Hey all, I have been busy the last couple of days.<BR>Went on Celexa, an antidepressant. Have had a very noticeable difference. Think maybe it is too strong for me, but I feel almost like I've had a couple of drinks for the first 4-6 hours, then I feel pretty normal. I'll call dr. on Tues. to see if it's normal.<P>Some thoughts I am confused about.<P>As I've read posts about depression and mania and the like, I've compared them with H's actions and words. He has made a big shift in his value system. (says that's how he knows he's serious about OW.) Says he never really loved me and didn't want children. (though lately I've been remembering more about those early days to know that's not true (after 14 yrs. time gets blurred).<P>Also talks in lofty terms of how he needs to leave marriage so he can be better for everyone. How he is not 'great' and not a leader. He talks in grandiose terms of making lots of money making films and writing and such. Also wants to put together his own private school. (these are all the things I didn't listen to him about...I listened, but after a few years it does get old when they don't put any action behind it).<P>Sexually we went through a slump except for the last year. I noticed when I was cleaning our PC a bunch of Porn sites being cleaned from the temp. folder. Even since D-day we have been more active than usual...(I wonder how OW would feel about that?) He even let me touch him in the movie theater the other night...something I can't even imagine him having me do...(I was testing out my theory to see what he would do...he didn't push me away or tell me to stop as he would have.)<P>In the preview stuff he wrote for counselor he wrote about thoughts racing and his words not being able to keep up with his thoughts. He is restless and irritable. Even his interactions with the children is different. He is angrier with them. He doesn't seem to take as much joy out of the funny stuff they do.<P>What do you all think?<P>------------------<BR>See each day as a new beginning!<P>Cali

Dear Cali,<P>You description of your H is similar to mine. Did I mention that before? All those illogical ideas, thoughts and plans are spewing from their mouth at 100 mph. <P>How much more can you take? How serious are his words? Well, his words and current actions are not really his true personality. He has already admitted that he is not in control of his thoughts which are racing through his mind and what is coming out of his mouth is a bunch of garble. <P>It is evident by the way he has been treating his own flesh and blood. Some call it being taken over by aliens and other say something about a type 'moose brain worm' disease. It could also be due to the 'hoof and mouth' disease that the OP has.<P>Your part will depend on your personal strength. Since this is not the actions of the man you married, are willing to wait until that man comes back? I asked my H to please go and find my H and send him home and tell this other strange man posing as my H to please leave me alone. Guess what, they found him wandering the streets looking for a place to live (just joking). Seriously that is what it felt like. <P>Just sharing my thoughts. Hope the humor is not too offensive. Want you to smile a little today. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.<P>

And smile I did Orchid!<P>I guess while I keep seeing glimpses of my H, I can hang in there. <P>It is just so weird. Like today, we went car shopping. (Like were in the financial place where we can buy a new car.)<P>He's also talking about buying a house for his family. (Again, financially it is not in our near future.)<P>But since I've put the decision-making in his hands, my common answers are "What do you think dear?" or "I don't know, what do you want."<P><P>------------------<BR>See each day as a new beginning!<P>Cali

Cali- try not to take what your H says too seriously. My H actually announced we should sell our brand new 1 yr old home and buy something cheaper when he was in the fog- well we had just paid CASH for all our landscaping last yr and just got all settled in- I was thinking are you NUTS???? He also would say things like, "divorce wont hurt the kids' and "divorce will be BETTER for you!" and " I dont know if I can get my feelings back for you" and "I dont like spending time with you" and " I love you but I"m not IN love with you," Can you believe this type of talk about 15 yrs of marriage? CRAAZZYYY!!! etc all sorts of whacko things he never used to believe before the A.I think he actually believed what OW spouted off about in order to justify his A to himself in his own mind. You really should make a list like I did- now at 4 mo after fog started I can laugh at alot of the stupid ideas he was serious about then!lifeismessy PS He will come " BACK"if you are willing to wait

I've read all these posts and I want to believe, but he sounds so sure. He says he's felt this way from the first day we got married...he was never fully committed so he wasn't a good husband and father.<P>One of his emails to her even talked about her being his choice, his first decision.<P>His in serious withdrawal today. They've only been in contact through voicemail since Friday. I can hardly stand it. <P>------------------<BR>See each day as a new beginning!<P>Cali

If really sounds as if you WS has a bad case of the "IF ONLY"s:<P>If only I hadn't gotten married, I could have....<BR>If only I hadn't been burdened with children, I could have...<P>If only my wife listened to me, I would have...<BR>If only....If only...If only....bah, bah, bah<P>What a bunch of crap!!!! He's doing nothing but blaming you and his life for his failure. I don't know if his problem is depression, but some of this does sound bi-polar...like the racing thoughts and the grandiose ideas.<BR>And I'll bet that OW is playing right into this whole thing and taking advantage to extort her own cause. If he truly needs medical help then I expect that at some point he will turn on her when it doesn't work out to his advantage. Might not be before he has done irrepairable damage to your marriage though.<P>I think it's so sad when individuals cannot take responsiblity for their own faults and keep needing a scapegoat to make themselves feel better. I'm sorry, but I think you are just convenient. I think the only thing you can do with a person like this (if you cannot get him to accept medical help] is to try to reaffirm to them how there is no need for them to feel a failure. That in your eyes they are not a failure and never have been. You can bet that this is exactly what OW is telling him. Fight fire with fire so to speak. Make it so that he doesn't need to find affirmation of himself in someone else...because he finds it in you and his family.<P>Faye<P> <P><BR>

InShockinCali:<BR>I was taking Celexa, it does make you feel different as probably and drug will. I think it's more noticeable at first. It takes up to 30 days to build a level in your system for the full effects. They usually monitor the dosage up or down depending on the effects. Sometimes after enough time has elapsed to see how it's working for you and considering the effects, they may try other ones. I don't know that it helped me all that much, I think my problems are basically the situation as is. Hope it helps you. <P>I've heard a lot of the same things your H has said. Reading this appears to be standard for WS's are, many of "the lines" are the same. I had a hard time, until I figured it out the..."I love you, but I'm not in love with you". (Oh, passion). One time H blurted out I love her, the way he said it didn't sound convincing, I think it was for my benefit. Than I explained to him there is a different between LOVE and LUST...and what he had for her was LUST. I even put it in terms he could understand more easily. I told him it was something new, exciting, different. H didn't have any come back on that one. <P> RE: He has made a big shift in his value systems.<P>No doubt my H has, it's unreal and completely the opposite of what H was with me. It's like he just doesn't care. So when it's said "they will give up everything" this has been the my H's case and he has become a different person. <P> RE: As I've read posts about depression and mania and the like, I've compared them with H's actions and words. Says he never really loved me and didn't want children. (though lately I've been remembering more about those early days to know that's not true (after 14 yrs. time gets blurred).<P>I heard something similar, maybe I never loved you. Your right remembering the early days. I can remember H saying I knew I'd be with you the first time I saw you, it was fate, we were meant to be together. H even sat in front of me on the phone with his mother several times and told her I am love her so much, I've never had anything even close to this, I've never been so happy in all my life as I am now, I want to spend the rest of my life with her. Gee, wonder if H is telling OW the same things now? (Yuk, horrible thought!) <BR> <BR> RE: Also talks in lofty terms of how he needs to leave marriage so he can be better for everyone. <P>This one gets me, I got the it's not fair to either one of us to continue this marriage. What's fair about living in adultery with OW, dumping your W and everything? (Duh)<BR> <BR> RE: He talks in grandiose terms of making lots of money making films and writing and such. He is restless and irritable. Porn sites..thoughts racing and his words not being able to keep up with his thoughts. <P>This brings to mind some similarities with my H. I thought he's lost his mind. I got into reading information on Bipolar Disorders...it was so weird, ironic that a lot of the symptoms fit. <BR>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>This was in one and many of the sites, Bipolar Disorder involves cycles of mania & depression. <P>Some signs & symptoms of Mania: <BR> Increased energy, activity, restlessness, racing thoughts, and rapid talking <BR> Excessive "high" or euphoric feelings <BR> Extreme irritability and distractibility <BR> Unrealistic beliefs in one's abilities and powers <BR> Uncharacteristically poor judgment <BR>A sustained period of behavior that is different from usual <BR>Denial that anything is wrong <P>Some signs and symptoms of depression: <BR>Persistent sad, anxious, or empty mood <BR>Feelings of hopelessness or pessimism <BR>Feelings of guilt, worthlessness, or helplessness <BR>Loss of interest or pleasure in ordinary activities, Decreased energy, a feeling of fatigue or of being "slowed down" <BR>Difficulty concentrating, remembering, making decisions <BR>Restlessness or irritability <BR>Sleep disturbances <P>There are different states and moods. One patients description: <BR> At first when I'm high, it's tremendous...ideas are fast,like shooting stars you follow until brighter ones appear...all shyness disappears, the right words and gestures are suddenly there...uninteresting people, things, become intensely interesting. <B>Sensuality is pervasive, the desire to seduce and be seduced is irresistible.</B> Your marrow is infused with unbelievable feelings of ease, power, well-being, omnipotence, euphoria...you can do<BR>anything...but, somewhere this changes. <P>I thought the "sensuality" was possibly where the A comes in? <P>Another patient wrote: <BR>The fast ideas become too fast and there are far too many...overwhelming confusion replaces clarity...you stop keeping up with it--memory goes. Infectious humor ceases to<BR>amuse. Your friends become frightened...everything is now against the grain...you are irritable, angry, frightened, uncontrollable, and trapped. <BR>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<P>Orchid: <P> RE: You description of your H is similar to mine. Did I mention that before? All those illogical ideas, thoughts and plans are spewing from their mouth at 100 mph. <P>racing thoughts, and rapid talking?<P>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<P>I don't know I'm not a psychiatrists, but I found this very interesting. I had also read somewhere (I can't find it again, but still looking) something to the effect that when they do the infidelity they become bipolar? <P>What do you think? I know my H seemed to fit. Dr. told me it was a good possibility with H. <BR> <BR>

