Hello Nyneve,<BR>What is wrong? You mentioned you were having a rough time.<BR>Anything we can do for support, good cheer, a shoulder to cry on, an ear to listen, a drink to share?<BR>(((((hugs))))) cl

I love you.<P>I'll talk later... just feeling blue... thank you SO MUCH for asking!!<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino

cl,<P>I just wanted to let you know that I will write tomorrow... and really, thank you again for caring.<P>(((((cl)))))<P>Sheryl

Hey Nyneve,<P>Can not get use to the new name. Try and do something that makes you feel better. I know when I am having a blue day I cuddle my cats and sing to them. Plus I make them dance for me...but let me tell you they would rather do with out the dancing. But the nasty looks they give me makes me laugh. I give them kisses and they forgive me.<P>

Hi Pahakissa1,<P>Sorry about the name . Yes, I have a sweetie-pie cat named Tess, and she doesn't like that dancin' either! <P>I love holding her, squeezing her, and kissing her... and you're right -- she makes me feel better. <P>So do you, hon! Thanks!! <BR><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino

Hi cl and Pahakissa,<P>If you're still hangin' about... here's what's happening with me:<P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum8/HTML/004384.html" TARGET=_blank>Link to my post today</A><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino

Read your post. No wonder I like you so much, I want everyone I know to be happy & don't like anyone to be mad at me.<P>Can I run away to you? the sad thing I wish i was kidding but someone here has to take a stand

Hi sing,<P>Oh sweetie, what's going on in your world tonight (or is it "this morning" where you are?).<P>Talk to me...<P>**edit** By the way, it's late here, and I have to go to bed... yawn... so tired... so will you please write your feelings down and I will respond tomorrow...<p>[This message has been edited by Nyneve (edited May 22, 2001).]

Hi Sheryl,<P>Sounds like you have the doubt monster hanging over your head. Honestly try not to let you beat yourself up like this. If you worry about your grown children that is fine. You will always be their mother. But trust me on this. They need to grow up and get on with their life. My Mom made me face the outcome of my actions. She stopped babing us when we started high school. We were expected to make our own decisions. If I decided to do something wrong and got arrested for it she would have left me in jail. Now mind you my family has the pull that I would have not even been charged. But the point being my family expected me to be responsable.<P>Now take Tony. His mother did and does everything for him. He can not manage anything. He can not even go back and get his change if the cashier shorted him. Really did his Mom do any favors for him? No because he is the most incapable person I know dealing with everyday life. He emotionally wipes me out. I can not deal with him because he expects too much. <P>You need to start changing the way you think. If you doubt your decision you need to change your self talk. If you find you beating yourself up mentally then make yourself say wonderful things about yourself. Nothing kills our esteem more than an affair. Now if someone had to face affair after affair on top of being co-dependent it is going to take time to get back your sense of self. <P>

<B>Pahakissa</B>,<P>Liked what you wrote to Sheryl, could have been written to me. <P>BTW I love your name & the meaning, I know it was cat related, I want to say Big Cat, you should only see mine.<P><B>Sheryl</B>, I am working on my new one but it messed up so I have to redo some things. I shouldn't type with out my glasses, I can't always read what I have typed. , <I>well that is my excuse & I am sticking to it.</I>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pahakissa1:<BR><B>Hi Sheryl,<P>Sounds like you have the doubt monster hanging over your head. Honestly try not to let you beat yourself up like this. <P>Nothing kills our esteem more than an affair. Now if someone had to face affair after affair on top of being co-dependent it is going to take time to get back your sense of self. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You know what the "bottom line" is? I can have 10 people tell me I'm doing the right things, and if one person (esp. one whom I respect) says I'm making a mistake, I freeze.<P>One of the reasons I changed my name was because I wanted a **new beginning** without having to explain myself all over the boards... and yet, here I am still having to do it... not for anyone else, FOR ME. What's up with that? <P>You are so right. I don't trust myself at all. <P>I have to say that being here, at MB, is a huge mistake (?) for me on many levels, but most importantly, because it is a constant reminder of my failed marriage -- and, frankly -- also a reminder of the choices I am now making that some vehemently disagree with. Yet, I remain here. Self-punishment? Maybe.<P>I'd like to think, as I've said only a zillion times, that I am helping someone out there. I have been told, both on the boards, and privately in email, that I am indeed helpful and offer compassion. That has always been my hope.<P>But... as someone so nicely pointed out... I am a bad example, and this person reserves special disguist to those who have made some of the choices I have. Can you imagine how reading that would make me feel? Here I am trying so hard (okay, pity parade on the way) to give love and help, and I am basically told that I deliver pain and hypocrasy instead.<P>**SIGH**<P>The sun is out today, and for that I am happy... I just got off the winter Zoloft (I have SAD) and things are beginning to look a bit brighter. I am going to see my kids in two days -- and lord knows I really need some hugs from my **babies** (old things that they are ). <P>Thank you for caring and for writing...<P>You are truly a tender spirit.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Nyneve (edited May 23, 2001).]

