I need some input/advice on a subject that's been a bone of contention in my marriage for some time. My husband has always complained about our sex life. He thinks he doesn't "get it" often enough...(we average 2-3 times per week). He wants more sex, and he wants me to initiate it more often.<P>The problem is, I work my a$$ of all day, have the major responsibility in all household and child care, along with making sure the bills are paid. I work all week, then do al the household chores on the weekend while caring for our children (ages 2 and 7) I run a Family owned business so I RARELY get a day off. I'm TIRED! lol At any rate, I try and make sure that he doesn't feel neglected in our love life. It just doesn't seem to be enough to satisfy him!<P>He likes to read his Hustler, watch an occasional adult film, etc...I don't mind these things at all. I do mind the fact that I have so much to do, and he does so little..maybe it's a psychological thing on my part?<P>Anyway, I've read the EN section, I've also read the section pertaining to this problem of mine. He wants more sex, yet I don't think he's deprived! How many people do y'all know that's been married 14 years that still have sex 2-3 times weekly? I don't agree with Dr. Harley in his article about me giving in to satisfy his sexual needs, and doing it anyway just to make my H happy. <P>I need to know if I'm wrong here? I'm responsible for shouldering 95% of our household and child care burdens. I've asked him to shoulder half the burden, but he doesn't really do anything to help. My H had an EP/A 2 years ago ( there are some posts here regarding that mess) so I'm still dealing with THOSE issues too. SHOULD I just give in even when I'm dead tired? I get about 5-6 hours of sleep a night, I just don't have the energy! <P>Needing some input here! <P>Cyn

Hi Lili-tick:<P>This is a question I think all wives who work are facing today...the past has imprinted expectations of both husbands and wives that are just not workable in today's world.<P>I've always worked in our marriage...6 years to put a husband through law school...while raising 2 kids....then 15 more years of working side by side. All that time I did all the cooking, cleaning, childcare, lawn work and home repairs while WH....well, he worked hard but his work stopped at the door to our home....while mine had just begun. And it took it's tole on our marriage...resentment, loss of interest in what the other wanted, fatigue...so sex just kinda became not so important. <P>But the thing is that it was important...but we just grew apart...fueled by expectations not met on either of our parts. And I didn't know how to fix it...so I just let it go...until he found someone else. Yes, he was wrong...but so was I. Your marriage can go the same way...but there is help.<P>I recommend you get two books that I think have been helpful to me...."Mars and Venus - Together Forever" by Dr. John Gray, and "Relationship Rescue" by Dr. Phillip McGraw.<BR>Dr. Gray's book is particularily excellent in dealing with what is happening in the situation you described and gives you ways to deal with it.<P>Please let me caution you that although 2-3 times a week is probably greater then average, your H request for more is not unusual and does need to be deal with....please do not ignore it or reason with yourself that it is "too much".<BR>Sometimes I think that this excess interest in sex is actually just a craving for more time, attention and admiration (the books deal with this) and this is his way of expressing that need...and it is real to him.<P>Try reading these books and see if you can find any insight into your problem...I did.<P>Faye

