Hi everyone. I haven't been around much lately, but the circus continues here and I'd like to know, if OPs could tell me, what made you finally "get over" things when the A ended? When did you decide to leave your married people alone? What did they do or say that helped you put them out of your mind? I guess I should be addressing this to OPs that had the affair end when they didn't want it to. Was it respect? Resent? What made you move on? Thanks in advance for any responses. I know there aren't a lot of you out there.<P><BR>Clarity?<BR>(Yes, still the question mark)

Clarity ... I'm sorry to hear that there is still a question mark in your name. I am not an OP, but I sure do understand how they can haaaaaaaang on!<P>I'm thinking that you might have asked this because the OP in your case is still hanging on? Emailing you, perhaps, after you said "stop - I want my marriage"?<P>Did you do an "official MB no contact letter"? Even emailed, it should have some kind of effect.<P>Change your email account name and your phone number?<P>I hope that things settle down for you and you and your wife can find some happiness and stability.<P>Keep coming here... we'll help however we can.<P><P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Clarity?<BR>remember me? scuba? I am not sure if I am one you are directing your question too...I probably should re-read.<P>I too am wayward spouse - still work with affair partner. For me the emotional roller coaster finally took a toll; I had days that the guilt of it all just overwhelmed me; I had other days that I missed Other man so badly that I was angry at how it controlled my day. I am not an easy one to control...very stubborn and strong willed. I was singing with a gospel group and during the early part of the affair would stand and SING - sing about God's love and his saving grace - what a hypocrit I was. I finally quit the group because I couldnt make it thru the songs anymore without breaking down, and the conviction of it all was unbearable. So, I quit my music group, stopped playing the piano and became a recluse for a while. I had to heal and "get my head screwed on straight" again. <P>I would just sit in church and tears would flow...I would play sick and go home to avoid the sermon. I knew - ohh did I know it was so wrong but I still couldnt give him (OM) up.<P>I actually realized that this was destroying me - but for other man, I think it was a game. He says it was never a game for him, but I have convinced myself otherwise. I think my fog began to lift and I finally saw it for what it was - AN AFFAIR. It was NOT two friends sharing a few innocent things (as he had said) (SPIT) SPIT SPIT. <P>It took us more than one attempt to stop the physical affair; but the emotional part had stopped before that and the emotional was part of the fuel for me. I actually finally said to him that I was sorry the entire thing happened; I think he was caught off guard because we shared some "deep" things about our lives. <P>So..that was the beginning of the healing for me - was to just say how sorry I was that it all happened; he has never said that to me and just two weeks ago his wife when home to visit her folks and he remineded me that he was home alone. I encouraged him to order pizza out and rent a movie.<P>He got the picture...but, honestly...it crossed my mind AGAIN....hate it hate it hate it because I knew what he implied and therefore know how hard it is for him too - even though he wont admit it, and I wont anymore. <P>I am about eight months into recovery and if I were to turn back - well, I hope that God would just send a dump truck to run me over - DEAD. I think that I would just overdose on pills than to endure the pain again. <P>I have re-joined my gospel group (thank goodness they didnt replace me) and feel like I am finding my own path in life again. I still havent told my husband but I am working on healing and moving forward and hhusband and I are watching video tape series on building a biblical marriage - well, when he shows up to watch it the series is good.<P>Sorry to be so long clarity but I still have hard days. Still see OM and he smiles at me and it triggers memories that I cannot erase - or forget - no matter how hard I wish or try. But - it is SOOO not worth it; I am so scarred from this and there isnt a day that I dont think about it for a few seconds.<P>If i remember correctly your affair was emotional - not physical. That is harder to me because your mind wanders "what would"...and "what if"...just dont go there. <P>I will answer any questions as best I can if this is the side /opinion you are searching for. I still love my husband and always have - but, the affair is an addiction that I thought I was above getting caught up in. Boy - has this whole thing been a reality check and personal inventory on who I had become.<P>Many hugs,<BR>Scuba

Scuba,<BR>I don't normally visit MB anymore. I am completely recovered now...but I was the OW too. I worked with the OM and tried and tried to break it off. I found it so hard. Working with him and seeing him every day parade before my face made it impossible to get over.<P>You say that there are scars and memories that you cannot erase no matter how hard you try. Well, I am here to tell you, it can be better. I know you think it can't, but it can.<P>I thought that quitting my job was not an option. I had the best possible job. The money was good, there was flexibility, I had worked a long time and built up respect for my work. I struggled until I knew that I could do it no longer. Finally I decided one day and I QUIT! <P>I thought I would not make it....thought my heart would break. Wondered if I would ever find another job...and one as good. Well, I didn't go without work over a week. God provides. First I was able to do the same job from home, and then a few weeks later my pastors wife approached me with another job possibility that I took.<P>It has made all the difference in the world in my life. I thought my husband and I were in recovery because the affair was over. But looking back, I realize now, that the TRUE recovery did not start until I HAD NO CONTACT whatsoever with OM.<P>I encourage you to consider the same.<p>[This message has been edited by Susan (edited May 30, 2001).]

