My story is in the recovery page. I was told to post here for more insight.<P>1) I had an affair 13 years ago with a woman my wife knew. It lasted 5 months. I was never in love with the OW, and when caught, ended it immediately. I was always ashamed of what I had done. My wife and I healed and went on to have another child and recently moved into our dream home in the country.<P>2) My wifes best friend threw her husband out this past winter after learning of his affair. Linda was over at our home all the time. They went to counseling and are back together. I could feel my wife getting swept away in their saga. Suddenly,she had tons of questions for me. Questions that she didn't ask back then. I lied. I knew the answers would hurt her. <P>3) My wife exploded in pain and anger. She could tell I was lying. I started losing sleep and couldn't let a day go by without feeling totally guilty. I knew I was still lying to her. But I can't lose her. One night she asked a question pertaining to sex. When I told her we had oral, she went ballistic (my wifes favorite is oral). I guess it was the straw that broke the camels back.<P>4) She has decided that she wants me gone, out, a divorce. She never tells me she loves me, she hangs up on me when I call her at work. She will not speak to me at home. If she does I get called a liar, a manipulater, a cheat. She has told me she wishes she had kicked me out of her life in 1988. She tells me I am worthless and a horrible husband and father. She calls our last 13 years a huge mistake. All of this is killing me. I don't know what to do.<P>5) We went to counseling, the counselor told her to let it go. She didn't/won't. She told me that she will leave, with the kids as soon as school is out if I don't leave the house. The kids are out of school this coming friday and I am sure she will. I have heard her on the phone with her sister, and she plans on going there for a while.<P>What should I do? I asked her to come here and she did, she thought the Plan A was "garbage" and that only a fool would stay with a cheater, then she started yelling at how I made her a fool. The used to be strong and confident, now she keeps telling me how I ruined her life and every memory is crap, worthless and that she wants out. She tells me that since she wasn't worth being faithfull too, why am I crying and begging her to stay? <P>She is really upset and I think confused. Either way, she is madder-n-hell and wants us to end. We have had a great 13 years and she dumps on it.<P>I came home one night and she was burning pictures from the last few years, I was able to get the others away from her. She has been giving away things that I bought her (I gave her an anniversary ring a few years ago and she gave it to our niece, she does not wear her wedding rings anymore either, she says they are worthless). I gave her a beautiful chaise for our bedroom at Christmas in 1988, she gave it to the neighbor. <P>I have tried to bring up good times, like our trips to Texas and Florida. The next day, she will have all the trinkets from those places in box to be picked up by the Goodwill. <P>What can I do? I tell her I love her, and she says no you don't and you never did. I can see her falling into a pit of depression and angst. She has cancelled our family trip this summer, she has literally stopped living. All she does is cry and tell me how I never loved her and how much she hates me.<P>HELP

How long has it been since your wife found out this detail that has made her fall apart? That will tell you a lot.<P>The problem is that where you have had 13 years to deal with the issue, your wife is only now finding out the details. So to her it happened now. My bet is that to her it is almost as though you had another affair.<P>It does sound like she is in a deep depression. Can you talk to her family? Can they work with you to get her some help? Her feelings are justified. I said exactly those same things to my husband when I found out about his affairs. My D-day was March 22. I became totally nonfunctional. I starte on antidepressents in mid April. I am only now getting to the point where the emotional rollercoaster seems to have stopped. I pray it does not start again.<P>I understand where she is coming from. But I also understand where you are coming from. You do love her and your family.<P>You say that she is going to take the kids when school is out. This may sound like a hard tacktic but I do not think she can legally remove the children from the family home wihtout your consent. She cannot kick you out of the family home either. I know that laws in TX and NM are this way. I know because my XH used when I tried to divorce him for physical abuse (adultry was also involved but the abuse was the bigger issue). The courts made me return our son to the home. Since I would not abandon our son, I returned too.<P>Just a thought. You might want to see a lawyer. <P>I sure hope things work out for you. Affairs usually do not break up marriages.<P>Z

