[QUOTE]Originally posted by SeenTheLight:<BR>[B]Fairy Dust:<P>Never say NEVER. The Fates are fickle and perverse. I use to think that myself, particularly having been a BS myself<P>ANYONE, given the proper circumstances, can be an OP or a WS.>>>> <P>I see what you are saying STL but I still can't agree. I was in a long term live in relationship previous to my marriage. Towards the end it was awful, he treated me horribly, the very thought of him made me ill, we lived totally seperate lives. By that point in time I had already told him we were living as roommates for afew months until certain things were sorted out and I could leave. There was a guy I knew who was everything I could have asked for and he made no secret of his interest and yes, I was definitely intersted too. But I still felt like it would be cheating even though I wasn't even married, I was completely miserable and it was clear that the relationship was over. I still didn't do it. When my H abandoned me and exBF contacted me. This was someone I'd known since childhood and had always had a connection to. I was at my lowest. Devastated, lonely, the weakest point I have ever been in. Still didn't do it. As far as being an OP, as I have stated before an extremely attractive MM automatically turns into a slimy troll before my eyes if he makes a move on me. I don't find slimy trolls appealing. So IMO my only circumstance for being a WS/OP would be if I had a serious mental illness. Other than that, I still can't agree. I will even go as far to say MOST people.. but not all.

Sorry, hit enter key to quick...<p>[This message has been edited by BrokenDreamsX (edited May 31, 2001).]

I've learned to never say never. I hold similar views as fairydust in regard to the possibility of having an affair. I don't believe I could do it. I also had flirtations when younger that turned to disgust if it went over the line of a flirtation. I do believe there are a few of us out there who are hard wired not to commit adultery, but I have learned to never say never. <BR>I agree with Belldandy that this woman has learned to be a victim and as such she has chosen to justify victimizing others. It is so sad because her growth as a person will be stunted until she allows herself to feel the pain she has caused others. <BR>Roger, I'm curious as to why you are having an inapropriate conversation with a MW??

Good question to Roger BrokenDreamsX. Now that you mention it there's something about this thread that has been really bothering me... and I think that's part of it. <P>Z

Hi BrokenDreamsX and zorweb,<P>Sorry I didn't explain myself. My wife had an affair in December and I just could not understand why she did this because we were supposed to be madly in love. So I confided in a lady friend that I have known for a few years. She is from the Orient. At one time was going to start up a business with her so I got to know her very well but never in person. This lady has told me many personal things because she wanted my opinion in the past on different marriage candidates. <P>Recently she has gotten married and is very happy now. Now I don't talk to her very much because she is married. But when I had my problems she was one of the few I could trust not to talk. This lady helped me to find my current wife so I am grateful to her. Her husband knows this.<P>For some reason, in order to explain things to me she talked more in depth about some of her bad experiences. I already knew about a few things but we never had reason to talk about this subject before. Anyway for some reason we trust each other. I am not having an ICQ affair or anything like that. The lady is in China and has never been here. I am totally happy with my marriage except for the one incident my wife did that I have to forget and she is happy with her marriage. I would never think of having an affair. I can see what affect it has on my and I would not want to do this to anyone. <BR> <BR>The lady's husband knows she talks to me on occasion to help me with personal problems but he doesn't know what my problem is. I talk to the husband sometimes too but not about my problems. Through this friend and through this group and through my wife's help (talking more now) I have been able to recover slowly and get back to a normal life. <P>Because this person was a long time friend I didn't just decide to not talk to her anymore after she told me some of her personal things. She told me personal things because she was trying to help me. Because I know her, I do not consider her as a bad person. Also she told me in China it is different from here. So I did not judge her in the same way I would have judged someone here. I have heard many stories about China through my friends there and from my wife. I don't understand their society still but I think it is different and the thinking is different. <P>For example one Chinese lady friend said she wanted to work. If her husband did not agree she said she would work on the sneak and not let him know about it. The reason she wanted to work was to send money home to her mother. SInce her husband did not want her to work or to send money to her mother she thought to just get a job in secret earn money and send it to her mother. I told her that an American woman would never do such a thing because it is deceiving the husband. But she did not look at it as deception and I can't understand why not. So all I can say is that the thinking must be different. <P>This lady said that now when she looks back she see what she did and what the men did was very bad. She said at the time she never asked questions about the men's past or think about their wives. Through business dealings she got to know these people, they approached her, she liked them, they liked her and they became intimate. She was actually hoping for marriage a few times but it didn't work out so she broke off the relationships. She said she just didn't happen to meet any good single men that she liked. She people she met all were married. In one case the guy told her that he was single. Later she found out that the guy was supposedly happily married with two children. I don't know all the details but I think she is not 100% guilty. <P>Of course I still don't like some of the things she did but I can understand it a little. Some of these people deceived her and promised her things. After some of the affairs she became angry with the men. She said that most men just have sex on their minds. She said that's just the way it is over there. The wive's do not like the husbands to have a mistress but many especially those in power have a mistress. Well she was one of those mistresses. <P>The mistresses just don't feel bad about it and neither do the husbands who have a mistress. The wife's thinking is "At least I have a husband." She does not like it but puts up with it. Many times the guy goes through a phase and after that turns good. I think the 30's age is common and after that the 40's and 50's when the wife starts to get older and has less interest in sex. The wife sometimes accepts this as a valid excuse. It is foreign to my thinking. I am just trying to piece all these things together to understand about affairs.

