H was very morose at dinner, deep in thought.<BR>I asked him about his day, he was noncommittal.<BR>I asked him what was on his mind, he said "I can't <BR>explain it to you in words you can understand."<BR>I said try. He said, "I am not getting anything done."<BR>(Anything meaning all the plans he has for his <BR>film projects,etc.)<P>I said, this is hard for me. I love you and don't<BR>want to continue to work on our marriage, but I <BR>can't be the reason you "don't get stuff done." <BR>Your children can't be the reason you don't get<BR>stuff done. Then I gave him letter.<P>He read it and said, "so I am supposed to be gone now?"<BR>I said, "I don't want you to be." He continued to say<BR>how this was all his fault. How he knew he shouldn't<BR>be married but got married anyway. How he f****** up all<BR>our lives. How can we fix it? I talked about MB and the<BR>books I have read.<P>He doesn't believe we/he won't be miserable even if we <BR>continue therapy and read the books. ( I am going to try<BR>to suggest that we call the MB counseling center.)<P>He left and took 2 younger sons shopping. While he was <BR>shopping he called me twice to give me updates on his<BR>shopping progress (what's up with that?).<P>So I remain confused, but ready for plan b should he choose it. I made it clear I was not sending him away.-- It was his choice to leave or to work on marriage.<P>------------------<BR>Cali<P>"Humble yourselves, therefore,under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you." <P>1 Peter 5:6-7

That must've been so hard for you. It must be harder still to not know what he wil do. You're not alone is all I really wanted to tell you, nad here is a big cyber hug for you with all the real intentions attached {{{{{{{InShockinCali}}}}}}}}<P>Stay strong.<BR>

<B>Oh my God, I gave him plan b letter</B><BR><B>So I remain confused, but ready for plan b should he choose it.</B><BR>Did you give him the Plan B letter or not? If you gave it to him, you should be in Plan B. It’s not something he makes a choice on. This is what Plan A is for.<P><B>I am going to try to suggest that we call the MB counseling center.</B><BR>I am going to suggest YOU call the MB counseling center and make an appointment. Let him know you are calling and he is welcome to join in.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

[Chris:<BR><B>It’s not something he makes a choice on. This is what Plan A is for.</B><P>But he's acting like he doesn't want to leave now. He kept saying 'I can't fix this,' like he wanted me to tell him we could.<P>He has not read MB stuff. I was plan A'ing, but he doesn't know it.<P>He just called me from the mall again! That's three times in an hour to report on shopping progress. <P>I am so confused.<P>------------------<BR>Cali<P>"Humble yourselves, therefore,under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you." <P>1 Peter 5:6-7

Cali,<P>As Chris has said, going to Plan B is something that you do, and not something that he has a choice in. So, if you are waiting to see his response and then decide how to proceed, whether to accept what he says, etc., then perhaps it means you aren't ready for that.<P>I'd also second that you talk to Steve, regardless of whether you have to do it alone.<P>Your H calling three times would mean to me that he recognizes you pulling back after reading your letter. He sounds so confused and in need of help.<P>I know this is very difficult for you, but stay strong and vent on us.<P>

<B><BR>As Chris has said, going to Plan B is something that you do, and not something that he has a choice in. So, if you are waiting to see his response and then decide how to proceed, whether to accept what he says, etc., then perhaps it means you aren't ready for that.<BR></B><P><BR>So, do I <I>make </I>him go? If he chooses not to, what do I do?<BR><P>------------------<BR>Cali<P>"Humble yourselves, therefore,under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you." <P>1 Peter 5:6-7

Here is aquote fro Dr Harley on Plan B <P>"Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B."<P> If this is your reasoning then stick to it.<BR>

I'm going to answer my own question.<P>Is his behavior destructive to my health and mental state?<BR>Yes.<P>Will he agree to break off contact with OW?<BR>No.<P>Is his behavior teaching our sons the wrong lesson and by letting him stay am I?<BR>Yes.<P>Do I want him to stay out of guilt or obligation?<BR>No.<P>Can I continue to live with his waffling?<BR>No.<P>Okay. He either agrees to stop A and we do a POJA or it's plan b for me.

Hi Cali,<P>..... and now how do you feel? <P>Your H is seeing you take a step forward and leaving him behind. He does not like that feeling. Funny the steps they take. My H did the same thing. Called, checked in without requesting, even volunteered. Hmmm.......<P>But you have answered your questions. Be prepared that he may go to OW as a result. It does not mean he will stay with her. Now you probably are going to have both of them wondering. There conversations may not be in their control since the major topic will be: "What is Cali going to do next?" Hm......<P>Send that LB Fairie over here, I think she needs to make a stop in your area....... Get their gray cells going this helps them come out of the fog and see what they are losing. <P>Stick by your plan B. It will get easier. You are not cold or callous, just firm and cautious. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.<BR>

Cali- ((( )))))))))to you!!!! I know how hard this must be for you. I think its important though that you dont go 'too easy' on him at this point- I made that mistake- my H moved out to 'think' for 3 wks and I still let him come home for dinner most nights and later I found out he was seeing a divorce attorney on his lunch hrs and he was staying at OW's empty condo after she took a job transfer and all the while he claimed he was 'staying with friends.' Then when the condo sold he suddenly wanted to 'reconcile.'Took me out to dinner and told me what he thought I wanted to hear from him- but it wasnt TRULY in his heart. Instead he moved back in and was still waffling--I insisted he go to therapy but he just sat there and often he would go sleep on the couch downstairs and be emotionally distant from me. This went on for 6 wks until he FINALLY broke it off with OW. It was very miserable to live thru and if I could do it over I would have laid out very specific conditions before I let him move back home. ( I even tried to get him to move out again after he was still waffling but he refused to because his attorney told him his being out of the house would affect his chance for custody if we divorced.) My attorney said I could file on H and he would do the paperwork to kick him out of the house within a few wks- but I am opposed to filing first. So I was stuck in a difficult spot. Luckily H is finally participating in therapy now but it was really rough. I just wanted to share my experience with you. Take care- lifeismessy