Nyneve,<P>I know that coming here is painful for you but I am so glad you do, you lift me up more days than you know. So glad that you will get to hug those babies in a few days. Have a good trip if I don't remember again. Enjoy yourself.

Sheryl:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>But... as someone so nicely pointed out... I am a bad example, and this person reserves special disgust to those who have made some of the choices I have. Can you imagine how reading that would make me feel? Here I am trying so hard (okay, pity parade on the way) to give love and help, and I am basically told that I deliver pain and hypocrasy instead.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm not sure that this is "just" the issue. You know that I don't "approve" of everything you've done. Not by a long shot. And I'm not going to get into discussions about your future plans unless you come begging... because I know that you do freeze. I think that everyone here (<B>everyone</B>)would like you to be successful with your family, and your future. I know that you'd love to get an MB concensus that you're doing the right thing---but that's simply not going to happen. And even if it did happen---it'd be no guarantee of future success. <P>Although I feel that you serve MarriageBuilder's very well (especially with this new-found ubb coding skills...), I'd suggest that you might personally be better off if you left for some time. Although there's a lot of support for you here, I think you end up giving more than you receive, and I'm not sure that you being "super-giver" isn't going to land you right back into the same situation(s) that you're trying to escape. Try to establish some balance. You've got other issues on your plate that you really need to give your full attention.<P>God bless you, Sheryl.

Thanks <B>sing</B>, and can I have your email? I'd like to write you when I get back, okay?<P>Hi <B>K</B>,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by K:<BR><B><BR> I'm not sure that this is "just" the issue. You know that I don't "approve" of everything you've done. Not by a long shot. And I'm not going to get into discussions about your future plans unless you come begging... because I know that you do freeze. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>Yes, I know how you feel, and aside from that one comment you made, you have been respectful and treated me with kindness. I appreciate that about you, very much. No begging here - I actually think I read you pretty well, don't you?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I think that everyone here </B>(<B>everyone</B>)<B>would like you to be successful with your family, and your future. I know that you'd love to get an MB concensus that you're doing the right thing---but that's simply not going to happen. And even if it did happen---it'd be no guarantee of future success. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't agree about <B>everyone</B> but I do believe that you do. <P>I do agree that I will never, ever get a concensus. I said something to Truthseeker on the EN board, and I'd like to reitterate it (not exact words, but in sentiment) with you:<P>I knew when I came back here that I'd be slammed. I wanted to be punished. I don't know if you can understand that - really - but I have my own demons to wrestle with, you know. <P>Do you remember F (you know who I mean) talking about "it's all in the details"? There were so many details that were swirling around and nobody except "us" (including David) knew them. There are still many, many details, and I'm sure you realize that now. This was never easy, or just tossed about like it meant nothing. All I can tell you is that a series of events happened, I got caught up in it all, and I ended up in this situation. I do not place "blame" on anyone but myself for ending up here. But just as there are no excuses, but reasons, for an affair, there were reasons (details) that led me to this place in my life.<P>I did not tell you that for you to say "poor Sheryl" or anything like that. But I have always cared what you thought - ALWAYS - yet, I also always felt that there was something within my personality that made it difficult for you to truly understand me. I was not, and am not, someone who plans to deceive - ever. I just want you to understand that.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Although I feel that you serve MarriageBuilder's very well (especially with this new-found ubb coding skills...), I'd suggest that you might personally be better off if you left for some time. Although there's a lot of support for you here, I think you end up giving more than you receive, and I'm not sure that you being "super-giver" isn't going to land you right back into the same situation(s) that you're trying to escape. Try to establish some balance. You've got other issues on your plate that you really need to give your full attention.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>This is the kind of <B>K</B>-advice that makes you the super man that you are! I am seriously thinking about leaving... and I promise not to write a "goodbye" message! <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>God bless you, Sheryl.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You too <B>K</B>. You are a very good man, you know.<P>

