This is NOT going the way I thought it would. I really thought that when I told him yesterday that I had to move forward that he would take it as an ultimatum from me & be angry & just say go.<P>I don't know what I'm hoping will happen. I don't know what I want him to say. If he says he wants us, I'm not sure if he's really ready.<P>The other thing that makes me really sad is that I KNOW that someday he is going to wake up and this is all going to just smack him square in the face. He's going to want us back. I guess I can't concentrate on that though. I've got to start healing now.<P>I can say that if he decided he wants us, it will be different this time. Before I made no demands of him, just tried to be understanding & supportive, and let him figure it out on his own, in his own time. It won't be like that again. I will have some ground rules this time, which he's not going to like anyhow, b/c it will feel like controlling to him.<P>So for now. . .just waiting to see what his response is. Even though I'm not really sure what I want it to be.

Bitsy,<P>Like waiting for the novacaine to wear off. Yuck feeling. Numb and talking funny. Kind of how this waiting game is. Time can now be your enemy or friend. Put it to use as your friend. <P>Have you ever read the book Love must be tough by Dr. James Dobson? It is a good book. I picked up a copy at Barnes and Nobles for about $15.00. There was another book attached to it about: Straight Talk - What men should know and what women need to understand. <P>I have scanned a few chapters and found it helpful. It works well with plan B. You have got to be a bit more patient. This problem did not appear overnight and the fix may take longer. <P>Let me know how you are doing. <P><BR>L.

Orchid,<BR>It's not that I'm being impatient. . although I guess I am. It's just that when I made the decision that I was going to tell him that I needed to start healing. I really, really thought that it would be the end of it. I guess I had my mind set on I was moving on b/c the point he's at in his life right now is to be indepentant, to do for him, etc.<P>So, I did not expect for him to ask to think about what I said. (Why I continue to allow myself to be suprised only tells me what an idiot I am! LOL!). I did not expect to be thinking about possibly continuing to work on it. Plus I know what it's going to feel like (again) if he says no. I mean I KNOW that the problems he's having are totally about him only, but it's hard to not let this affect my self esteem, you know? Like if I was good enough, he would know that he didn't want to loose me, you know?<P>I have not read Tough Love, although I do know what the ideas of tough love are. . my ex H is a drug addict, so I've been thru all that stuff before. Co-dependency, Al-anon, etc.<P>I guess my impaitence is due to the fact that I am ready to move. . .and now I'm still stuck here waiting. My fault really. I am still allowing him to affect where I am. I guess it's just one last chance. I'm a very, very loyal person by nature (stayed w/my ex-H who was horrible for years b/c I did not want to give up on him). Unhealthy for me? I'm starting to think yes. Although I just dream of having someone feel about me what I feel about him. That would be the ultimate for me. .someone who would back me up thru anything. Someone who believes totally in me. Someone who loves me so much that they would go thru pain for me (not that I want to be the cause of anyone's pain), but I think you know what I mean. Like what you said to me about really knowing someone & loving them anyhow.<P>The other thing I'm finding myself having trouble with is I feel terrible that he's down there, probably hurting, trying to decide what to do. He just told me the other day (b/f all this OW stuff) that it's hard for him there, not knowing anybody, etc. But on the other hand, sometimes it takes pain to make you grow. I know for me this has changed me in many, many ways. I have grown personally. . nowhere near where I want to be yet, but I at least realize some of the changes I need to make and have been working on it.<P>I just struggle right now with my feelings. Anger, fear (of either answer he gives me), confusion, compassion, love for him, my own pain, the pain my girls will feel. My OD just asked me "why are you still on that MB thing if *** said he wants to marry you?". She's not stupid & I'm pretty sure she's already figured out there's problems again.<P>The whole thing still just sucks! I want to feel better.

Hi Bitsy,<P>Yes, our kids know a lot. We really can't fool ourselves in thinking we can hide our feelings from them. After all aren't they the ones that learn to manipulate us when they are only babies with a simple whimper? Hm.....<P>I sense your frustration. Just want it fixed and over with right? I got to the point I don't care which way you go H, just go do something so we can get on with our lives. <P>Ah... but H like sitting on the fence. In his own disfunctional mind, he felt he was keeping his options open. He would say he had '2' women who wanted him. Arrrgh, that made me mad. I refused to be one of the 2 women in his life. I told him, if I could not be #1, he needed to go and find someone else (he already had OW who was willing to pick a number - but I'll bet she'd force her way up to #1 ASAP). <P>So I fought that frustration up to the end of Feb this year. Then the 1st Sat in March (don't laugh - well snicker a little is ok), anyway I had a dream. Oh, not the Martin Luther King one, but good enough. It was about George Clooney. There was a post about it at that time. Anyway, that dream silly as it was, let me know that I was capable of being happy without H. It was possible for someone else to make me happy. The dream was not sexual just romatic, imtimate and nice. I woke up feeling good. So good in fact, I called H and said it was OK for him to go ahead with the D, please hurry up. around 7:30am, this message dazed H. I hung up and he immediately called back and wanted to know what happened. I did not tell him about the dream, just said I was ready for the D. OOOOOh, that ticked him off. He wanted to know if I was seeing or sleeping with someone. He was really confused. Hm.... <P>That started a 2 week breakup with H & OW. Then they got back together and then OW noticed I was just being too cool. OW warned H that I was being way to nice and he 'needed to protect himself from me'. I was too business like for OW and it bothered her that I was not being irritated by her stupidity anymore. YAHHHH!!!<P>The point is, is that I got to the level where I was ok with myself. I could go on and still can go on even now that H is home. In fact just this morning we were talking and H said, well I could leave tomorrow and I said me too. H looked puzzled and I said, I not only can leave but I can make it out there on my own if I chose. Hm..... he is still thinking about that one. <P>MB helped me stand on my feet. Yes, I always had it in me, I just needed someone to have confidence in me and help me see my potential. <P>Just me and my 2 cents again.<P>Take Care,<BR>L.

L-<BR>I remember reading about your dream. Funny how things affect people isn't it?<P>I just want to move (I KNOW I keep saying that-not even really sure what it means to ME right now). He just threw me for a total loop when he said he wanted to think. I can make it on my own . . I know that. I need to do what is healthy for me & my girls right now. I am & I will. I do feel strong right now. . .just not good.<P>I know you're feeling of being ok, w/yourself. I am too, I think, for me, it's still just the point of no return. . I fight to not get there. I can keep on being me. . .I have to be away from him if he's going to keep hurting. But I know how I work & I'm afraid to give up entirely. If I give up today. . and he comes tomorrow, it' too late.<P>I don't know. Still moving though. I've got to.

Hi bitsy - I don't have any specific advice, but I can follow your thoughts and I think you've got your head together. It may not feel like it to you, but you do. The next steps to take do not always jump out immediately and it's a sign that you're thinking rationally that you don't know what to do next. Continue being strong.<P>WAT