What I see in your post is that neither of you are meeting each other’s emotional needs. <P>You need for your husband to meet your needs for domestic support, affection and conversation and probably a few others too. It is unfair to you that your husband lets you shoulder 92 % of the domestic and child rearing responsibilities. On the other hand, my experience is that we, as women take on all these responsibilities. Then we wear them like a martyr's cape. Just stop doing all the work. Tell him you need him to take responsibility for half of the domestic chores and childrearing. These are not only your responsibility, they are his too. I am very careful that I never tell my husband that I need his “help” around the house and with the kids. These are not solely my responsibly. He needs to shoulder his half of it. With the lack of support you are experiencing it is obvious that you are too tired to enjoy your sex life.<P>“He likes to read his Hustler, watch an occasional adult film, etc...I don't mind these things at all. I do mind the fact that I have so much to do, and he does so little.. maybe it's a psychological thing on my part?” <P>No doubt this is a psychological thing on your part. You are exhausted and do not feel appreciated.<P>He needs you to meet his need for sexual, admiration, etc. There is a very good possibility that if your husband’s non-sexual emotional needs were met; his need for sex would somewhat decrease. Men often seek more sex to try to fill their love banks. There are plenty of people in long-term marriages that are sexual 2-3 times a week. I know of couples in long term marriages that say they still are sexual daily. I only hope that my current spouse and I can keep the spark going that long.<P>So what do you do? My suggestion is that you read the books by Dr. Harley. “His Needs, Her Needs” and “Surviving an Affair” might be two good ones to start with. Then implement the MB philosophy in your marriage.<P>Implement the four rules “Protection, Care, Time and Honesty”. Both of you should do the emotional needs questionnaire. This exercise will give both of you the opportunity to discuss your needs and find a way to meet each other’s needs. You and your husband may want to get some counseling from Dr. Harley.<P>One thing I’ve come to realize is that as women we try to do everything…. Job, housework, childrearing. Then we resent it when our husbands do not help us. They know that they do not need to help because we will do it all. So they sit there and let us. <P>In reality your husband did not marry you to be his maid and nanny. He married you to have a companion and lover. So make that part of your life the most important part. And then tell him that you need help with the other stuff. Even bargain, more help = more sex, admiration, time, etc. etc. If you can afford to, get some one to help with the house cleaning weekly or every other week.<P>My husband and I decided that our relationship, children and careers are the most important things in our lives. If we never had to do house work and yard work again we’d be happy. So we are structuring our time in that order. We have split all house and yard chores evenly between us and our 3 children (ages 11, 12, 13). We have agreed to hire someone to come in to do the heavy cleaning once a week. We make sure that we get weekly dates. Remember that the best gift you can give your children is for you and your husband to have a very strong relationship. The relationship between a husband and wife are the very foundation of a family. If that foundation is cracked, then the foundation of your children’s lives is cracked.<P>just my 2 cents<BR>Z<P>

Hats off to Z for an EXCELLENT, well thought out reply. I applaud your successes, am envious of how well you've got everything to work out for you and your partner.<P>Your solution is perfect for someone that has a spouse that is willing to listen, sees that there are EQUALLY important issues to deal with on the other side, eager to work on a relationship, wanting to save the marriage before something drastic (like one or the other) having an affair to meet needs that aren't being met in the marriage. <P>On the other hand, my experience was quite like LilHick's. H complained of needing more sex, while I was carrying the bulk of everything in the household. Yes, I was tired all the time. Yes, I needed more help and support of my interests. I felt so resentful, angry, alone .. I mean, the nerve of this man expecting yet MORE from me! <P>I voiced my unhappiness repeatedly, always met with excuses. (No $ for sitters, no $ for domestic help, he had to work long hours daily and tired when home) In addition, anything that I did wasn't good enough. He wanted things more organized and was resentful if he had to give his time to anything domestic. Home projects were never started, or started and never completed. Home repairs were never made without endless reminders to him... (then he resented being nagged about them) But he would never allow them to be done by a pro (too much $!) So it became this vicious cycle. <BR>Yet, he thought it was all so simple.. we'd BOTH be happier with more sex. So i just became resentful of sex and intimacy period. This led to an EA that met my needs.<P>The point is, you need a partner that LISTENS to your needs, is willing to read the books, willing to do work on the marriage, willing to have discussions without anger, willing to make CHANGES... not just make more and more demands. Sometimes it's like banging against a brick wall. <BR>My H just never got it. I should have been more persistent perhaps, I should have demanded marriage counseling (or went alone), but the A fell into my lap when I wasn't looking and voile(!), suddenly life seemed rosier. Obviously in the end it makes life so much more difficult, but was a short term fix. <P>Z, your story is a textbook one that required much work. Kudos to you.<P>LilHick, start the communication about feelings and needs with your H now in a constructive way and not nagging. Hopefully you BOTH will get what you EACH need that is currently missing.<P>Good luck<BR>