Susan:<BR>WOw...Sheryl (another WS) told me the same thing yesterday...you can read the post that I started to Berry as another WS.<P>I fear you are right, but just like you I have a great job - great benefits and to quit would be a major love-buster. My job provides our insurance, and I have profit sharing, etc etc..<P>To make things worse, I think my husband wants a child. I do think leaving my job would be the best thing, but there are so many irons in the fire.....wish HE would leave. He is an electrical engineer - could get great job anywhere.<P>He has been on vacation for two weeks and I am so much more productive when I can work and not spend my day dodging him. Guess I really dont realize all the facets of this horrible mess....<BR>thank you for that - sharing - you have written my thoughts.....thank you so much.<BR>Scuba<p>[This message has been edited by Scuba2 (edited May 30, 2001).]

I agree with <B>Susan</B> (Hi Susan, it's me, new_beginning with a cool new name)... and have had nice long chats with <B>scuba</B>... and have read lots of your stuff, <B>clarity?</B> (and hoping that question mark gets replaced very soon!).<P>Just yesterday I wrote to scuba and told her the EXACT same thing Susan is telling you.<P>I quit for completely unrelated reasons, but the REAL WITHDRAWL and healing (although for me it was personal healing since my marriage didn't make it ~ my ex-H had two affairs after mine, and three before, and I simply hit the wall). That aside, a story I told scuba fits here too:<P>The day I left the job, the OM came to me and said, "I love you, I have always loved you, I will always love you"... can you imagine my surprise? It had been 18 months since the end of the affair!! How did it make me feel then? Sick, and frankly a little like, "wow, I must be special" <blech>. Now, seven months later, he is still asking a co-worker friend of mine to say Hi or ask why I haven't emailed, and I have NO DESIRE TO EVER, EVER, EVER talk to him or see him again. That didn't happen until I was TRULY gone and could HEAL from the infidelity! To me, in hindsight, the affair feelings, even subtle ones, would have remained as long as I stayed there. <P>Best wishes as you continue to heal...<P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino

Clarity?<P>For me it was as Scuba2 stated an emotional roller coaster. The emotional connection was/is very powerful; two years full of stolen moments of joy, endless days of waiting, hanging in a sort of limbo, love and anger, euphoria and desperation, finally resentment and the first time I thought to myself I hate you I didn't know if it was directed to MM or myself. <P>My moods became eratic, ecstatic one moment and raging the next. My parents had both become ill and then they passed away within four months of each other and I clung desperately to him then. I couldn't sleep at night, thinking about his words wondering if they were real needing him to comfort me so badly and yet he couldn't be there for me. I secretly planned the destruction of his marriage, and when he wouldn't leave her for me, the destruction of their lives. I was taking over the counter pain meds on top of prescription drugs and every night I'd stand in the shower, the only place my children couldn't hear me cry and let the hot water burn my skin trying to get rid of the pain.<P>Then one evening I realized I was on my third glass of straight tequila and it dawned on me that I had been drinking every night for who knows how many nights and I was ashamed and sickened. This is what the A did to me, it brought me to my knees, this is what I did to myself. I had no pride left. I poured the rest out and began searching for that intelligent decent human being I had once been. MM was an addiction for me, the same as the liquor and meds were quickly becoming and somehow I had to "pour" him out of my life before the price became to much.<P>As hard as it was for me let go and walk away, I knew I had to do it to save myself, my soul if you will. I was dying inside and about to destroy others on the way down. I just thought, what the h*** am I doing? I'm not sure what brought me to my senses, but at the moment I was leaning against the counter about to pour myself another serving of oblivion I felt something reach out. Crazy as this sounds I think it was the hand of God. It must have been because there was nothing else to stop me from destroying myself.<P>I must have somehow known it would, couldn't last because I quit my job in December effectively putting some distance between us but it wasn't really over until four weeks ago. I thought I was pregnant and the idea of bring an OC into this mess scared me to no end. What would I tell this child? I decided right then and there to end it and thought about getting an abortion. Fortunately the test was wrong and the horrible idea of killing one of my own was no longer an option. No contact since. He's not out of my mind and I'm not sure if he ever will be and like Scuba2, I know I am scarred, for life and in more ways than one. <P>I'm still working on getting over this, but at least I have my sanity back. The sadness isn't gone, but I've stopped crying and my mood has increased tremendously. I've stopped breaking my dishes (that was getting expensive and in fact I switched to paper) and chewing on my nails. To my surprise I have discovered that I am a survivor and for the first time in my life (almost 32) I am learning to get along on my own. I am capable of so much more than I ever thought.<P>As for respect - after communicating several times with his W, besides coming to see her as an individual I also learned to respect her. That was something I had lost for both MM and myself.<P>Metaphorically speaking I was going 120 mph, about to hit a brick wall and I didn't care. I suppose it was a combination of all these things that finally made me let go and decide to move on. I hope that this has helped answer some of your questions.<BR>

