My Plan B is imminent. I'm taking advantage of some near term known occasions when we'll be together to make the last Plan A good impressions. But because of this delay, I find myself second guessing the Plan B decision.<P>My feet are getting cold because of anticipation of my wife's reaction. I expect her to use my "no contact" request as the final justification for her conclusion that we can't possibly reconcile. Further, she'll argue that my approach to "protect myself from further pain" is selfish and detrimental to our son. I know, I know, I know that HER actions are the root cause of any detrimental affect on our son, but I also know she's still way inside the rationalization mind set of the affair.<P>Secondly, does Plan B also mean that she has to finally suffer all the consequences of her decision to move out and I finally get to rub her nose in it? She is already courting my new au pair to gain influence so that she can hopefully convince the au pair to come to her apartment at times so that she can get more nights with our son. Otherwise, her work schedule prevents some overnights for him there. In Plan A, Steve advised me to accomodate this if possible - and it's my choice if I want to since the au pair works for me alone. In Plan B, should I deny any request of this sort just to drive home the "consequences" of her decision? If so, she'll argue that I'm trying to punish her by effectively denying time with our son. My retort would be that she's had almost a year to return and have all the time with our son she wants. But I don't want to use him as a pawn. He always says it's his decision who he stays with.<P>Kick me, please.<P>WAT

Dave, <P>Sneaking in a minute during work hours to post to you.<P>Regarding Plan B:<BR>NO YOU MAY NOT RUB HER NOSE IN ANYTHING!!!!!<P>Plan B is strictly no contact and negotiating through a third party. If you want specifics geared toward your own situation, I would suggest that you talk to Steve and get his assistance in writing the Plan B letter. The Plan B letter is much like a "contract" and must leave the WS understanding that you are breaking off contact with LOVE and to protect that love.<P>My feeling is that if you include something about, say, the au pair, you would have to phrase it within the framework of the Plan B explanation. " . . . So, it is with regret that I must ask you to discontinue all contact with me and I will do the same with you. Any discussions regarding 'son,' finances, the au pair, or other issues that may come up must be done through 'X' who has agreed to serve as an intermediary during this difficult time. . ."<P>Maybe not exactly those words, but I think you get the gist of what I'm trying to say. Plan B = no contact partly to prevent Love Busters - it doesn't make them ok.<P>You know this deep down. You're just so ready for Plan B that you would like to get permission from us to unload on her... alas, in a true Plan B, 'tis not to be...<P>Call Steve. Please.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

I’m by no means a Plan B expert, but I of course have my opinions (and I DO consider myself pretty well-versed in the MB principles, admittedly from the opposite “side” as you). I’ve said it before, Dave, and I’ll say it again... don’t let fear dictate your actions. That is THE most certain advice I can give. There will <B>always</B> be an excuse for not going to Plan B. You then run the risk of both losing your love for your W, as well as crossing that fine line between Plan A and being a doormat. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Secondly, does Plan B also mean that she has to finally suffer all the consequences of her decision to move out and I finally get to rub her nose in it?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I’m sure you realize the difference between the two... yes to the first, no to the second. Plan B is to <B>protect</B> your remaining love... not to destroy all the nearly impossible work you have done via Plan A. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> In Plan B, should I deny any request of this sort just to drive home the "consequences" of her decision? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I would. In Plan B, it’s no longer your job to make her foglife “easy.” <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> He always says it's his decision who he stays with.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Then let him decide. If she truly wants him there, then she can make arrangements to re-arrange her work schedule. <P>Also, when occasions (such as baseball games) arise where you need to both be there, don’t sit with her in the bleachers, etc.<P><BR>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die.<p>[This message has been edited by WhoDat (edited May 29, 2001).]

No to rubbing her noise in it, but yes to her acquiring her own au pair or what ever help she needs. You are responsible for what you do in your house regarrding your son.<P>She is the one that wants the separation and explain that it is her responsibility for making time for her son.<P>You still can't try to educate her. Just explain the facts as you see them. You are taking steps to protect yourself and it is up to her to make arrangements about your s. If she wishes to use the au pair she should be paying.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by worthatry:<BR><B><BR>My feet are getting cold because of anticipation of my wife's reaction. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yup, I know the feeling. I had the same doubts before going to my Plan B. And as Whodat correctly says, this is driven by fear. You have been conditioned during your Plan A to try to accommodate her in every ridiculous way possible, and you no longer remember what it's like to stand up for yourself. See, this is the reason for Plan B, to let you become a human being again, to focus on yourself and to not worry about what some alien thinks of you. The beauty of Plan B is that you will <B>no longer care about your W's reactions!</B><P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>does Plan B also mean that she has to finally suffer all the consequences of her decision to move out and I finally get to rub her nose in it? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes to first, no to second. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>If so, she'll argue that I'm trying to punish her by effectively denying time with our son. My retort would be that she's had almost a year to return and have all the time with our son she wants. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Again, you're worrying about <B>her</B> reactions. Plan B is not about her, it's about you. You will let her responses fall on deaf ears, and you will not to have a retort of any sort. You get to call the shots. I know this sounds very foreign to Plan A veterans, but after I moved into my Plan B, I realized how much of a relief it is. I hate to be the one to say "trust me", but I strongly believe that you'll be amazed at the relief and peace of mind that you will find when you go into Plan B.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Kick me, please.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Did it work? <P>AGG

Dave...<P>You've been given great advice.<P>If you see that the au pair has a chance to be manipulated by her...<BR>...make it clear... revise the contract with the au pair... if necessary.<P>...that... your W... <B>may not</B> acquire the au pair's services! Especially, if it is nothing to do with the kids.<P>I <B>can</B> see some manipulation by her on this!<P>"No contact" is hard...<BR>...but it is a must!<P> <P>Jim

