AAAHHH!! My husband and I talked again today. He is finally coming out of the fog a bit and it's all for nothing! When we talked today I told him that he is not himself and needs help. That I was terrifed the other day when I saw him pick up our 2-year old and yell right in her face to get away. I told him I was not going to let that continue and he needs to get help for that because I WILL get paperwork and do what I have to to make sure he isn't with the kids until he does get help. It's not going to get better, it'll just get worse.<P>He said he would hate me and would try to make my life miserable. I said he missed the point. The point is that he's hurting the kids and I won't let him, not that I'm trying to get back at him. Finally I think he got it because he agreed he wasn't getting better and that he needs help. He's still not willing to go, but at least he said IF he goes and we are seperated that he wants to pay for it and not be a charity case.<P>Then we talked about OW. He said he found out from friends she will be back on Monday. He wants to see her. She's been out of our lives for almost 3 weeks now. He asked why I was so sure they wouldn't work out and I said because she is an addiction, it is an unhealthy relationship. He agreed I was probably right, she is an addiction, but in either case, he's going to see her. He says he doesn't know what he is going to do or whether or not he is going to get back with her, but he is going to tell me everything and not hide anything from me. He also said, don't worry, I have incredible willpower, I can not give in to the addiction if that's what I really want (but he doesn't know if that's what he wants). I could also contact her and let her know what is going on in the hopes that she will push him away so he will finally get help. What do you think? There's a good possibility she will do this. She is not that attached to my husband.<P>UGH! All this work and I feel like on Monday he's going to go back to fogland and we'll have to start all over. Any ideas what I can say to him to possibly change his mind? Make him realize why it is a bad idea? He is semi out of fog now, so he'll actually listen to some of the things I have to say. Or should I just let him go so he can see if there is a chance they can get back together? I know that is what he wants, but he also knows it is wrong and a bad idea. He really hurt her a few weeks ago, so he wants to know if she is still mad at him. I hope she just wants nothing to do with him, but I can't count on that.<P>The other thing is he's moving out Sunday which means he was supposed to be alone to think about us and realize how important we are to him. BUT if OW is now in the picture, he won't be alone and this whole thing with him moving out will be for nothing! <P>Last night we had sex and he asked "What does this mean to you". I said it means I get to spend one more fun and exciting night with my husband and I am thankful for that. It also gives me hope that way down deep inside there may actually be something left there for me, which you may figure out if you ever get your old self back. He said, yeah, maybe!! Hey, that's a plus! And I said it makes me realize that the problem is not with me and you rejecting me, it's all in your head and with your problems.

Dear Hurt,<P>I am new to this forum..I have read some of your posts...<BR>I dont really understand the Harley principles all that well....But I have been here long enough to know that "I" personally am not a plan A person..I am more of a plan B...so my ans comes from that stand point (I am a stubborn Italian)... Background on me..I have been married 17 years and have 3 kids 15 months to 12. My H had a 3 week affair that ended with OW getting pregnant (this of course while I too was pregnant)I found out (d-day) when the OC was 6 1/2 months old (now 9 months)...we are going to get the paternity results next week. I do understand the betrayal, the confusion and the pain. I had my H subjected to a lie detector test, because in my head I needed to know that he had never cheated on me before, and that this was just a 3 night stand ( they had sex 3 times in three weeks). just like the rest of us here my world was shattered...NOW my h is not confused, and never wanted to leave...BUT I need to be able to trust him..he has a business that requires him to be away from the home at all hours, and he works with mostly women..so how fair is all that???..<BR>Now since you know were my point is coming from...<P>First...the way he behaving to the children..is unacceptable<BR>if he is that violatile(sp) he needs to be away from them ( since he is refusing help)...they will not understand why "daddy" is angry with them..they will sense anger, and they will not verbalize it. Children keep pain inside(emotional) and blame themselves..when things go wrong..even in our parents marriages ( this is a basic psychology fact) I remember a scene in the movie "big Daddy" I think that was the name ( Adam Sandler) when social services came to take the boy away...he cried " I wont listen to that song anymore (cant remember name)..I will be good, please dont let them take me"...he assumed it was something HE did ..I know it is a movie..BUT this is what I learned doing my Psych rotation in school..KIDS internalize this crap...and they dont know how to get it out<BR>your husband need to step up to the plate, and be the parent and the adult...and I dont care HOW young they are...they KNOW...my 15 month old cries when his dad goes to work..even though he goes all the time....this is the part of the plan A I dont understand...The WS is confused..and we coddle, and allow him to do what he wants??? I see it different...the WS is a grown MAN..who is an adult..he needs to pull his crap together..and be responsible...(sorry first generation Italian)...I was brought up to know that there are rules and laws...NOW if my H chose to have a drink and get pulled over by the police and he got arrested for a DUI...can you imagine if our system..said.."oh.. you were confused?? you dont usually do that..OK..you go home and everything will be OK"<BR>THEY DONT do that..they were bad they pay the price...<BR>SO why when they break the rules of marriage, are we <BR>suppose to allow them all this space, and tell them things we are not feeling ( because if we were honest...it would not be pleasent) and trust me my H can attest to that. I guess they call that love busting..I am the queen of love busting..In the past two months..I have looked at my H and said right out loud (not in front of the kids of course).."I Hate you"...because that is what I was feeling...do I hate my H..no ( he knows that)..but what I was saying is I hate what you have done...I hate the pain I am in..and you are a major smuck...But that would be long winded..so I summed it up ( but we have been together a very long time and he knows me)...I know this is not a plan A discussion...I just cant do it..I tried..BUT I cant...and sometimes when I read post like yours ( because I feel your pain)..I want to shake you and say..." why are you putting yourself through this"...so this is were my ans is coming from..ready?