The behavior you describe in your H is very typical of depression in men. It is also very typical of the thoughts they experience in MLC. <P>Is there any chance you might be able to persuade him to try meds? My own H was adamant that he wasn't depressed. I knew he was and had been telling him for at least 2 years before d-day that he needed to see someone. Men associate depression with crying and not being able to get out of bed and they usually don't experience those sypmptoms in the more mild-moderate forms of depression. It's those "what if" thoughts, feeling that they are missing something in their life, that they made the wrong choices, that they are not "moving ahead" in life like they dreamed of. They get irritable and mean and nasty and lash out at those closest to them and place the blame for how they feel on us as a coping mechanism.<P>My H felt quite miserable but would not admit he needed meds. So, as a nurse and knowing the side effects to be quite mild I asked H if he would take a prescription of mine that I was no longer taking (the Dr. had changed my rx). He agreed,(because then he wouldn't have to go ask for it)and felt a difference in 3-4 days. Those racing thoughts stopped and he was able to think clearer and more positively. he could once again see the glass as half full rather than half empty.<P>The side effects you are experiencing are normal in the first 2-3 weeks of therapy. Your body needs time to adjust. if they continue after the first few weeks you may need a different dose. Hang in there Cali!

Thanks buffy, hurtwife & mthrr,<P>I really appreciate the support and advice. We split our counseling sessions up this week; I probably will mention the personality and value changes I have seen in him as well as the way he is with the children.<P>I don't know if I mentioned this before but OW is also married. (40 yrs old, 4th marriage) She also has a 1 yr. old daughter. Listening to her voicemails, I would guess she's in the same spot as my H. (almost manic) I'm wondering if post-partum depression could be playing a part in what she's doing. (not that I really care, but I did work with her and though she wasn't a 'friend' she was more than an acquaintance.) I am also blown away that she could do this to her husband of less than two years. That and on one of the voicemails she talked about causing a 'scandal.' We all work in the same school district, she and H at the same school. (she and I used to work in the same school.)<P>Anyway, it is so much like a soap opera it makes me sick. I can't even watch my favorites anymore. (or read the romance books I used to read!)<P>Again, thanks for your thoughts.<P>------------------<BR>See each day as a new beginning!<P>Cali