fairydust, STL, et. al., <P>I feel as though I should qualify my statement about one being "tainted." There is always forgiveness. Forgiveness from God or one's higher power - or simply from oneself - cleanses the soul. It is possible for an OP, married or single, to cleanse themself completely and totally: it's called repentance.<P>If you do not have repentance, and if you are not truly sorry for what you have done, to yourself and to others, then you probably do not fare well in the eyes of God. Or other people. <P>My H had an EMR. He is very sorry for it and deeply regrets it, for all of the pain that it's caused our marriage. Similarly, I am very sorry for filing for divorce instead of insisting on counseling or "Plan B'ing" for a while. Asking for forgiveness is tantamount to receiving it. And in the process, becoming a "new" person - one who is better than the old.<P>I will also have to concur with fairydust about the whole EMR thing. Once a MM or SM makes a move on me, I am utterly repulsed. I mean, it takes a pretty big slimeball to hit on/be receptive to the advances of a MP. How can I possibly give them even an inkling of respect, much less think of their hands on my body? <P>For me, OP are a very big sexual turn-off!<P>belld

BellD, so glad that you clarified that statement that implied that once a person's life is colored with the sin of infidelity, that "something about the terrain is eternally tainted and one can never get that pristine quality back..."<P>I was beginning to wonder what the shed Blood of Christ was for then, if not for the remission of sin?<P>Yes, everyone's past is tainted with sin, and, perhaps some sins are more dignified than others, there is still only one place called Hell that was made for all sinners, regardless.<P>We never know what we will do with the right temptation. Perhaps you have not met that fork in the road of your life and when you do, you really don't know what you will do. My guess is that we would probably do much worse than we thought we could or would ever do. We can never get so proud that we believe we are above any sort of sin. Maybe we can trust ourselves, but we can never trust the enemy of our souls.<P>

<P><<<I feel as though I should qualify my statement about one being "tainted." There is always forgiveness. Forgiveness from God or one's higher power - or simply from oneself - cleanses the soul. It is possible for an OP, married or single, to cleanse themself completely and totally: it's called repentance.>>><P>I totally agree BD. I know my H is very sorry for what he did. My best friend was once a MW/OW and she couldn't be more sorry for everything she did and everyone she hurt (or would have hurt had it been discovered). That makes a big difference. But if I were single and met A guy who had once been an OM or a WS and didn't seem sorry (or tried to make excuses) I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole.