I confess. I snooped in my H's e-mail. <P>I'm glad I did.<P>I found out that he had signed up for an Internet service from onebox.com, which allows you to get voicemail, email, and faxes over the web. Of course, he didn't tell me about his private "account." (I know his telephone number and extension, though).<P>What do I do? Confront him on this? Keep quiet? I want to know why he needs to have secret voicemail and a secret email account!<P>Why do "services" like this have to exist, anyway? Don't the people who set these things up realize that they're used primarily for ONE THING?<P>Grrrrr....!<P>belld

AMEN AMEN AMEN, SISTER!!!!!<P>I was thinking the same thing when I got my our credit card bill last summer and took it upon myself to cancel his account with cybernet ventures. I asked the billing agent who answered the phone what the strange little charges were for, and the poor guy seemed embarassed to tell me. "Well, ma'am, (hem, haw) we provide access to various porn sites." He didn't bother to ask who I was and what I was doing cancelling the account--I am pretty sure he knew the routine: Angry wife of Porn Addict calls in a rage. Don't ask, don't tell.<P>My husband got smart--he put an encoded "lock" on his "private file." I am not smart enought to bust into them. And he has a jillion e-mail accounts--I have access to none. This is what is making me crazy.<P>Part of Surviving an Affair is sharing your personal information in order to rebuild trust. Granted, many of us are working on our marriages alone. So how do we trust spouses that do not hold to the honesty factor, those of us that are doing this?

<p>[This message has been edited by jdmac1 (edited August 04, 2001).]

I guess ya know I had to chime in on this one since I struggled with the same thing for years until I filed and I said I had enough of the games... snooping got me nowhere, head games gets nowhere,, they think it is a game and they have the right to this privacy regardless of how the other person feels about it..... It is just a way for the WS to continue their activity and I for one will never go this route again,,, <BR>My H and I have found out the hard way how much we do care and how destructive and mean we could be to each other,,, the internet and other methods of deceiving are as addictive as any affair and I for one am glad that I stood up and said I had enough,,, it was the only way for us to start again and rebuild..<BR>I pray for all of you struggling with this and hope that the spouse playing this type of game realize the damage it causes..<BR>you are all in my prayers..<BR>C1

Concerned,<P>How do you ever believe them, though, when they say, "I don't have any secret email accounts," when in the past you *know* that they have? It's easy to set up a secret email account. Too easy. A secret email account, once discovered, can be closed and easily re-opened. Similarly, I could approach my H about this onebox.com place, and he might close the account. But that would do nothing to prevent him from opening another account someplace else. H is very much into his privacy, and it is troublesome. I never realized just how much he hid things from me until his involvement with the XOW. I never knew that people would go to such extremes to "hide" aspects of themselves that should be open to their spouse.<P>I'm too afraid to approach him on this onebox.com issue, because I know that once I do, he'll only go to more extreme measures to hide things from me. I will say one thing: his method of concealing his activities are very, very shrewd. I don't have anything to hide, but I imagine if I did, even I wouldn't be able to come up with some of this stuff!<P>belld

I won't be so naive as to say that I blame the internet for H's actions.. but it sure as h*ll didn't help any! After all, that's where he's met all of his new 'friends'.<P>Should H and I begin the true process of reconciliation, I do believe that one of the main issues that will be addressed is the internet. Should he move back here, I personally think it would be a good idea that we not have internet access, at least not for a few months.<P>The only compromise I can think of, would be to have limited time online each day, and to have each other watch what the other is doing while online. But that is also quite extreme.<P>I haven't mentioned any of this to H. And it will not come up unless he moves back home. I don't think there's any need to discuss it right now, b/c it would only be a really warped LB. And I've done enough of those to last a lifetime lately! (sigh!).<P>But yes, the internet does offer far too much privacy. They say it's for 'security' reasons. HUMPH!! But at what cost?<P>Karen<BR>

<BR><<<Why do "services" like this have to exist, anyway? Don't the people who set these things up realize that they're used primarily for ONE THING?>>><P>Yeah, I remember when I encouraged H to get a cell phone in case of an ememrgency. Little did I know that I had just gone with him to get what would become his number one "tool" to contact his secret "friend". Every time I see that thing I want to smash it on the ground. As far as the email account - Can you hack it? I would. If not then I would confront him and ask why he has it. I still check H's cell phone sometimes. Most recently I found myself hanging up on the guy who prepared our taxes lol.

Karen & others,<P>I am very conflicted about the issue of the Internet. On one hand, anonymity on the Internet allows us to post on sites like these without being identified, for practical purposes. It allows us to send and receive mail to fellow BS's and network among ourselves. <P>But it also allows WS to make "friends" that they, um, should not be making. It allows them access to all kinds of private email services that cannot be traced. <P>Sometimes I wish that every single Internet user would have to have an encoded i.d., sort of like a Social Security number, that identifies the user. And if you have that number, you'd be able to look up and see what hotmail accounts and other web-based services like this onebox site offers that one's spouse has. It would also allow people who threaten over the 'net to be located with dispatch, instead of through an ISP. Essentially, to get any kind of hotmail account, you would *have* to apply with a registered name and number.<P>What does everyone think?<P>belld

Bell <P>I was so there for so long and tried everything except legally making my boundries until February of this year... it was a tough decision,,, I would like to say that I did plan A during the time that we struggled with the internet stuff... but I cant say that I was a helpful... instead I made matters worse by trying to "straighten him out" this is one of the major LBs as you might well know... no I was a domineering crazy jealous fool who thought I was better than him and totally messed things up worse... I also had an EA that clouded my thinking.... <BR>how do we trust each other now? I am still scared sometimes and I know how easy it would be for him to have other accounts and I could easily pick up that phone and make one call to my ex-friend... why are we both controlling this destructive behavior? because we have started over again and we have promised to protect each other again.... we went to MB seminar this weekend and we are starting our homework.. meanwhile I make it a point every day to take his feelings into consideration and not hurt him and I trust he is doing the same.... only time will tell if we will be successful in overcoming all of this. <BR>C1

bell,<P>you know that there are legitimate uses for services like onebox right?<P>i am sorry about the hididng stuff, i know my wife worries about that my just being on-line bothers her, had a good chance to be real open and sharing last night around the internet, was on chatting with my sister and she came home while i was on, she came in and over the sholdered me and i just started including her in the chat. she relaxed a bunch in that i wasnt closing windows and acting all wierd about her being there. trying very hard to be as honest as possible, not makeing decisions about what should or shouldnt be disclosed, if she is not interested i let her say so i dont assume its not her business anymore<P>

chaz,<P>Yes, I know that there are legitimate uses for onebox services. However, why does my H need them? He already has a work email account and yahoo account. He has a cell phone. He has no need to receive faxes. We also have our home telephone, where he could pick up his voicemail at anytime. I'm not sure if he has a pager anymore, I don't think so. He has plenty of ways in which people can get in touch with him.<P>It's not the issue of him having the account. It's the issue of him getting it and not telling me. Particularly given the circumstances. If a friend told me that she'd discovered something like this about her H and gave me the same circumstances, I'd tell her, "Sounds like he's trying to hide something. Like an EMR." <P>Just being honest. That's the way it appears to me. Otherwise, he would not hide it.<P>belld

Bell... I think it all goes back to the Policy of Joing Agreement on this and any issue where either spouse is uncomfortable.... do you and your H have a policy of Joint Agreement? if you do not talk with him about that and see where you go from there... after the seminar this weekend I realized that without a policy of joint agreement most couples do their own thing at one time or another and that is ok,,, but if you do something that does not have the other persons "enthusiastic" agreement,,, then dont do it! He should not have email boxes which you do not have an enthusiastic agreement to. If he says that it is to keep some privacy I fear that this is FOG talk and needs to be addressed through reading the SA book... are you Plan Aing with him ? <BR>C1

Concerned,<P>My H would no more enter a policy of joint agreement than he would cut off his privates! There are certain things he will do ANYTHING to protect - and his "privacy" is one of them. He gets all of his calls on his cell phone. He has a private mail box. And now I find out about this secret account. Heaven knows how many others there are. I don't think that he is having an active EMR, however, I think that he is arranging his life so that if the possibility ever becomes available (again), he will have a way to correspond with his lover(s) in a way where I am guaranteed not to find out.<P>This could be all my imagination. But whenever I have asked him to give up his "privacy," he has become very vitriolic and almost abusive to me - as though what I'm asking is unreasonable.<P>Now do you see why mentioning a joint policy of agreement is impossible? I can't even get him into counseling, nor will he read the books Dr. Harley mailed to us. It's on HIS terms only. And it really bites. I don't know how much longer I can take it ...<P>belld

Yes I too understand what you are saying since I didnt always LB when I asked him to stop,,, I pleaded and sometimes I asked nicely and said things like "this hurts my feelings and I do not want to live with someone who does not care about how I feel" I still do not know or understand why it was so hard for him to understand that this was a violation of trust and unfortunately I resorted to severe measures to draw the line... I am not sure that this was the best way but I too had said lets go to counceling and all that other jazz to no avail. I know from thinking and talking with him this past weekend,, I too was showing him other forms of LB, and we are still learning how to deal with the aftermath of a very destructive pattern in our relationship. Seems that at some point you have to get to plan B,,, my plan B was calling a lawyer. I still hurt when I think about what went on that weekend,,, and all I know is that he and I are truly repentful for the pain we have caused each other.<BR>would a telephone consultation with the Harleys be out of the question for you at this time? you are right that he is leaving that door slightly ajar and they might be able to tell you how to handle this diplomatically without LB as I did. <BR>Praying for you Bell<BR>C1