The realization finally crashes in that one cannot sanely be "married" to 2 people. If the emotional relationship with op is real, (not all affairs are about addiction/using someone), then one should care about the other. When the consequences of living (and caring also) with one person and caring about another as much come home to roost (guilt, fear, frustration) and you watch each other emotionally self-destruct (not to mention the effect on others) you realize you must stop, and reconcille your life. So you send the op (or both of you) back to your married lives to reconcille, or divorce, and regain your sanity, and your self-respect. Hopefully also wiser, so such a thing never happens again. If true friendship was the basis, then this is hard and bittersweet, but if you truly care, you do not hold on to something that this world will not allow. As for getting over, that I cannot address, is too current. But getting over/forgetting would seem only to apply to a needy/using type of A. If instead the relationship was emotionally sound (just inappropriate), I doubt you ever get over it, you just live without it if you must. Personally, I am not real big on wallowing in guilt for anything in life. You learn from your experiences and grow (hopefully the right way). Although one can meet and become attached (in a good way) to someone while married, the attendant costs and consequences are great, that this is a very high risk behaviour to engage in. Under most (maybe all, but not possible with messy humans who do not have perfect understanding) circumstances it is best to resolve current marital circumstances before seeking emotional committment elsewhere.

Thanks for your replies, everyone. And yes, I do remember you, Scuba. I'm glad to know you're still around and doing well.<P>Terri hit it when she wondered if my OW is still hanging on. She is. We had a very official ending a few months ago and I have made absolutely zero attempt to contact her since then but emails keep appearing every now and again with increasing intensity. I thought by now she would have disappeared or seen our reality or even started hating me, but that hasn't happened. I don't want this anymore. I wouldn't go back to feeling the way I felt during the EA for anything, and every time I get another message from her it forces me to remember and to feel awful for being as cold as I have to be. I was just wondering what made the other OPs go away in the end. How long can you be ignored before you realize it's over? I don't like doing this, but it's best for both of us. When does that realization sink in?<P>I don't even think she really wants me, she just uses me like a floatation device when things go wrong for her. I don't want this anymore. Don't, don't, don't. I wish she'd do us a favor and move on, that's all.<P>Thanks for your help.<P>Clarity?<P>PS I wear the ? as a reminder of what a fool I was. I know I've achieved clarity but a ? is a hook turned upside-down and it hasn't let go yet.

Back to the original question...The affair was so exhausting. And the OM was having his cake and eating it too (does that sound familiar?)...I think finally when the pain becomes to great..or you are to miserable, you will find the strength in you to finally make a change. Until then, you just keep setting yourself up for more pain and hurt.<P>Hey, have any of you seen the old movie Jane Eyre? Remember she was the governess, but she fell in love with the man, only later to discover that he was unavailable. He had a wife (even though she was mad, and kept in another part of the house). Well, here is the interesting part...FINALLY, Jane had to get away from the pain!!!! She ended up leaving because she loved a man that was not availble and it was too painful. (NO CONTACT it is the ONLY way)<P>And yes, many, many times I felt like the safety net. He kept me around just IN CASE the marriage didn't work out. <p>[This message has been edited by Susan (edited May 31, 2001).]

Clarity;<P>Delete that e-mail box; other man would say to me at work -"I sent you a message - do you check them anymore"? I then responded, no - I dont use yahoo anymore, I use AOL instant messenger, and didnt give him the address. I did uninstall yahoo messenger from my computer - here at work and home and could no longer receive messages. <P>Eventually I decided that my feelings were valuable too and decided to take the extra-cautionary measures and Dr. Harley is right on about that.<P>Delete that e-mail and get a new one; then you will never know if or when she sends things to you. I think though that if you are nice to her - NOT MEAN - but just a true heartfelt of how hard it once was, and the wrong of it all and remind her that you love your wife and are not willing to live in a tangled web, then she should let go. It would be harder for her if you are mean or blatantly rude...but be firm - maybe respond to one of her messages and say that is is the last time this account is being used. I cannot continue contact of any sort. Delete the account then you no longer know if she tries to contact you. You will feel much better when you do. I did; I had kept stuff for over a year in my messenger folder - finally - in one sporratic moment - deleted them all; uninstalled messenger and only use AOL. <P>Good luck.