She found out 1 week ago tonight. In her mind, she thinks I preferred the OW or I wouldn't be with her. She asks how can I say I loved her and then have an affair. I honestly don't know. It was a huge mistake, one that I never think of. I know I am the one who did wrong, but not only do I not think of the OW, I hate her. Over the years, when she was brought up it makes me sick. The OW is nothing, not even in the same league as my wife. Yet my wife insists that I go and get her. <P>Tonight, my wife came home and went to bed right away. SHe is exhausted. She gets up in the middle of the night and paces the house. When I go and talk to her she asks about 20 questions, then doesn't believe any of the answers. I understand now why. <P>Back then, she didn't ask detail questions, and I certainly didn't offer them up. Now when she asks, I terrifed of her response so I kept lying. The thing is she knows be better than anyone and could tell. The oral sex was the last straw for her. She is really determined to leave. <P><BR>Her sister is an attorney and lives a few miles down the road. I'm sure the legalities have been discussed, but I don't want to do anything to upset my wife at this time. Heck, I have been trying everything to bring her back. <P>I spoke with our counselor tonight and was told to give her some more time and then get tough with her. But how can I? My wife is 100% destroyed right now. I spoke with her sister and she told me to let her come. She will get her out of this funk. The thought of coming home to an empty house is causing me to get nauseated. <P>If I could take that year back, there is no way I would fall like I did. <P>One more thing to ponder. Our counselor told me that infidelity never goes away, it is only a thought away. It is common for the thoughts and pain to resurface. In my case, Linda coming over every day and pouring her heart out to my wife really set my wife back to day one. She learned that we never really got into it. I learned that I had really gotten off easy. Now we are all paying for it. The worst part is that our children don't know what is going on. They are blaming their mother for being crabby all the time. I keep telling them that none of this is her fault, but I don't have the guts to tell them the truth. It would kill them. My wife also has never told anyone, not one of her friends know. Her sister does. I know her sister will try and help me get us back but I'm very scared.<P>The devastation of an affair: the cheap easy sex is not worth the destruction it causes. The pain that i have inflicted on her is noticeable. <BR>

Hi AH,<P>Your wife is hurt. That is an understatement but where I am beginning. I felt that way for the first 2 weeks after d/d. Then I had to start thinking about where my life was going. <P>Your wife needs her space to grieve. She is angry. I am not sure if I gave you this thread about the 5 stages of grieving so here goes:<P> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/002494.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/002494.html</A> <P>If she will not read anything else, let her read this. You both need to see where she is at. This is not you talking, this is coming from those who have been in her shoes. In fact they have been in worse situations. Then give her, her space and leave her alone for a while. When she comes and wants to talk with you and you are able, give her the attention. If you can not, let her know you can't and why. <P>I do know this. If she feels you can handle it, she will throw a lot of crap your way. Kind of trying to pay you back for her hurt. This is not fair but probably all she can do at this point. <P>When you get to a point where you can not handle that, show her where you are weak and need her help. See for those of us where our WS was not cooperative, we had to learn to fend for ourselves. No one was there to care for us and help us stand up and support us. Your wife has your support but is trying to punish you for it. If my WS tried to support me at that time (first 2 weeks), I probably would have given him just as much a bad time. <P>Give her space for now. In a few days, check back with her and gently ask how she is doing, show you care despite how she acts to you. She will come around, she is very angry and needs to get past that stage. <P>I believe that is enough of my babbling for now. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.<BR>

Boy I feel for you and her both.<P>My case was a little different then yours. I found out about my h's affairs by getting his AOL/IM buddy list and talking to about 30 of the 60 women. It turned out that he'd been having affairs with 10 of them over the last 2.5 years. He did not offer any information at all.<P>Here's a link to my story... don't what to write that again...<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000730.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000730.html</A> <P>It seems that he did not want to admit what he'd done and did not want to hurt me. So I had to drag every admission out of him by having the proof first. It was not until after he read Dr. Harley book "Surviving an Affair" that he understood that I needed to have my questions answered and the he needed to be truthful.<P>One of his OW advised me that I did not want any of the gory details because they will haunt me for the rest of my life. I took her advice and will never (I hope) ask my husband a question like "did you have oral sex". A couple of the women were crass enough to give me some details. Those have haunted me. It is enough for me to know the depth of each relationship, the duration of each relationship, what they meant to him (he says they meant nothing and I believe him), and which ones he had cybersex/phonesex/and physical sex with. Before you have any more discussions with your wife you might want to discuss the type of information that is the most useful to her. She does not need to details. As you can already see these are very hurtful. I realize that having any kind of discussion with her right now might be very hard.<P>However, as Dr. Harley says, you must answer all of her questions truthfully.