The past week the roller coaster ride has been unreal. Mean to me on Saturday. Sunday Am I asked her to call me. She called at 10PM after work. I didn’t answer, she called 10 times between 10 and 11. Monday Am I told her I took a sleeping pill and dreamt the phone kept ringing and ringing, how many times did you call? I asked. Just a couple, she said. I told I could tell she we struggling, and that I was here for her if she needed me. She started to cry and cried for 20 minutes, about how hard this is, how tired she is, about the kids and how they are struggling. Last night she met with some girl friends, and toady, not interested in any reconciliation ever, but still has yet to file. She started to complete the En and LB questionnaire for Steve H. but said none of it applies because we never had any trust in our relationship! I was speechless. She does this, revisionist history about our relationship, and its all my fault. But I keep trying to Plan A it.<P>On Saturday, I could see the OM’s beard rash on her face, I want to confront her on this, tell her how much it hurts me. Want to do the role reversal as an example. I’m afraid I’ll LB BIG TIME! I feel like a doormat, and want to file, I’ve had it, but then I realize she really doesn’t know what she is doing? <P>

JK,<P>You are right that she doesn't know what she is doing. That is what you have to remember whenever you feel like this. I've been where you are, and still ride the roller coaster, even though it has been a year of crap.<P>I guess the main thing is, knowing she is like an addict, out of control, do you want your marriage. If so, it is necessary to allow this to play out, while somehow digging real deep and maintaining your cool. <P>This business of "never had any trust in our relationship" bla bla bla, is like you say, revisionist history. They suddenly alter history to match what they want it to have been to justify their current behavior. I've been through all of this, and it is still going on. I think I'm in an advanced case. I hope yours is over sooner.<P>You know how important it is to not LB at this stage, as hard as that is. Do your best not to explode. I want to give my wife a blast of sh$& right now too, because of her lies. But lets not do it. Stay calm and endure the crap because they are like alcoholics...drunk and out of control. Have to sober up.<P>Role reversal doesn't work, from my experience. You'll get some kind of denial or rebuttal.<P>Hang in there and vent to us instead of LBing.<P>

Hi JK,<P>Sorry you are having such a bad time. More fog stuff going on your way. Pray for sunshine. <P>This means that you need to strengthen yourself. You sound anxious and getting a bit tired. This is normal. I am sure some of the guys will post soon and give their perspective. It seems a bit different when the W is the WS than the H. H's don't cry as much nor take care of the children. At least that was in my case. <P>Have you visited your doctor yet? What about your chat with Steve? He can be encouraging for you and help you with a plan of action. <P>I am not sure if this it too premature, but eventually you will want to get off that rollercoaster and not ride with her every emotional whim. <P>You are very keen and analytical on all her actions and words at this point and that in itself may be stressful for you. See if you can pull back a bit. This is hard to do at the beginning but try. Eventually you will be able to handle it better. <P>In the meantime, strenghten yourself. Do something nice for you and the children. Work on your 'smile'. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.<BR>

Rick37,<P>Thanks, I talked to my Brother, his support has been F#*% her, but tonight I convinced him to support me inthe MB program and he agreed, he has issuse with my W and her attitude from years ago. Bu tit was helpful to have his support. Yours too. I am dying to role reverse and will get advice from steve tomorrow, He willmost likely agree with you. Last week she begged me to date, actually yelled at me to, thats the guilt kickin in. <P>Here's a thought, How about if I say to her," I ran into one of your frineds teh other day, I don't want to say who it is, yet, but she was flirted with me, I was thinking abvout asking her out, would you mind?" If she asks who it was, I'll say whats the difference.<P>JK<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rick37:<BR><B>JK,<P>You are right that she doesn't know what she is doing. That is what you have to remember whenever you feel like this. I've been where you are, and still ride the roller coaster, even though it has been a year of crap.<P>I guess the main thing is, knowing she is like an addict, out of control, do you want your marriage. If so, it is necessary to allow this to play out, while somehow digging real deep and maintaining your cool. <P>This business of "never had any trust in our relationship" bla bla bla, is like you say, revisionist history. They suddenly alter history to match what they want it to have been to justify their current behavior. I've been through all of this, and it is still going on. I think I'm in an advanced case. I hope yours is over sooner.<P>You know how important it is to not LB at this stage, as hard as that is. Do your best not to explode. I want to give my wife a blast of sh$& right now too, because of her lies. But lets not do it. Stay calm and endure the crap because they are like alcoholics...drunk and out of control. Have to sober up.<P>Role reversal doesn't work, from my experience. You'll get some kind of denial or rebuttal.<P>Hang in there and vent to us instead of LBing.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Your post attracted me because I feel the same way. Let's yell together. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!<BR> <BR>I feel a little better.<P>DD<P>

