My husband and I just started counseling together after 10 months of Plan B. We are to go out solo for the first time together this week. I have to clear somethings up in my head before I see him and could use some advice:<P> My husband has been a passive/conflict avoider all of our 23 years of marriage. He claims he felt he was losing himself and had affair out of unhappiness with himself and me. He felt I was too controlling and too demanding. On the other hand he never expressed those feelings to me during our marriage and kept all those feelings tucked deep inside. In counseling (put very simplistically) we are working on him seeing how he needs to express himself and be happy with himself before he can ever get anywhere and same for me.<P> How can I ever then say I have certain demands in order for us to reconsile? He said in counseling that my Plan B letter was a form of trying to "have things my way all the time". I know this may be a bit premature but if he asks on Thurs. what do I think I want to know what to say. Any suggestions?<BR> Kris <BR>

Well, what are your list of demands? I assume counseling is on there... hes already meeting that. I hope communication is a part of that too,learning a new way to communicate that allows both of you to hear what the other is saying and respect their view.<P>Other things you can negotiate as per the policy of Joint agreement. Try to put it in the "I feel" statemnets. ie I feel if you see or talk to the OW ever again I will have to kill you both. Well, maybe that one needs a little work.<P>Lora<BR>

Is Thursday when you are going on your date? If so, then before you go, maybe it is best to set some groundrules: no relationship talk on your date. Just enjoy each other's company and the time you are together. Leave the relationship discussions for the counselor's office.<P>If Thursday IS counseling, I would express your concerns outwardly there. Make it clear that you are certainly willing to negotiate, but that he needs to express what it is he wants in order for negotiating to work.<P>I (and probably all the other forum members) am rooting for you and your husband. I think you can make it!<BR><P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

I totally agree with Terri about no relationship talk on the date, and to leave it at the couselors office. Go and have a pleasant time.

HI Quakermom- I just wanted to say that I wish that I HAD put more demands on my H when he moved back in the house. He took me out to dinner that night and said all the things I wanted to hear and I wanted to believe them. But he was emotionally still on the fence for several months after he moved back in. He would sleep on the couch, showed me no affection, said he 'was waiting to see if he feelings came back for me!" Talk about emotional torture. If I could do things over I would have insisted we go to counseling for awhile BEFORE he moved back in so I could have gaged better where he was at emotionally. Instead I was so thrilled just to have him back for me and the kids I ended up with him here as a lump on the couch. Of course after about 6 wks of that I asked him to move out again but at this point he wouldnt because he had talked to a divorce attorney and knew it affects his rights to custody if he moved out again. So he refused to leave. And since I am against divorce due to my spiritual beliefs we were at a standstill. Fortunately he is finally now starting to de-fog! So my advice is dont rush into reconciliation! Take care- lifeismessy

Thanks to all who have responded....<P>Lora: A few things I would have to see before recommitting is 1. NO MORE LYING!!!<BR> 2. I would want his password from the computer<BR> 3. I would want to continue counseling at least 4-6 months before we even could think of recommitting.<BR> 4. That he asks for a transfer from the store that he and the OW both work in (this is tricky because his self esteem is very wrapped up in being in the most prestigious store/area and that he thinks that I have tried to control his career other times in the past. But how can I put up with them working together and having a child together!!)<P> Those are the biggies but the work one is a tough one.<P>Terri and db713 - it is supposed to be us going out just to talk Thurs. but I remembered today that my daughter's Spring Concert is that night so now I have to ask for a raincheck or something like that??????? How to do with out being considered controlling... hmmm...<P>Lifeismessy- I understand what you are saying. I do have this slightly paranoid fear that because he lied so well and lying is such a foreign behavior to me that now he is lying and just can't take it financially. I am glad that after he asked for a separation the last time I did Plan b. He wanted to be able to come over and take care of household matters (winterize the pool etc.) and I refused all help. He saw I could do fine on my own (he does pay child support) finacially and work wise (I do have 4 children ages 7-15 and work full time!!)<BR> Kris

How about approaching it from the angle of you need to feel safe, and begin to trust him and build your trust in him, and see if he has any suggestions on how you can assure yourself that he is being honast and not having contact with OW. I wrote my H a letter and asked if we could problem solve on how he could have no contact with OW so I could feel safe. I was pleasantly surprised that he had some suggestions and plans.... changing his cell phone, changing his days off, avoiding her at work, letting me use his cell phone, having the bills come here and let me see them. Give him a chance to protect you and have some imput.<P>Lora

Lora - excellent advice!! You are right I should put it to him as needs rather than demands.

[b]How can I ever then say I have certain demands in order for us to reconsile?[/b}<BR>Need to get him to agree to them without “demanding.”<P>Both of you , in conjunction with a counselor, discuss & agree on “terms.” If the plan is part his, he is more likely to go along with it.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

QM:<P>I have seen both sides, and answer this from a WS-point-of-view:<P>Stick to your guns: is it perhaps a bit controlling? Yes, perhaps. But rightfully so. Without control, you know where that led: but there is a difference in controlling a situation out of concern (rule of care, rule of protection) and out of spite. From the tone of your postings, I do not see the later.<P>He has a lot to prove. He has trust to earn back; and he must, like the Marines in the South Pacific in WWII, win it back a bloody inch at a time. I know, I fight daily for my inch; and, now that the fog is gone, I know that it is worth it.<P>After a time (and if done wholeheartedly with conviction and commitment, a short time) he will feel as I do: his emotional needs are being met, your spouses are being met ... and while there is this overall framework of ... gee whiz, imagine that ... total honesty ... suddenly you find that you don't mind it. In fact, I am quickly learning to express myself honestly for the first time about many things. The good thing, too, is that it does not have to be hurtful, either (rule of protection, rule of care).<P>Zorweb and I have come far; we have far to go. Thank God for MB and Dr. Harley. The reward is in sight, just around this bend in our road: a happier, more fulfilling relationship. I look forward to raising the flag on our personal Iwo Jima.<P>Godspeed and good luck,<BR>STL<P>[This message has been edited by SeenTheLight (edited May 30, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by SeenTheLight (edited May 30, 2001).]