I just talked to him. I told him pretty much what I said in my last post. He said, if you push me I'm going to go the other way, I can guarantee that. I said I pretty much figured that, this is not about getting you to make a choice, this is not about me controlling. I do not expect to hear you say that you want me. I'm just telling you that I have been hurting for a long time and I need to start healing. I don't think you're ready to start healing with me or helping me heal, so I have to do it on my own.<P>He said he's not abandoning me. I said that my feelings are not a priority, that we are not moving forward, in fact by contacting OW we are moving backwards and I can't do it anymore. He said he's going thru a lot of things down there. He's having a hard time. I told him I know and I am sorry. I want him to be happy, I care about him. He said it just felt like things were moving too fast, maybe they weren't, he didn't know. I agreed that things were moving too fast (we were talking about me moving there-HE brought it up). But that running is no longer an option for me. I have got to move from the place my life is right now, and I have to do it now.<P>He asked if he could think about what I said for a while & talk to me about it again in a while. I said ok. I will listen to what he has to say this one time, but I will not change my position.<P>I'm shaking. . it's awful. Love is not supposed to hurt like this. What do I do if he calls me back after thinking & says that he does not want to lose me & that he wants to start moving forward?

Bitsy,<P>If you want it to work out. I say go. You have to take that risk. BUT- make sure he understands there will be no contact with OW and that a no contact letter should be sent.<P>take care,<BR>cleo

Bitsy,<BR>I don't know your story but I wanted to send a hug your way... {{{{{{{{Bitsy}}}}}}}}}}<BR>I wish you the best of luck and encourage you to find your inner strength. Try to find time to pamper youself. I know that won't be easy. Have a good cry when you need to and reach out to friends or family for support. Please keep us posted.

bitsy,<P>Your situation is a tough one, because you keep hearing what you want to hear, but then the carpet is pulled out from under you some time later.<P>If he were to think for a bit and then say it is you he wants, my fear on that is how many times will he do this? Thinking for several hours or even a few days is dangerous, because he is so undecided. I'm not really saying anything specific here, just thinking out loud.<P>I would be thinking about a Plan B that is executed according to plan...ie, not a verbal statement like you made, but a letter explaining no contact unless he commits to you and sends a no contact letter to OW, etc. After all the stuff that happened, such as the bar scene with OW, it is ridiculous to be entertaining the idea of going to a party with her. It sounds like he needs wake up call, and if he doesn't wake up, then you'd eventually have to move on.<P>I always hesitate to say too much about Plan B, because it has been recommended to me, and I've not done it yet. Still on the horizon though. However, given the waffling, I think you might need to consider it. And it would be for you....so that you can prepare for life without him, and let him know about life without you.<P>I know that you have done a really good plan A, so you don't have to worry about that aspect of things.<P>We're pulling for you regardless of how you proceed with this. See what the others think.

cleo & BD-thanks for the support. This situation really is getting out of control though. What you're seeing right now IS me finding my inner strength, although I have to admit, it doesn't actually feel that great right now.<P>Rick,<BR>The way I feel right now is not even exactly a Plan B, atleast in not in the way I understand Plan B. To be used to save the remaining love the WS has, along with allowing the WS to prepare for the future & letting the BS see what it's like w/out us.<P>Right now I'm just thinking I have GOT to move forward. Right now. My entire life Rick (not just w/him), is just not working anymore & I've got to fix it. I love him still, I will allow myself to feel what I feel for him, how long that will last I don't know. I'm not trying to continue loving him right now, nor am I trying to stop. Whatever happens with my feelings will just happen. I'm just moving from the spot I am in. I do not think that he's ready to come with me, nor do I know if I'm ready to bring him along right now. I just don't know.<P>I agree w/you about him thinking for a few hours or days is probably not going to really make it hit home with him. He's having too much trouble with himself I think to really "get" all this other stuff. Sad. He really is not a bad guy. . I feel a sense of guilt for leaving him when I think that he really needs me the most, but. . how much am I really helping him anyway? To continue to allow him to remain in the same spot in HIS life while I'm just still, always here??<P>I don't know what to call this thing I'm doing, I don't know what I'm going to do or say if he calls me & says he wants to work it out. I was trying to take the "lostva" (my hero, btw) approach to all this before-no demands, letting him do in his own way, part of which is my Plan A, showing him I am not controlling anymore-but. . ."if" he says he wants to work. . .that's almost scarier (sp?) to me than it will be if he says he doesn't. What will I do if he, once again, decides (for the minute) that he doesn't want to lose me?<P>All the stuff he was talking before he got scared again-you should have heard him. . I want you, before you're not here anymore, etc., on & on. He freaking FELT that stuff, I watched him, our BF's watched him. . they said "his eyes, the way he looked at you, just like he used to be with you". I mean people used to be jelous (I swear I will never learn how to spell that word!) of us together. . they used to say, you guys can be across the room from each other & just make eye contact & it's just amazing what's there, in both of your eyes. Sorry. .off the subject there for a minute. . anyhow, about him FEELING that stuff. . the next thing I know, I'm hearing how he "feels like he HAS to do stuff like that to make me happy". Cop-out.<P>Yeah, and how about that spitting on her thing?? Geez. People are just amazing. . what they tell themselves (me included).<P>As far as me moving on. . all I really know right now is I'm moving. . where that U-Hall is taking me I'm not sure. It is taking me to somewhere that's safe for me & my girls though. I'll make sure I give you guys my new address though when I get it!!<P>Thanks for saying that I've done a good Plan A, cuz I haven't always felt really proud of myself about it. I know I've said this to you before, but you were the first reply to my first post, thanks.<P>Advice & thoughts from anyone???<BR>