<P>Through these first few weeks, my husband continually told me how sorry he was, how he loved me deeply and did not understand his own actions. Every time he denied something I knew, I'd challenge him until he told me the truth. Like you he was afraid that I'd throw him out. To this day I am very surprised I did not. Actually I think that I did not because I was too devastated to do even that. And I could not bring myself to tell anyone I know of this. We are newly weds and it is just too embarrassing and devastating. During these first few weeks I yelled, cried, even beat on him (not life threatening you understand) a few times. When I cried he would hold me and comfort me. When I yelled at him he would tell me that he deserved it. Then when I calmed down he would comfort me. Yes there were times when he got upset at me, I said some very hurtful things to him (many of the same things your wife said) but I have to say he “handled it like a man”. Eventually he told me that he caused the hurt and that it is his job to heal it. So he would be there to take care of me, even if I wanted to throw him out. <P>He became both the source of my pain and the source of my comfort. Today we feel that because we work this through together be have become each other’s closest friend and confidant. I believe that his “cheating days” are over. He says that my finding about the affairs and confronting him and the women helped him stop a very destructive pattern he seemed to have no control over. He has done some very concrete things to help me feel safe, like put monitoring software on all our computers, gave me the passwords to all his email accounts, IM accounts and computers. <P>We are following the MB philosophy to put our marriage back together. There is a small part of me that knows this could all crumble tomorrow. But I feel that our marriage is much stronger then it was before and that we know each other much better. <P>Believe it or not, I love him more today then I did 11 weeks ago. Why? Because I have seen in him a very proud man who has been able to face the daemon in himself and at the same time help me heal in the most loving way. I wish this had never happened, but it seems we are getting some great rewards for our pain.<P>I am sorry that I rambled on like this. It is too painful for me to go back and edit what I wrote. So I’ll post is as it is with hope that I have conveyed my points: Yes you have to answer your wife’s questions truthfully but she needs to keep in mind that she must protect herself by not asking the most hurtful questions if at all possible. I wanted to share with you how my husband comforted me and loved me through the pain as I think it is a very good example. And I wanted to convey to you that there is hope if you can work with your wife. <P>I know that even the best of us can be tempted and fall. I say of my husband now that he fell from grace with himself and he is now finding his way back. We are all human; we all make mistakes and some poor choices in life. I know that at some point I realized that I could not use my husbands mistakes to hurt him for it I did use them to hurt him he would never trust me. Trust is a two way street.<P>You seem like a very good man who is quite aware of the terrible thing he has done. You, like all of us deserve a second chance. I hope you get that chance. <P>By the way, if you want read some of my husband’s postings he uses the name “SeenTheLight” here on MB.<P>Hope all goes well,<BR>Z<BR><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Each truth you reveal is a step in the painful process of rebuilding trust. I can easily imagine the immense pain your wife must be in. I know I would feel very much the same way she does. I would like to share with you a letter that I found at <A HREF="http://www.dearpeggy.com." TARGET=_blank>www.dearpeggy.com.</A> This letter helped convince my husband to answer my questions with honesty and integrity. I packed up or destroyed many gifts my H had given me over the years. They no longer have any meaning for me. I also have a difficult time telling my husband that I love him. I totally empathize with her opinion that the last 13 years were built on falseness and therefore worthless. It will take and incredible amount of love, dedication, commitment, honor, etc for you to rebuild the brokenness in your relationship with your wife. Take what she dishes out with love and honor. Tell her that you love her and are willing to walk through fire for her and that nothing she can do will drive you away. <P><BR>I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to “look” at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn’t mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn’t he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I’m going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.<P>“You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you’re carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the “STUFF” to figure out OUR reality. There isn’t really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don’t have. <BR>“Now let’s enter my reality. Let’s both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever “feel” complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don’t worry about it, it’s not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don’t worry about it, it’s not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what’s the difference, it’s not important. Then later when I’m expected to “understand” the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can’t just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it. <BR>“So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don’t you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier. <BR>So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn’t come from jealousy, it doesn’t come from spitefulness, and it doesn’t come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn’t it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn’t it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can’t and the reason I can’t is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world.<P>