Sheryl;<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>But I have always cared what you thought - ALWAYS - yet, I also always felt that there was something within my personality that made it difficult for you to truly understand me. I was not, and am not, someone who plans to deceive - ever. I just want you to understand that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, I'm not sure that I <I>truly</I> understand you (or anyone else on this Earth, but I do understand that you never intentionally set out to do "what happened". I also know that you broke a good half-dozen "K rules" in doing "what happened"---and that's why they're K rules... (well, they're really Steve rules...) You remember when I got "angry" with you---it was more due to a frustration on my part that this little scenario played out EXACTLY as I had feared, when F's H came on board. You're right in that I've only got the 50,000 foot view; but that view lead me to fear for exactly what's happened (that I know about).<P>You used some imagry that Steve used with me often: when things are "swirling around"---often the best thing to do is NOTHING (I think I've heard that before ). It's good advice. Let the dust settle, get a clear picture---then make decisions.<P>God bless, Sheryl. I won't look for a goodbye, but we'll miss you if you take off. I'm going to be leaving too, for a little sabbatical (and a real vacation). <BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by K:<BR><B>You remember when I got "angry" with you---it was more due to a frustration on my part that this little scenario played out EXACTLY as I had feared...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>I have to ask... how is it that you could see this playing out like it did? I DID NOT see it AT ALL. I suppose you've gone back and read posts from back then? I have too... and I didn't see it, I swear, I didn't see it. <P>And, dear K, you really and truly don't have to answer, because I know that in doing so you'll have to possibly share details that will identify. If you can tell me without doing that, please do. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I'm going to be leaving too, for a little sabbatical (and a real vacation). </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Have a wonderful vacation, and a much needed sabbatical.

Sheryl:<P>It's really quite simple. You got involved at a personal (email) level trying to help out a marriage. Goes against the rules:<P>1. No email contact between members---keep everything on the board (I rarely violate this)<P>2. Never discuss marital problems with members of the opposite sex (giving or receiving)<P>With F's "meltdown" of realizing that she and her H couldn't possibly make it with their past (and with her convenient <I>and I met this really nice (solemate) on the internet...</I>), I could see F's H drop to desperation (and frustration) in regards to this turn of events. He made the (IMO) mistake of running away. You were still in contact with him. You've put two very vulnerable, very needy people of the opposite sex in contact concerning intimate marital problems.<P>It's that ol' recipe for disaster. It doesn't come true everytime, but it did in this case.<P>That's my 50,000 foot view. I don't think I've identified anyone too clearly here, but if you want, I'll delete this post after you read it.<p>[This message has been edited by K (edited May 23, 2001).]

No need to delete it. I guess it doesn't really matter all THAT much at this juncture anyhow.<P>The 50,000 ft. view does miss some of the details, true enough...<P>... but you are right about the email. I am extreemly careful now, and it is as a direct result of that situation. You are absolutely right about that. I do not have private email accounts now - I share all codes and passwords so that nothing is secret. I FULLY believe I made a grave error in that. <nodding head in agreement with you><P>I really got the idea that you felt something was amiss before that though, which is why I asked. <P>

No---I didn't think that you were <I>intentionally</I> setting off in that direction. But affairs rarely start off as intentional events. You were just very needy, and you were putting yourself into a very "dangerous" situation with a very needy and emotionally hurt man.<P>And you're right---the details aren't there. But sometimes I really think that the details aren't all that important---it's the broad scope of things that is the major issue.<P>On the email---it's not just that it can be secret, but (IMO) it's pretty inappropriate to be emailing members of this site to discuss marital issues. It's really taking a public forum and putting in the context of a counselor/client relationship. I have talked with a few "old-timers" via email, but that's really been very infrequent. It's much safer to debate these things out in the open---unless you happen to be a professional counselor who knows what you're doing.<P>I'm not. I just play one on the internet...

K,<P>You know though, I've talked to more than a few men from here, and yes, we've touched on marital issues (DeWayne and WilliamJ come to mind) and in both those cases, our spouses were briefly involved too. (Bill talked to David and I talked to DeWayne's wife.) Nothing inappropriate EVER EVER happened, and I found it helpful, honestly. So, I do think it's *possible*... it just so happened, in *this* situation, that it went (for lack of a better phrase) too far.<P>I will say that in the *spirit* of honesty (at the time) all parties were aware of the emails, and they were not at all secret... and that is a detail, and you're right, it doesn't really matter now. <P>"What happened" was not destined to be, and I know you agree. In hindsight, mistakes were made all over the place, of course. I sure won't try to convince you otherwise.<P>Thank you for taking the time to explain. It is appreciated, honestly.<P>**I hope to God this discourse helps somebody, because it's sure hard to go over this again. <P>