I have the same problem with my husband. He never/ rarely initiates sex. However, he complains we don’t do it enough. Then when I initiate he complains that we only do it when I want to. If I don’t initiate he complains that I don’t want him and don’t love him anymore. He’ll do things like wait until I’m asleep and then put his arm around me. If I happen to roll over away from him in the middle of the night, he’s furious with me the next morning. I’m so lost and confused as to how to make this man happy. Even if I was to try to have sex with him everyday I don’t think he would be satisfied. That is impossible though, I have two young children and work full time. I’m tired. My husband does very little to help out around the house. He’s usually working late or out at the bar with his buddies. I’ve told him that when he helps out around the house and with the kids that is the biggest turn-on because it makes me feel valued. He takes what I say to mean if you don’t help me out you’re not going to get sex so he refuses. So what options are there? I don’t want a divorce. <P>I’m the WS. <BR>

Waiting2Exhale,<P>You are right that the mine is a "text book" situation. And believe me I thank God for that daily.<P>However, I've experienced what you and LilHick are experiencing too. In 1996 I divorced my ex-husband. We'd been married for 14 years - our situation was like the ones you two describe. The domestic (well except cooking meals - see below) and childrearing fell on me even though my career/job was very demanding. He worked less then half of the years we were married, having quite his position as a senior electrical engineer to pursue medical school. To add insult to injury, I used my entire life’s' savings to put him through medical school. That was not enough for him. He told me that I was an inadequate wife, that all I contributed to the marriage was money. So he felt justified in having constant affairs. And no, I did not withhold sex. If anything I was the one who felt like there was not enough physical intimacy in our relationship. He was and still is just a sick man.<P>So I understand first-hand the pain and problems both of you describe here. Been there, done that. <P>I do want to share with you one something that I did do. <P>After we were married for a while, he started to complain about my cooking. The spices were never right, if the meal had a sauce then sauces were not healthy, if it did not have a sauce (like steak) then it was too dry. He got to the point where he actually threw dishes of food at me because they did not meet his expectations. At first I'd cry every time this happened and try to do better next time. Then I realized that I could never meet his expectations. He was being mean because he wanted to be mean, not because there was anything wrong with the meals. Finally one day I told him that this was his problem and not mine. That I'd never cook for him again. So for 5 years I did not cook a meal in that house. If he wanted to eat, he cooked. During the last years of our marriage I started to cook again. Negotiated with him that I'd cook half the meals. From that day on he complimented every meal I cooked. ;-)<P>This was one of the little successes in that marriage.<P>I realize that it takes two to implement the MB philosophies. Perhaps, when only one spouse is willing to do the work they can slowly work in the concepts. Negotiating with a stuborn spouse that you will give him "x" if he gives you "y" might work.<P>Z<BR><p>[This message has been edited by zorweb (edited May 31, 2001).]

Thank you all for your responses! Yes I have sat down with my husband and requested that we share responsibilities, I have told him, perhaps if I had a little more support that I'd be less tired. I have had the EXACT same experiences as you, Waiting2exhale... right down to the unfinished projects. <P>Right now I'm recovering from his E/P A, my resentment is so strong, however I KNOW that I need to try and meet his needs. We went from having sex once a week to 2-3 times a week and still he isn't satisfied. And I'm STILL holding the burden of responsibility. <P>His main gripe now is he's unhappy because I am unhappy. Yet when I sat down with him and calmly stated my needs, he TOTALLY ignored them, and has basically taken the attitude that I need to get over it. <P>I had a one-night-stand 3 years ago, I know that he is still recovering from it, and I respect that. I'm doing the best that I can and have implemented plan A, he's still in contact with the OW. (not that it's working!) *sigh* I have had NO contact with OM.<P>Anyway, Zorweb, I have DONE all the things you've suggested, he's just not meeting me half way. I have read Dr. Harley's articles, I have shown them to my husband, he scoffed at them. I have even shown him an article about the lack of testosterone in women, and how it makes a difference in their sex lives...his reply...so go get on some testosterone! <P>I have suggested marriage counseling..he is unwilling to discuss it, and without his support in watching the kids, I am unable to go alone. It's been a hard row to hoe! Thanks for the support all.<P>Cyn

lili-tuck, you are the woman! i think your h should get on his knees and thank god for you. my wife also takes care of the childern and household chorse but she hasn't worked outside of the home for over 12 years. partially because she has a bad habit of sleeping with as many co-works as she can. and i'm hard pressed to get sex 3 times a week.<BR>h