It's not only the internet. It's everything, pagers, cell phones... theres no defense. I believe if their got something to hide, if their going to cheat, they will find away. I am being put through the fire again with my wifes second affair (read my posts) and I think the only thing she learned from the first was new ways to cheat and lie on this one! There just is really no defense.<BR>Hopefully everything will turn out right for you!<P>Good Luck!<P>Jim S<BR>

Jim,<P>You are definitely right. They just get sneakier and sneakier and find better "walls" to put up against their beloved "privacy." When I first married my H, he was nothing like this. Everything was shared between us for the most part. Now I don't even know how much money he makes or where it goes. And this is 50% MY money! I account to him for every penny I spend. Why must things be so inequitable?<P>belldandy

well people cheated in biblical time, no internet then, this is nothing new. i wish i had something to offer.<P>thanks for reminding me why it is so important to be honest and open.<P>

Hi Belldandy and gang,<P>Oh the great and grand internet. Like all communication devices they have benefit and can bring great grief. <P>Bottomline is that there is a number of ways to be bad if you really want to. When that happens are all bets off on trust? You do what you need to do to get it. If you need to know if you are being cheated or lied to then that is what you do. <P>I explained it to H like me being kept in the dark with their secret meetings, e-mails, voicemails, coded messages, etc. Here I was walking in a pitch black room with obstacles all around me, carrying my child in front of me. Stumbling over these large obstacles (H's anger towards me, accused of being a bad wife and mother and using H as a money machine, accused of having an affair with MIL, being violent, H claiming he never loved me and was never in-love with me, etc.). When I would stumble, loose my balance and fall, who would get hurt first? My child. How could I protect him if I could not see these obstacles? <P>Ah... then I uncovered the reason. Hm.... an OW. Willing and ready to fuel H's excuses to go and have a fling. Oh, she was ready to make whatever H had to say much worse and he believed it. When I listened on his voicemail and looked in the computer on the temp internet file and found the e-mails he opened there, then I saw my obstacles. Now I had something to work with. Now I needed to protect my needs and that of our child. <P>The obstacles were still there but now, they were EXPOSED!!!!! I could see what I was dealing with. No longer could they hide. They were exposed. OW did not like it but tooo bad. If she and H chose each other then they will live with the consequences. <P>Use of snooping devices are ok when needed. Who determines the need is the injuried mate. If the offending mate is offended. Good, they deserve to be snooped on. Keep them on edge. WS & OPs want to play???? Ok. Let's play but by my rules. <P>L. <BR>

Orchid I understand the need to know.... but how long do you want to play the game? and while you think you are playing by your rules they are adapting to them... I am sorry but I learned the hard way after playing games and snooping and all that crap that it wasnt worth it and I quit the game and filed... I wish I had known how to Plan A and I wish I had known how to not LB,,, I wish I had known how to find the real cause for our distance,, I wish I wish I wish... but certainly I would not go back to playing games as I did for 7 years...... if I had to redo the last 7 years I would have learned to change myself and be more loving and not so critical, I would learn to not LB and fill his love tank... I would make it safe for him to tell me the truth by telling the truth myself... oh how I would change all that and save us a bunch of hurt... but playing only makes them bigger players <BR>ok,, guess that about wrapes it up for me...<BR>good luck Bell... and blessings to you all.<BR>C1<p>[This message has been edited by Concerned1 (edited May 23, 2001).]

Sepctorsoft.com will give you access to websites, emails and passwords as typed. Do you want to go there?<P>My experience is : at least I know what is going on and how I handle it is in my purview, not just his. Confronted my H after a few months of reading all the tripe. (had a legitimate access reason why I was easily able to acess) H was dumbfounded and humilited and whatever it is when all that conversation is being read be the W that you pledged to love, honor and cherish ... Almost forgot the fog thing. H wrote that he was so sorry for subjecting her(OW) to having her emails read. My heart goes out to the homewrecker. HA!<P>The hurt and pain are tremndous but the resolve comes more swiftly. For me, anyway. At least the volumes of emails and love notes subsided. However, it was on to the cell phone. At least the spoken word can not be read and reread. H justifies his everything, secret credit card, change of cell number, vanishing weekends, etc. <P>YES, you should know all that you can. It hurts, but at least you are not a mushroom... kept in the dark and fed sh*t. I know they are in a fog and all that is said and written by them is precise yet foggy. <P>I often wonder if this A would have ended long ago if I had not confronted him with the knowledge. I doubt it. He may just have used me up and then dropped the bomb. <P>My idol has feet of clay. I needed to know that for my recovery ( also needed to know that for my finances. Seems OW was planning some big things with our money.) Pain of the A could not be any worse, so why not.<P>Helpped for me to develop a plan. That's my HO. A continues for H and OW, fire has subsided. Me ... fed up.<P>Vengence is the Lord's. Thank God. He will handle it better than I ever could. (Sense of humour should kick in again shortly.<P>God love you all (I know he does)<BR>