He just took #2 son to get car and truck washed at a fundraiser carwash. (OW runs the club sponsoring carwash.) I asked him not to go. I said I didn't want my children to see him talking to her. He said they are going to see me around all kinds of people. I said that I didn't want them to see him touching her. He rolled his eyes.<P>We had big discussion. I didn't yell, but did get emotional. <P>I said I just wanted an honest shot at working it out. He said "You keep saying that. But I don't want this {Marriage} anymore." So I said when are you leaving? And, when you go there can be no more contact between us.<P>He got angry and said why did it have to be that way. I said because it'll hurt me too much. You can't have both of us. We went back and forth. He said if I stay and can't see her I'm going to be mad and frustrated and you might as well put a gun to my head. I said I understand you will be angry, but if we go to counseling and do the work we can work through it. I said what if we do and it's better? What if you can learn to be independent within our marriage. (That's his thing...he never wanted to be married and he doesn't know who he is anymore. I have overwhelmed him.) <P>He ended with "You asked me to go to counseling; we start on Tuesday." I said, "do you expect it to be resolved with one visit?" He said, "you asked for 4 months. I'm doing that and the counseling." (I asked him to stay until the beginning of the next school year)<P>Then he left and took my son to the carwash where she will be. Cooing and saying "Oh you poor miserable baby." She calls him baby. Shouldn't that clue him in? She's going to be more manipulative than he ever thought I was. (Did I mention she is in marriage #4 at age 40? plus has had EMA's before?)<P>My sister called and said he has been abducted by aliens. I know someone else posts about WS being alien abductees...it is so true. Everything he has ever believed in is now changed. He said "I've done this heinous act, of course I cannot be the same. My values have had to have changed."<P>Meanwhile he continues to come home and we have short, brief times of normalcy. <P>Okay, here's the thing. I have continued to say "I love you." I have initiated sex (and he hasn't pushed me away or refused). He continues to sleep with me and hold me. It's gonna be hard...maybe even kill me...but should I stop? Or will he see that as capitulation, that I am finally giving up and giving in?<P>------------------<BR>See each day as a new beginning!<P>Cali

Hi Cali,<P>Wow, many of your H's statements were like what my H said and did. Yes, that strong need to be manipulated by the OW (they don't recognize it) but blame you for doing it to them is a common foglike thinking. Especially at the beginning (1st 4 months after d/d for me). <P>H claimed he wanted 'independance', said he did not want to be married. Yet OW was making plans to divorce and be married to H. Ow is divorcing her H and mine moved back home and cut off contact with OW. Our's is a stubborn one, she won't give up trying to pull H back. This is after 6 month since d/d and 9 months since their A started. <P>So, where do you go from here? Well you need to look at the options for plan a vs plan b. If you can talk with either Jennifer or Steve with or without H would be good. If your H is willing to listen to Steve, this would be good. We had 1 phone session but at the time, H felt he was NOT in the fog and that Steve was picking on him. Well H was the WS? I could not carry the title of BS without him being the WS first. DUH!!!! We even went to our local counselor and still no change. It had to come on H's on time but within my limit. <P>For us it has taken 6 months. We are in the 3rd week of his return. <P>Should you stop? I am not sure what you mean. Stop sleeping with your H? Is it a EA & PA with the OW? There are many other questions and I probably should do some research before asking redunant questions. I will do that and get back to you. In the meantime, take care and read. <P>Be glad your H is willing to go to counseling with you. For now that is a plus!!<P>L.<BR>

Is he having sex with OW? If so, please don't risk yourself and your children being exposed to a potentially deadly disease! It sounds to me like you need to review whether you are in plan a or plan b. Then read all you can on those topics and stick to them like glue. Keep us posted.

Thanks Orchid!<P>Well, he comes home. I pretty much ignore him except to answer his questions (to which "I don't know" is becoming a familiar phrase ).<P>I send him with son #1 to get birthday present for party tomorrow. He is shocked at how much a present and swim trunks are. (He was similarly shocked at how much groceries were when we shopped last week.) Guess I sheltered him way too much, huh!<P>I go upstairs and recolor my hair. Usually I agonize over a new color and ask him if he likes it. This time I don't even mention it to him. He volunteers that it looks nice. I say thanks. End of story. He gets curious look on face.<P>I have almost resolved to not hug and touch him so much. The not having him sleep with me will be hard. I will play it by ear. <P>Thanks for all the good posts and encouragement.<BR><P>------------------<BR>See each day as a new beginning!<P>Cali

Hi Cali,<P>I just got in and read your post. I did not mean you should not sleep with you H. That is none of my business. I just did not understand your question about stopping. Stopping what? <P>You sound in better spirits. It is nice he gave you a compliment. Yes, my H had a shock when he had to go get his own food. H told his BIL, you know I (H) have to pay for 'all' my own food and it's expensive. No DUH. Hmmmm who has been putting food on the table all these years? Tinker Bell?!?!?!? <P>Hang in there.<P>L.<BR>

<BR><B>I did not mean you should not sleep with you H. That is none of my business. I just did not understand your question about stopping. Stopping what? </B><P><BR>Everytime he goes into withdrawal from not seeing or talking to OW (takes about 24 hrs or so), he has to remind me that he doesn't want the marriage. This of course scares the pants of me and I still am working on not answering back. Though I do not yell or scream, he still sees what I say as LB.<P>One of the things he mentions is all my hugging, touching, calling him at work. He has alluded to the fact that he would rather be working on his script, but I "make" him come up to bed. Part 2 is that he hasn't resisted sex...but later will tell me it makes him uncomfortable.<P>I'm not sure the uncomfortable is because he still likes it with me and he feels guilt towards her...or I don't want to go there .<P>anyway, thanks for encouragement. I did get better. Read some good posts and sister called. Gained perspective. I see dr. and counselor this week and am looking into antidepressants. I can't stand all this crying. <P>------------------<BR>See each day as a new beginning!<P>Cali