Hello,<P>Your post is difficult to reply to because, as a betrayed wife, it describes my greatest fear. I did want to reply because I think I can help you recognize your wife's feelings and thoughts.<P>Right now, in her pain and shock, she absolutely believes there is no other way to ease the horrible pain she feels except to escape from the source of that pain, which seems to be you. Therefore, she tells you the marriage is over.<P>She also feels right now that everything over the past 13 years has been false because the rebuilding that took place was built on the lies you told. She is constantly afraid that there are more lies to come, perhaps even more painful than the ones the already knows about. Some of her fears are that you loved the OW, that the OW was more attractive to you, that you stayed with her for the "wrong" reasons (i.e. guilt, a sense of "duty", for the children, etc.), and there are hundreds more.<P>She also feels horribly, horribly dirty. Perhaps your wife, like me, feels that oral sex is the worst part of the affair. Maybe it was something she always considered special between the two of you. If you lied to her and told her that it was something you and the OW never did, then your wife felt it was still something special just for the two of you. She felt safe with it. The fact that you shared that with someone else and then LIED to your wife about it is a double betrayal to your wife. Because you lied to your wife, she feels that you did it to protect the OW and that your ultimate loyalty was to the OW and not to her, your own wife.<P>Your wife now realizes that you and the OW shared secrets that still bound you together over the past 13 years. She feels that those secrets maintained the illicit relationship "behind her back". All of this is horribly painful, but NOTHING is more painful than the knowledge that the man you love more than anything looked you in the eye, LIED, but swore that he was telling you the truth.<P>Your wife feels that you have taken advantage of her in the most awful way- by getting her to agree to stay in the marriage under false pretenses AND by having the same kind of sexual relations with the OW that you had with her.<P>You see, you knew the truth for all these years, and it seems like it all happened so long ago. You have tried (and evidently succeeded well) in forgetting about the affair and moving forward. Your wife feels just as much pain as if the affair had happened only a week ago. In fact, it is MORE painful for her because it is a discovery of ANOTHER affair, one that you had denied. You obviously also realize that the affair was worthless and a big mistake. But your wife feels that SHE is the one who was worthless to you, because why else would you throw your marriage away just for some sex on the side?<P>Right now your wife hates you, but in days to come she will realize that she loves you and only hates what you have done and the part of you that didn't protect her as you promised you would. I say all these things to you because I know her feelings first hand. My rediscovery wasn't after 13 years, only one year. It happened because the affair started again and was discovered by the OW's husband.<P>Since then I have come to realize that sex is just sex, at least to some people. My husband's affair didn't even contain that much sex, but the lies have been horrific. It is difficult to live with the knowledge that I will never really trust him or believe him again. Sometimes it seems impossible to survive this. The lies have definitely done the most damage to our marriage, and it is probably the same for your wife. She wonders how you could have lied to her EVERY DAY for the past 13 years, because she feels that you have. I must admit that I feel that way too.<P>It will take some time for your wife to even be able to look at you, much less to consider the possibility that your marriage might be salvagable. It will be MUCH harder this time than it was 13 years ago. You will need more committment, courage, and patience than you ever even imagined that you had. I say this not to discourage you, but to prepare you.<P>Right now your wife is just as hurt as if you had been continuing the affair for the past 13 years, because she feels that you have. It will take a lot to overcome that.<P>It does really concern me that she is depressed and giving away the things that she has. I threw away my wedding dress, our marriage license, all the letters and cards I had save for over 20 years, stuffed animals, etc. I also locked away my wedding rings and other jewelry my husband had given me to pass along to my daughter in the future. <P>So I did some similar things as far as getting rid of stuff. But I also really considered suicide several times, and came very close on a couple of occasions. So that is a real concern with your wife's present state of mind. Her well-being should be your priority right now.<P>I must say that your story illustrates the need for total honesty more strongly than anything I have ever seen on this site. I live with the fear everyday that something similar will happen to me again, and I'm sure every betrayed spouse has somewhat similar worries.<P>Please keep visiting this forum and let us know how things are progressing. I highly recommend the Harley's counseling services if the two of you decide to save your marriage, but right now your wife needs immediate attention for her own mental well being. Please try to find a good counselor to help her through this.<P>One other thing I wanted to mention is your comment that you lied because you knew the truth would hurt your wife. The lies did not spare your wife, they hurt her more in the end. The truth wasn't the damaging part, the FACTS of what you did was the damaging part. You didn't lie to protect your wife, you lied to protect yourself. Your wife is paying the price for that self-protection right now. Learn from this experience and please don't repeat it. I hope my own husband has learned the same.<P>Best wishes,<P>Peppermint<p>[This message has been edited by peppermint (edited June 05, 2001).]