Bitsy...first of all...hugs...<P>I can imagine how hurt you must feel right now. I wish that you didn't have to go through this.<P>When I read this update, one thing that makes a red flag go up for me, is when your SO says, "If you push me, I'm going to go the other way..."<P>With your great Plan A, and your SO still acting this way...waffling, wanting to still have contact with OW and making subtle threatening statement like that...it would be enough to convince me that he is definitely not ready to make any type of committment to anyone. Unfortunately, he sounds like a "cake man."<P>I think that you handled your situation well. I'm glad that you made the decision to move forward. You & your girls deserve so much more.

bitsy<P>You have to protect your girls. Bottom line. He is hurting not just you but them also. <P>

bitsy,<P>I know where you are at, and understand your frustration with this, and the fact that you don't know what to call this thing.<P>I haven't provided alot of updates lately about how I feel and what my plans are, just the odd thing about alien contact. Part of the reason is that I don't know exactly what it is that I want anymore either. I want my marriage, but I've also realized alot of things about my marriage and my wife, and there are alot of things that would have to change to make it work. I'm not saying I've given up, because I plan on a Plan B within two months. But I've had alot of time to reflect on what happened, and I know I can't simply offer a come back and we'll work on it. There is so much more to it. I'd have to write pages to describe it all.<P>Anyway, I'm rambling about that. I did want to reiterate that your Plan A was amazing. The balloons and surprises, and your approach of not pushing him, but letting him know that you love him ... you can't do anymore. Whatever you do as you go forward, you can know that you did a wonderful job of following the Harley principles and Plan A.<P>We all need a boost sometimes, and I'm touched by the fact that you remember me being the first reply to your first post. Thanks!

aka (can I call you that?? easier to type!!)-<P>Cake man?. . not him! Yea he is. He told me when we talked tonight, that where he is right now in his life (besides lost-my input) is he does not want to be told what to do. I said, I'm not telling you what to do. I'm just telling you what I'm going to do. I don't expect to gain anything with you by saying this.<P>And you're right about the commitment thing. He's not ready. It still is very sad to think about what we had, what we could have. . .this is hard.<P>Thank you to everyone for being here for me.<P>

Bitsy, your Plan A, truly has been amazing. No one can say that you didn't try your darndest. I just wish that your SO didn't have such a fogged up brain! I wish that he could open up his eyes and see the gem that he is giving up & about to lose.

Dear Bitsy,<BR>Thanks for posting to me, I knew I must add something to your thread. Over 20 years ago I had to make a decision about what was best for my children. (another marriage in the pits). The very best years of my life were spent with the love of my children, minus the obsession with my spouse. My children and I had seven wonderful years with each other(ups and downs understood.) Daughter still calls me her hero. These precious ones are good to focus on.<P> Your words:<BR>"...about him FEELING that stuff. . the next thing I know, I'm hearing how he "feels like he HAS to do stuff like that to make me happy". Cop-out.<P>I may be wrong in your case, but I am now realizing that my H will do and manipulate anything that relieves him of being thought ill of. He too is a "good man". H needs to do whatever makes him look good. My H has done the same things with me. But it is for HIM that he does it. <P>Guess, your not yet ready for a plan B, I certainly wasn't for a long time. Don't let it go to far or your love bank may become depleted. You will know when the time is right to "let him go". Do it then, not before, or you may not feel you did the right thing. I wasn't ready a few month ago when the wonderful people here suggested it was time. They were pretty close to right. I just needed a little more time.<P>Sometimes the responsibility for saving the marriage must shift to the WS. You have tried as much as humanly possible. To "let go" only means you have reached the point of saturation, not the point of no return.<P>Bless you dear, life holds much for you and the munchkins, don't sell yourself short.<P>(Sometimes wish my sense of humour would kick in again, another time issue, but not now)<P>You will be fine.<P> <BR>

whatami,<BR>Thanks for finding my post. Your words make me think.<P>The strange thing is, I don't even view what I'm doing as a Plan B. . this is not about me saving my love for him incase he wants to return, this is not about trying to show him what life will be like w/out me. What I am doing is standing up right now & taking control of my life, a life that is out of control right now (many other issues besides just him). I am not trying to make him see anything, I actually am fighting guilt for leaving him when I really, really think that he needs me. I know I keep saying this but, all I know right now is that I have to move. I would love for him to move with me. . I think he needs to move too, but I don't know if he's ready.<P>I guess all I know is. . I will wait to hear what he has to say to me, but if it is not about moving forward then he has to go. That is so painful. He honestly is a good man. . I have seen him. He has loved my D's as his own, he really has. He also has a son & I know that I do not feel for his son the way he has felt in the past about my daughters. I don't think I could care for anybody else's children the way I saw him care for mine. He's not feeling it now, or showing it now. . .but it is inside him. Right now, he is not doing anything that makes him look good to anybody. And he knows it. All of his freinds think he is making mistakes. I feel terrible b/c people think see how much he is messing up. I want to be able to stand behind him & still believe in him, but I just can't any longer. I can't b/c of me & I can't b/c of my girls. It's an awful situation to be in.<P>It's just so completely heartwrenching b/c I know what we could have. I just cannot wait any longer to start healing. I still am feeling this terrible guilt for leaving him.

Bitsy,<P>I'm proud of you for taking control of <B>your</B> life! I wish I had the courage and guts to take control of my life before the wedding. Based on what you are saying, this man will always pull you in then let you down - I'm married to his twin! <P>If he calls, hang up! Or better yet - get caller ID or screen all your calls with an answering machine. I always do great until I allow myself to hear my H - he's very smooth and I melt every time. <P>Good luck and God Bless!<P>