I loved her, I thanked her for all the years that she tried to make our marriage work and for putting up with my lack of understanding and support. I told her I understand why she is so angry, resentful and disillusioned with me. I told her that I missed her and that she's constantly on my mind. I told her the reasons which caused me to act towards the contractor the way I did. I feel he's a bad character. (He's an alcholoic, a womanizer and a woman beater.) <BR> I guess I made the mistake of promising her that I have changed. I told her I would be waiting when she is ready. I ended by telling her I loved her. I got no response from her yesterday. I called her this morning to discuss the matter of a garage sale we're planning on having to sell some of joint stuff. That was okay. <BR>Then I mentioned that I had forgotten to write something in the letter and that was that I was in the process of change and that I could use her help and advice in changing and becoming better. That's when she went off. She said she hadn't read the letter that she wasn't going to read the letter that I need to understand that it's over and to stop insisting and insisting or that she didn't know what she was going to do. She sounded very angry and said that if kept this up even our friendship would be over. I asked her to please read the letter that it would explain a lot of things. She said she would not. I get the feeling that she really did read the letter and that is why she's reacting so emotionally. If she hadn't read it how would she know that I was still trying to work things out? It could have been a good-bye letter, don't you think?<BR> I have the feeling that she is strongly embroiled in an affair with this man and she probably resents the fact that I told her I thought that he is a danger to her.<BR> How should I read her reacting this way? What do I do now? Do you think that her strong reaction means I struck a cord in her. Do you think her reaction is related to her affair? Is it a good sign or a bad one? Should I lay low for a while? I get the feeling this letter may have been more of a LB than a step in the right direction. Am I wrong? Is there anything positive I can take away from this? As I mentioned she responded very angrily to me but I get the feeling it's because she did read the letter, I'm not sure. Please help. I'm feeling very sad and discouraged right now.<P>------------------<BR>gdr

Nothing you say or do will make one bit of difference when she is in the midst of the affair. You can't make it better and it is even difficult to make it much worse (short of violence). Anything you say will be interpreted negatively. This is not about you, it is about her. "Neglecting" is just a vague excuse. If there were some real reason, you would not have been blindsided. <P>However, if you want custody of your child, you should definitely move back home.

Reverse the sexes & leave out having a child & its me. I told my H that the extreme stress from work was consuming him & I didnt want to hear it. He started talking to a woman at work instead who was becoming "our" friend outside of work. <P>We constantly argued. But it was at the point where he was saying we're not compatible and he needed space. Now he says whats done is done, its over & I have to let him go & sign the papers. I have been trying my best not to respond to his negative hurtful commentaries but sometimes it hurts so much I have to say something & we end up fighting still. It is a little less on my part, but still there. One minute asking my opinion, the next saying never mind its too late. <P>He also wants nothing to do with me. You see he's convinced that the changes I have tried to make are just pretending!! Ive been reading every library book I can get my hands on. They all seem to think that one partner changing their behaviour can make a difference in the others reactions. But I would say it can take a very very long time. For me it doesnt really seem to be working. We seem to be throwing that ping pong ball bavk n forth. I am beginning to think that my husband is severely depressed. And I know stress pushed him over the edge. He said he hates me as much as he hates a boss at work I am so tired of fighting this. He will NOT let me in even the tiniest bit. But the thing about people in such a depression is that their own self thoughts are not logical at all. Their thoughts are teh extreme emotional reactions from the surface & they are incabable of looking any deeper t stop & see the real source of the problem, or that it CAN be delat with. My H says its over, that we fight too much (havent fought the old way since I realized it made it worse & have bit my tongue alot). He says no one else fights in their marriage (gimme a break) & that people dont change.<P>Thank you for letting me vent. I feel like I wrote what you did. Maybe your wife is in as they say here "the fog". Maybe she thinks why cant you be like the other dude. But what our spouses cannot realize is that that is some fanasy world where you dont know the real person. That their problems will still be with them, even though we may not be.<BR>Decide what it is you really want. DOnt push her right now, she's not ready. Like many have said, I guess in the plan A you work on being the best person you can be for yourself, meanwhile making her feel safe around you, safe from disagreements etc. You will have a bit of an emotional rollercoaster ride ahead. Find what your safety belt is!<p>[This message has been edited by cantletgo (edited May 30, 2001).]

I'm going to plan B. This is something I should have done a long time ago. Plan A only drove her away more. That letter was a disaster! I hope it's not to late for plan B to be effective. I think my chances were better if I had done this sooner. At that time we were still on good terms and communicating and I felt she was wavering. Now she's on the verge of completely shutting me out of her life because I "keep insisting" that we try to make it work. Plan is a last resort and I hope it works to wake her up but my hopes are dimming.<P>------------------<BR>gdr