HI Orchid, nice to hear from you again, you made me smile, first time today! Priceless!!<BR><<<<Have you visited your doctor yet? >>> yes the day afted D-Day , Celexa has kicked in and working quite well thank you! Its just she really opened up to me yesterday. <P><<< What about your chat with Steve? >>> Tomorrow in the AM, thank god. I scheduled because I thought we were making progress. Duh!!!<P>Good advice onthe roller coaster, I getting off ASAP!<P>You know what else hurts, she is a mess, and can't see it, neither can any of her friends, I want to help her, but I know I can't she has to help herself. <P>When the meltdown comes, (she had one in Feburary which percipitated this seperation), I'm afraid she will end up in the Hospital, I'm concerned for all, espicallly the kids, so i find myself trying to help. <P>JK <BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Orchid:<BR><B>Hi JK,<P>Sorry you are having such a bad time. More fog stuff going on your way. Pray for sunshine. <P>This means that you need to strengthen yourself. You sound anxious and getting a bit tired. This is normal. I am sure some of the guys will post soon and give their perspective. It seems a bit different when the W is the WS than the H. H's don't cry as much nor take care of the children. At least that was in my case. <P>Have you visited your doctor yet? What about your chat with Steve? He can be encouraging for you and help you with a plan of action. <P>I am not sure if this it too premature, but eventually you will want to get off that rollercoaster and not ride with her every emotional whim. <P>You are very keen and analytical on all her actions and words at this point and that in itself may be stressful for you. See if you can pull back a bit. This is hard to do at the beginning but try. Eventually you will be able to handle it better. <P>In the meantime, strenghten yourself. Do something nice for you and the children. Work on your 'smile'. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

JK,<P>Getting family to support you can sometimes be difficult, so if your brother is on board, then that is good. I personally don't tell my family any of the details, because if we reconcile, I want to minimize the damage. However, this also leaves them with little knowledge of how I approach this and why I do any of what I do, so where the happy medium is, who knows.<P>I'm glad you are talking to Steve tomorrow. The whole business of pretending that someone is interested in you is one that lots think about, I'm sure. Personally, if you go by the pure MB concepts, you'd not do it. Just asking for trouble, because it can provide her with another excuse of why she should leave....she might say that you clearly aren't so committed yourself if you are thinking about asking someone out.<P>I also got the "you should date" thing. Of course, because if they are the only one doing it, they look bad. If you started at the same time, it just lends credibility to their current lifestyle, since you'll both be doing it. So I recommend to just not go there. Maintain the position that you lover her, you miss her, you want to work on the marriage, and you have no intention of dating someone else while you are married. This means right up till divorce. Now whether this turns out to be true in the end, doesn't really matter at this point. The point is consistency in what you say, and commitment to the marriage.<P>My wife even suggested that I go out with a certain friend of hers. Blamed me for being involved with our childcare person, and said "I'll not stand in your way". Hello, this lady is married with two kids, and I'd not have any remote interest in her regardless of the circumstances. But this is the WS attempt at trying to make us look like the bad guys/gals. Don't fall for it.<P>Be the pillar of strength in your marriage, regardless of her foolish actions. You'll be glad, down the road, regardless of what happens. I'm one year into this mess, and I can say that it does get easier, and doing your best regardless of what the he$$ she is doing contributes to a feeling of knowing that you did everything, and you feel better. We can't control them. All we can do is try our best.<P>I'm not an expert, but I know that after one year of this, the people that told me last summer that I'd be OK through Plan A and doing my best, were bang on. I may still be separated, and my wife is still acting foolish, and committed only to OM and her new "friends", but I bet I'm happier than her right now. And I'm living in realityville, whereas she is in fantasyland.<P>Good luck with Steve tomorrow, and make sure you have all your questions written down before the session. Let us know how it goes and how you feel after the session.<P>If these WS could only know that they are operating according to a book. They are like robots, with only a finite number of possible combinations of speech and decisions. But they don't know this, and you can't convince them yet.