Am definately not a Plan B expert, but thought I'd give ya a swift kick anyway

Thanks all for the advice.<P>Let me clarify one thing. She does pay for half of the au pair expenses - but she agreed to pay half of all our son's expenses in the separation agreement she insisted on. So, should I say "too bad" to her request to have the au pair come over real early in the morning to allow her to go to work an hour before my son has to wake up for school? Clearly not an arangement that makes sense. But I could say OK and the au pair would do it. So again, do I enforce the "consequences" - thus rubbing her nose in it, or submit to an unreasonable request made necessary only by her own decisions - thus making her foglife easier?<P>Steve has reviewed my letter and agreed that I should take a short while to ensure a pristine Plan A conclusion. I didn't think to ask him about this issue with the au pair.<P>WAT

WAT,<P>No no no NO rubbing noses in anything! That is NOT the point of plan B. <P>Are you ready? Here comes your swift kick in the butt! <P>K

Dave,<P>You know what I think of your W & what I would love to say to her, so I think with her (at least on paper) paying half the au pair salary that it might be best to let the au pair do what your wife asks. Of course, you could say that as long as she still owes you quite a bit of money, that she really isn't paying half the expense of the au pair.<P>Do remember that your son is getting old enough to decide where he wants to be? From what you have said your W, is trying or has tried to influence him in her favor, so I don't know if going to war with your wife on the au pair is in your long range best interest.<P>Hang in there. Good luck on no LBing in your last days of Plan A. Know that a prayer is being said for you.<P>

Hi - as someone who has been in Plan B the last 10 months let me tell you what has worked for me. It might not be what works for you..... To me Plan B as a control device does not work. The problem that a lot of us have is that we think we can control what is happening with our spouse now and we can't. That's what people mean when they say take care of yourself. Yourself is the only perspon you can control right now so that is who you can focus on (and your child of course!!)<BR> I think you also have to go into PLan B thinking that it is the end and it is time to move on. What your wife thinks is not important. She is still all twisted up. You have to do what is right for you and hope in the long term she begins to come out of the fog.<BR> I only say these things because after 10 months of Plan B my husband and I just started counseling together. I don't know where it is going but I have seen that he was on his own timetable and that I could never have predicted 6 months ago that we'd even be talking, let alone going to counseling.<BR> Kris<BR> <BR>

WAT:<P>As much as it would vent your evident frustrations: no to the nose rubbing (OK, you can mentally picture it if it helps) ... your whole purpose here is to separate yourself AND preserve the remaining deposits in your love bank. Unloading on her means spending some of that coin of the realm, and she is spending enough of it already.<P>Plan B, forthwith. Protect yourself. God willing, the fog will lift soon enough.<P>Prayers and godspeed,<BR>STL<p>[This message has been edited by SeenTheLight (edited May 30, 2001).]

Hi Worthatry,<P>Maybe think of the au pair thing as you would an employee. Would you want an employee in the middle of this huge fight? Do you think it is fair to expect an employee to bounce around like this? Forget what you or your wife would want...but what is in the best interest of your son and the employee.<P>Personally I would never expect one of my employees to have to deal with the stuff that your wife demands. Also as an employee I would not tolerate that type of behavior. Just think of the mess you had with the last au pair. Are you willing to go down that road again? You already have it documented with the agency why the other au pair left. How many reports do you think you can get before the agency refuses your business? I just think your wife will never play fair and she will always make it a battle of wills to push herself in every level of your life without having any of the asspects of behaving as your wife. Basically do as I want you to do but I do not have to have the same level of behavior. <P>Also just because she pays for half of your sons bills does not mean that she has a say in everything. When she moved out she gave up any right to have a say in what goes on in your house. She is not on the contract. Plus she signed a document stating that she would pay half the bills not have equal say. Who is the primary parent? or are you co-parenting? Who is the primary point of contact when you go to plan B? What are you telling your son? He should be told something by you since she is telling him things.<BR>

Thanks for the added thoughts.<P>Some more clarification: We have joint (50/50) custody per our separation agreement. In reality, it has been more like 60/40 in my favor because of my wife's work schedule. My son's "home" remains our house, but my wife, little by little, is establishing my son's own room in her apartment.<P>Via our separation agreement, I can legally deny her access to our house, even though she's still co-owner and is on the mortgage. She has no legal rights to the au pair's services even though she has to pay half of the expense. She is currently approx. $3000 behind in paying her share of things.<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pahakissa1:<BR><B>Also just because she pays for half of your sons bills does not mean that she has a say in everything. When she moved out she gave up any right to have a say in what goes on in your house.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>My figure of speech, "rubbing her nose in it" was not meant to describe a verbal assult - I know better. What I meant was what Pahakissa1 was referring to - making her suffer all the consequences - in effect, "rubbing her nose in it." Understand?<P>So, those who said "yes" but "no" were answering one question, due to my flawed way of asking it.<P>Also, we will not have an intermediary - all communication will be via e-mail and voice mail. I will tell my son the truth - I am asking Mom to keep her distance from me so that I am not hurt anymore. He has encouraged me to move on, based on what Mom tells him, so I don't expect a severe reaction.<P>Thanks again for all the support.<P>Dave

WAT:<P>Point taken. Rub her nose then, in that sense: yes, she must suffer the consequences of her actions. Whether the suffrance of the consequences shall dispel the fog, only time will tell.<P>Godspeed and good luck,<BR>STL