<P>WHY? are you allowing your H to see OW ??? Is he convinced your marriage is over? or is he royally confused?..<BR>If he is playing both sides ( fence sitter) Isnt it time to do a plan B...the way I see it..he has nothing to loose...he already knows you are not going anywhere...so why not see OW...what consequenses does he suffer..NONE<BR>( the analagy of the DUI...if you can get away with it..do it)...Is his sex life more important than his family?? <BR>If he feels he is so in love..that his responsiblity to his children and his wife takes a back seat...over above all else...this is not gray..it is black and white...he needs to grow the hell up ( I am probably going to get deleted for that) I guess you can tell I am in the ANGER phase...which I think plan A postpones for those who implement it...you HAVE TO GO THROUGH PAIN AND ANGER BEFORE YOU GET TO FORGIVNESS...( sorry long line of doctors in my family...brother is a Psychiatrist..MD) now this is my opinion..I think what the Harleys have done here is short of a miracle...and I believe that it works with the confused spouse..but if I were implementing plan A what I had left of my self esteem would be shattered....and for some reason I feel all of us women here are feeling the same...and not to "brag" but I am NOT a bad looking woman..( my friends for years nic named me "barbie")...and I am educated (except my typing stinks), have various hobbies, charities and interests.. and I know I am a great mother...so I am not boring...BUT THIS AFFAIR shattered me...I never thought in a million years that an action by someone else ..could have such a profound effect on my self image...And I know I want to protect that...and I also know..that it was my self assurance, and indepenance that made my husband fall in love with me in the first place..he loved the fact I made decisions, and I had a mind...I am sorry I got off the topic..I know you are more confused than that husband of yours...I know that this whole thing has done to you what it has done to all of us...My advice ( opinion) is ...do what you need to to protect you and your children ..because your husband sure isnt. the kids did not ask to be born onto this mess...and we as parents have to make their envoirment comfortable and safe..that is our responsiblity...since your H wont do it you have too.<BR>If your H is planning on moving out..then that might be good...it is reality time..for Mr. Fantasy man...I would not make it easy on him...give him the kids ( dont take care of them for him)..when it is his visitation..and dont sit at home and cry and brood...remember the woman that man feel in love with in the first place.. Get some help with the kids and go to the gym..play your favorite sport..dont completely loose yourself in all this...you cant control him..or his actions ( if he chooses to be a irresponsible..person) but you can control YOU...NOW if he is saying oh ya I want the marriage...BUT I want to see OW....HELLO!! does not work that way...as far as getting the OW to "help you"....FORGET THAT...hasnt she helped enough???...all you will be doing is giving her ammio..against you...do you see that?? she tried to steal your H..and in some way she stole a part of him that belong to you...stay the HELL away from her...she is the devil woman ( OK over dramatic here)...<BR>I just reread your post..you sound like you really dont want H to move out ( and the timing is uncanny, isnt it),,<BR>so tell him you dont want him to move out, unless he feels the marriage is over...I dont know if allowing him to set up a "love nest" on martial funds is the ans. I am not the expert here..I think maybe a call to Dr.Harley...cuz what I am reading is My husband is moving out (sun) Monday OW is coming home. And husband has told you he IS going to see OW?<BR>Did she (OW) give Husband an ultimatium before she left?? is this a leave your wife or never see me again???..and is this his way of proving something to her???..have you and hubby talked about why he is moving out ? if he in fact has one once of wanting to work on the marriage, and YOU dont want him out...isnt this what marriage is all about finding a middle ground??...I would place that call to Dr.Harley...I know what I would do...But nobody can tell you what to do...I wish you all the luck..and you and your kids will be in my prayers...just remember he can only take from you what you allow him to take from you...stay strong...

Hi MC. Alas, my story is a very unique one which makes it all the more difficult to try and figure out what to do.<P>My husband had an EA with OW. His feelings started developing in Feb, he and OW expressed these feelings in April. He told me about it a few days later, they "dated" for 3 weeks, all the while he was confused about what he wanted. They kissed a few times and then she left. That was 3 weeks ago. She will be back on Monday and obviously my H is not over her. Most of their relationship is all in his head, they are not that close realistically. He is addicted bigtime.<P>My husband has had issues with his life for the past two years. I thought I was doing the best I could to combat these problems, but there was actually nothing I could have done differently. The problem was not in our marriage, but other things happening around my H that I could not help. Over the two years he grew to resent me and push all his pain/anger onto me, thus convincing himself that he fell out of love with me and has no more feelings. (also making it okay for him to have an EA in his mind).<P>However, he has never really lost the feelings, try as he might. He has waffled incredibly between the two of us the past 2 months this has been going on. He is now convinced he is a horrible person/husband/father and wants to live in misery. He has deep problems that he needs to go see a counselor about. <P>So, even if OW is out of the picture, my battle is not won. That is the first step I need to take (and you'll see my other post about a Plan B letter if he DOES get back with her on Monday). Then he's got to want to get help and fix what is wrong inside his head.<P>It's very difficult to realize these things. At first I thought it was me and that I could change to make things better (plan A). But for me, I was doing this for two years without realizing it and not getting anywhere. It took the EA to hit before I realized my H really does need help and no matter what I do, I am not going to be able to fix things between us. <P>It is a very sad situation I am in. I only hope my H comes to his senses and gets the help he needs. But FIRST, he has to get OW out of his life, which is what I need help with...<P>