Right on Rick37,<P>I have no intention of dating, and made that clear to her,it just infuriated her. <P>I broke down and called the MIL tonight, she told me W said I was acting "great"! Plan A all the way! I ask for her to call me with that positive feedback in the future. She told me that she believed deep down W wnats marraigeto work, but is really angry with me for not meeting her needs and not trying trying last yera, Hea, I didn't get it" Do now. Also found out lies W told me about conversation she said she had with MIL but never did, whats up wiht that?? Very unlike my W. She has lost it. How do they come back to reality? I guess in your case she hasn't? I fell for ya.<P>JK<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rick37:<BR><B>JK,<P>Getting family to support you can sometimes be difficult, so if your brother is on board, then that is good. I personally don't tell my family any of the details, because if we reconcile, I want to minimize the damage. However, this also leaves them with little knowledge of how I approach this and why I do any of what I do, so where the happy medium is, who knows.<P>I'm glad you are talking to Steve tomorrow. The whole business of pretending that someone is interested in you is one that lots think about, I'm sure. Personally, if you go by the pure MB concepts, you'd not do it. Just asking for trouble, because it can provide her with another excuse of why she should leave....she might say that you clearly aren't so committed yourself if you are thinking about asking someone out.<P>I also got the "you should date" thing. Of course, because if they are the only one doing it, they look bad. If you started at the same time, it just lends credibility to their current lifestyle, since you'll both be doing it. So I recommend to just not go there. Maintain the position that you lover her, you miss her, you want to work on the marriage, and you have no intention of dating someone else while you are married. This means right up till divorce. Now whether this turns out to be true in the end, doesn't really matter at this point. The point is consistency in what you say, and commitment to the marriage.<P>My wife even suggested that I go out with a certain friend of hers. Blamed me for being involved with our childcare person, and said "I'll not stand in your way". Hello, this lady is married with two kids, and I'd not have any remote interest in her regardless of the circumstances. But this is the WS attempt at trying to make us look like the bad guys/gals. Don't fall for it.<P>Be the pillar of strength in your marriage, regardless of her foolish actions. You'll be glad, down the road, regardless of what happens. I'm one year into this mess, and I can say that it does get easier, and doing your best regardless of what the he$$ she is doing contributes to a feeling of knowing that you did everything, and you feel better. We can't control them. All we can do is try our best.<P>I'm not an expert, but I know that after one year of this, the people that told me last summer that I'd be OK through Plan A and doing my best, were bang on. I may still be separated, and my wife is still acting foolish, and committed only to OM and her new "friends", but I bet I'm happier than her right now. And I'm living in realityville, whereas she is in fantasyland.<P>Good luck with Steve tomorrow, and make sure you have all your questions written down before the session. Let us know how it goes and how you feel after the session.<P>If these WS could only know that they are operating according to a book. They are like robots, with only a finite number of possible combinations of speech and decisions. But they don't know this, and you can't convince them yet.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

OK, I've got to reply again after your response. Just to tell you some more craziness relating to what you are experiencing.<P>As I found out later, early on, my wife, in her delusional world that suddenly developed last year, actually asked good friends of ours to go for dinner, and showed up with OM, then proceeded to introduce them to him, and after that, followed up by phone to see what they thought about him. Soon after, my wife cut off contact with these friends, because low and behold, they did not agree with what she was doing, and gave her a piece of their mind.<P>During one of her last phone conversations with them, my wife told them that she and OM had been to dinner at MILs place, and that my wife's Mom was "very happy" for her daughter for having found someone. <P>This was just unbelievable, and it turned out that there were other numerous lies that she told me about conversations that supposedly took place with MIL. MIL was disgusted with her daughter.<P>Make sure MIL knows that - yes you may be acting great, but that you feel very hurt and it is painful. But that you are doing your best and you want your marriage.....bla bla bla. Just my opinion. But the WS also in a way want to know you are doing great, because it can lessen the guilt, but also, sometimes it can get them wondering what is going on, if you are so great.<P>Anyway, I'm sorry for what you are going through. Expect lies and distortions. It is crazy.<P>Make sure you don't blame yourself for everything. Like me, you may not have met her needs, but choosing to have an affair is not the way to solve the problem. My wife told me "I tried, I tried, I tried". When I asked why she never told me she was unhappy, she replied "I sent you signals". Well, I guess my morse code is not up to par.<P>