Hi all:<P>The first thing that has to be worked on to get your H to help you with the work at home is...of course...get him willing to do so. And that's the problem. You can't force him...you can't bribe him...you can threaten him...and if you can't negotiate with MB then what do you do.<P>I am going to tell you this and I know you won't believe it but the best way to start is to praise him...for taking out the garbage...for taking his dishes to the sink...for any help he gives with the kids...you see, men thrive on praise and the way to get them to help is to praise them...no matter how badly it is done to you...praise them for the effort. This will be a slow process, but eventually you will see him making a greater effort to help. At the same time you will be making a concerted effort to reward him (and using the subtle suggestion that a wife who's supported is more sexual responsive) by being more attentive to him sexually. <P>As I said before, I think often what a man wants is more attention...and a busy wife has little time extra time to give...if he can learn that he can help out a little more and get that extra attention (in the form of praise) then maybe he will.<P>Faye<BR>

I am zorweb's H.<P>We have been fortunate so far, following Harley's and MB's precepts in having a "textbook" recovery. But it is a textbook, not a fairytale. It requires dedication and constant application of the rules and of meeting EN.<P>We aren't always successful, but we work through it (rule of honesty, rule of protection and rule of care apply here).<P>Just an observation: for those with spouses who aren't willing to meet ENs, etc. (Protracted Plan A's and B's)--you have a tough choice to make: (a) stay in an unhappy marriage or (b) get divorced and get on with your life.<P>The alternative to to get caught in the middle ... halfway implementing the MB/Harley tenets. There is no halfway. It must be a 100-percent commitment by you both or it will not work.<P>Godspeed and good luck,<BR>STL

Hey Buffy, you are so very right!!!<P>I know that praise works great on the kids. <P>It even works great on the dog - when he heals, give him a treat, pet him on the head and tell him "good boy". He'll heal every time. lol<P>And I know it works on men. Sometimes we get caught up in demanding what we need. I know I do at times. And you are right, a sweet loving aproach works much better. Men do love to be praised. <P>If what you are doing does not work then stop doing it! Try something different.<P>Z

Again, thank you all for the advice. Whenever my husband has made a gesture in the past, ie..putting on a load of laundry or vacuuming, I've ALWAYS made sure he knew how much I appreciated the effort. I tell him that over and over, there is no way the man can misunderstand me! <P>However, tonight I think I've made a break-thru in our problems. Basically, I again stated my feelings to him..at first very calmly..then more forcefully when he blew me off. And I admit it, I'm not proud, I yelled, LOUD and LONG. I told him if this stale mate continues, that he'd lose me. I also told him that I didn't want to go, but I saw no alternative since he was completely against compromise. <P>I feel that my feelings on the subject are just as valid as his. I enjoy our sex life tremendously, he just feels that I should want sex more often...and until I showed my "happiness" more, he refused to help. <P>Well, I did some major talking to him, I explained that I had been requesting a fair split of the responsibilities a LOT longer than he had been complaining about sex and happiness, why can't he help? <P>In the end, he agreed, to help, and I agreed to make sure I met more of HIS emotional and physical needs. It's been 1/2 an hour since this conversation, he's working the graveyard shift so it was held on the phone. We shall see if he upholds his end of the bargain. I have every intention of upholding my end! I'll keep you all posted on the situation. Keep your fingers crossed, I REALLY don't want to lose this man.<P>Thank you all again, *HUGE HUGS*<P>Cyn