what to do now? I gave him the opportunity to be honest with me up front. I told him I knew he was hiding something from me and I would like to give him the opportunity to be honest. He at first said he did not have a clue what I could be talking about. Then he said someone called him at work a week or so ago and said they saw him with someone else and they were going to call his wife. I asked him if he was with someone, he says no. I asked why he never told me about the phone call since we have a 100% accountabilty agreement and he is to call me the second anything (such as OW showing up or calling) happens. He said he was busy and then just forgot until now. VERY convenient!!! Selective memory! I confronted him about the porno on the computer. He kept lying and saying it was my daughters boyfriend. I had proof. He wanted me to show it to him because he says it wasn't him. He finaly said he had looked but not in a long time. I then mentioned a particular site. He said he might have gone to it but it had been a while. He never would admit to how often or to what extent. He said he had not seen or heard from OW and was not seeing anyone else. He says he will put me first and foremost and will stop looking at any porn. I told him it was the lying not the porn that was the big problem. <BR>Today I found a reciept for drinks at a local restaurant. wine, 2 beers and a mixed drink. It had to be during the day. We had attended a soccer game in the evening. He will lie about it........ I'm just getting tired. I called our counselor to set up a session for me. I don't know how to help him be honest and it is exhausting trying to get him to tell the truth. He is the best I have ever seen and I have seen some good ones. My sister is a pathalogical liar. She has nothing on H. I don't want to give up the life I have. I do not need his money and my children are grown, but I love the life we have built together. Any advice out there?

I wish I knew how to get the truth out of our H's. Mine too is excellent at the trade of alluding the truth. I really feel he is so skilled at telling me what he knows I want to hear that I can't believe what is truth and what is not.<P>I have no answers I know he has to feel safe enough to tell the truth, but honestly he wants to have his cake and eat it too. He would see no reason to be honest, as it is he's quite happy.<P>Good luck

I'm in the same boat, having a really bad "finding out without even trying about more outrageous lies" day. I will think I'm strong enough to handle it, but I'm not. H won't even consider policy of accountability ("you're not my mother!", etc.). It is nauseating. If he told the truth, no matter what it is, even if he did it cruelly, would be better than this continual lying. And I've started to notice a pattern--whenever he's lying most extremely, that's when he's the nicest to me and tells me most that he loves me. Guilt I suppose. It is so, so, so depressing. Any success stories out there to cheer us all up?? I am really just about at the point of giving up totally. I can't move to Plan B because of joint work commitments. I'm going to B as soon as it is possible, though I wanted desperately to be good at Plan A for a while before doing so. Gee, I meant just to commiserate, now I feel like screaming out, HELP!!! At least we know we're not alone in this. octavia99

OK Gang,<P>I could very easily be any of your H's...and I'll tell you flat out (at least from my experience). You can do very little until your H's are ready to tell the truth and face the consequences. Unfortunately I was a slow learner...I had to have my world rocked before I caught on to what I was doing to our relationship.<P>My W tried everything. She would beg, be nice, be a bi*ch, she tried it all. The bottom line is that sometimes I was afraid to tell her truth. I was afraid it would cause a fight, she wouldn't like what I had to say (or wouldn't like me), or I'd be "punished" for my actions. Dr. Harley completely has it right...lies are a short term solution. <P>Our legal separation was final yesterday...it was one of the most painful days in my life and I've regretted being deceitful every day since she left. But that doesn't erase the pain and frustration my W felt from the the lies I told. Many of the lies wouldn't have even been that big a deal if I would have been truthful...it was just the number of lies that got me to where I am today. <P>Show your H's my post. Let them know what the consequences could be. I hope they never fill my shoes. When your H's come to the reality that their marriage failed because of what THEY did, what THEY could control, they will feel pain like they've never felt before and they too will regret what they have done.<P>Good luck,<P>dd

Dear dd, Thank you very much for your response. Yes, my H says he is often afraid to tell me the truth, citing the same reasons as you. Funny thing is, on those rare occasions when he has told the truth about something he knows will probably be painful for me to hear, I have always responded with love, even if I've been torn up by the admission. What I blow up and LB about is the lying--he just can't seem to understand that it's the deception itself that's the worst. Well, to be honest, I can understand why he would have been afraid to tell me the truth about what he just did before he did it, the latest in a series of renewals of the A, in the most dramatic and impulsive way he has yet (he interrupted our work abroad to fly to the capital city here to be with her for two days). Still, I told him before he went, while he was away, and when he came back, at this point, I'm not even going to say do or don't see her, just tell me about it and let's discuss the implications. He's afraid of the implications..does this mean he still hasn't given up on the M, or is he just afraid of the "punishment" thing you mention? thanks, octavia99

This in reponse to Octavia:<P>To answer your question <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>does this mean he still hasn't given up on the M, or is he just afraid of the "punishment" thing you mention? thanks, octavia99<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I really don't have an answer...I am not a WS though I share the "lying" mentality. My guess is though is the his fear of punishment or "he won't be able to get what he wants" fear.<P>DD