Rick37,<BR>Unreal, its like we are telling the same story. A frined told me she met the OM one day at her house, just assumed he was a friend from work. NO one approves, "its just something she has to go through", they say. MIL knows I'm hurtin, the quote about me doing great was regarding my behavior not how I'm feeling. MIL also said she had been feeling like this for a long time and didn't tell me how unhappy she was? So much for morse code. <P>JK<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rick37:<BR><B>OK, I've got to reply again after your response. Just to tell you some more craziness relating to what you are experiencing.<P>As I found out later, early on, my wife, in her delusional world that suddenly developed last year, actually asked good friends of ours to go for dinner, and showed up with OM, then proceeded to introduce them to him, and after that, followed up by phone to see what they thought about him. Soon after, my wife cut off contact with these friends, because low and behold, they did not agree with what she was doing, and gave her a piece of their mind.<P>During one of her last phone conversations with them, my wife told them that she and OM had been to dinner at MILs place, and that my wife's Mom was "very happy" for her daughter for having found someone. <P>This was just unbelievable, and it turned out that there were other numerous lies that she told me about conversations that supposedly took place with MIL. MIL was disgusted with her daughter.<P>Make sure MIL knows that - yes you may be acting great, but that you feel very hurt and it is painful. But that you are doing your best and you want your marriage.....bla bla bla. Just my opinion. But the WS also in a way want to know you are doing great, because it can lessen the guilt, but also, sometimes it can get them wondering what is going on, if you are so great.<P>Anyway, I'm sorry for what you are going through. Expect lies and distortions. It is crazy.<P>Make sure you don't blame yourself for everything. Like me, you may not have met her needs, but choosing to have an affair is not the way to solve the problem. My wife told me "I tried, I tried, I tried". When I asked why she never told me she was unhappy, she replied "I sent you signals". Well, I guess my morse code is not up to par.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Hi JK,<P>Well you are in capable hands. Rick is a man with common sense and good advice. I am also glad you are making progress. You sound more confident with yourself and willing to take the next step. <P>Funny how these so called 'real love relationships' are always based on carrying lies. Like 2 wrongs make a right???? WRONG!!! <P>So you are the one with the sensible mind. See even your friends know the difference and may speak their mind when the opportunity arises. I think the hard part is that many of our friends choose to keep quite thinking they should not get involved or don't want to hurt anyone. <P>This is hard for me, since if it was me to notice, I would say something because I generally am a proactive type of person. <P>Don't have to worry about the lies. They will manifest themselves in time. Even our children know it and will push it back in the WS's face sooner or later. <P>Like I heard on guy tell a BS, not to worry, the OW and WS will shortly tire of each other and then what???? That 'lifetime commitment' ends. What a short life. days, weeks, months..... so what our history is longer than that. <P>So be proud of yourself and best wishes on your talk with Steve. <P>Take Care and keep smiling..... it makes you look better?!?!?!?!.... I'm sure it does! <P>L.

JK - I didn't jump in sooner because Orchid and Rick were doing a great job. I just want to corroborate what you've been told - coming from another guy (Orchid's not a guy).<P>To get some deeper insight, I recommend "Private Lies," by Pittman. This provides some pretty detailed discussion about affairs in general and is a good reference to keep handy on the roller coaster.<P>WAT

Thanks all.<P>Spoke w/ Steve H today, very helpful, Still managed a LB this afternoon, recovered I think. I need to pace myself and be patient and accept that this is going to take awhile and accept that she has been possessed. Steve says her behavor is normal for someone who is doing this. She Denied again today that this is an affair because they we just friends until she asked me to move out. I don't know how you guys make a year? God bless, I don't think I can make it another day when I think aboout them together! <P>I guess I'll be a regular here, Vowed to myself today that I willnot accept my marraige is Over!!<P>Gotta go, be back tonight...<BR>JK