Cali, we are too much alike! I am writing my plan B letter as we speak (only typed it before) and getting ready to take it over to him. Then I read your post, wow.<P>You go girl! You ARE in plan B, you made the choice, don't waffle. Yes, make him leave, even if it's only to a hotel for the night - make him think. If he chooses to go for C, end it with OW and do POJA after that, yeah, it worked!! If he's still waffling - out he goes. He can get his stuff while you are out with the kids and make his plans.<P>Do NOT back down, it is TOO late. It will not have the effective you need next time if you had to do it again!!<P>Good luck. I wish we were closer it would be nice to have someone going through the same thing to go get a drink with.

He woke up this morning thinking about letter he said.<BR>He told me he felt it was about guilt. I told him it was not and my letter clearly stated that I wasn't trying to trap or guilt him into staying.<P>I told him I believed our marriage could be better, but he had to believe it too. And, it couldn't be better as long as OW was still a part of his life.<P>I told him, as he said, I would be okay when he left. I would want to die and not thrive because I don't want a life without him in it....but I would survive.<P>I asked him to make an informed decision and read the stuff (Surviving an Affair, His Needs, Her Needs, and LoveBusters) that I had been reading. He said he would.<P>In my heart I am in plan B. I have peace with it. He has to make the choice to stay and work on our marriage or he has to go. He probably won't actually leave until next week, but I am no longer going to yo-yo back and forth.<P><P>------------------<BR>Cali<P>"Humble yourselves, therefore,under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you." <P>1 Peter 5:6-7

Hi Cali,<P>You are sounding stronger. Good. This will still be a test on your patience and endurance. Now the onis is on your H to think. Thinking forces them to deal with reality. Helps clear some of that fog. <P>Stick by what you believe you are doing as right. Be resolved in your mind and heart. Then wait and watch. The calm heart and clear mind is real important now for both of you. <P>You are doing good. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> In my heart I am in plan B.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No, you’re not. This wishy-washy semi-PlanB where you let HIM decide if you’re in it or not only undermines any FUTURE Plan B you may wish to actually engage in. You’re showing him right now that you’re not serious about it, so why should he take you seriously in the future?<P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die

<BR><B> No, you’re not. This wishy-washy semi-PlanB where you let HIM decide if you’re in it or not only undermines any FUTURE Plan B you may wish to actually engage in. </B><P>Again, if he will not give up OW. If he will not recommit to marriage and complete POJA, he will go.<P>Life with children is not clear-cut. I must take care and time to make sure they feel safe. I WILL NOT force him to leave his children and become the 'bad guy.' But make no mistake, if after he has read the stuff I have read, if he still believes we can't fix what he 'f*****' up, if he can't recommit, he will leave next week when the school year is over.<P><P>------------------<BR>Cali<P>"Humble yourselves, therefore,under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you." <P>1 Peter 5:6-7

Cali,<P>I think you need to reread what Plan B is... dearheart, he is GONE in Plan B, or YOU are. You DO NOT SEE EACH OTHER.<P>I saw your timeline on the "Peace" thread, and you decided to Plan B a bit soon, I think.<P>Please, please read this again (and I'm not trying to be at all insulting, I just think you might have misinterpreted it) <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>What Are Plan A and Plan B</A><P>I wish you absolute and honest peace, Cali.<BR><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino

Nyneve,<P>I do understand, I really do:<P>[B]Separation in marriage is always risky because, "out of sight, out of mind." Unless plan A leaves the wayward spouse with the impression that returning home is an attractive choice, separation can become permanent. So before implementing plan B, you want to be sure that the last thing your spouse remembers about you is the care and thoughtfulness you offered in plan A. That way, the separation can help create, "absence makes the heart grow fonder." [\B]<P><BR>He has to go. I am just so afraid of being the 'bad guy.' That he will end up seeing this as me making him leave. That is one of his issues: that I make all the decisions. That's why I feel I can't just push him out the door even though I feel ready for plan b.<P>I have sent my letter to his family and mine. I am serious.<BR>The thought of living all summer with him waffling and pining for her is awful. I'd rather he was gone so I don't have to see it.<P>Our counselor talked with me about my self-esteem yesterday, that's probably what prompted me to do it. He is so adamant about not wanting me and our marriage. I just want to push him away now. "Fine, you don't want me so leave." <P><BR> <P>[This message has been edited by InShockinCali (edited June 06, 2001).]<P>[This message has been edited by InShockinCali (edited June 06, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by InShockinCali (edited June 06, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> But make no mistake, if after he has read the stuff I have read, if he still believes we can't fix what he 'f*****' up, if he can't recommit, he will leave next week when the school year is over.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I think that’s my whole point... giving him the letter and saying “next week” dilutes it’s effectiveness.<P>I seriously hope you have done a marvelous Plan A, though... three weeks isn’t nearly enough time to PROVE to him you’re a safe haven, and with that little time under your belt, unless it was a PERFECT Plan A, all this is is an ultimatum... and that’s not good. <P>Hard to go back now, though... *shrug*<P><BR>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die<p>[This message has been edited by WhoDat (edited June 06, 2001).]

<B>So, do I make him go? If he chooses not to, what do I do?</B><BR>Plan B is not easy. If he doesn't leave, then you go.<P><B>I am just so afraid of being the 'bad guy.' That he will end up seeing this as me making him leave.</B><BR>Which is the reason to have done a very good Plan A. This will leave him with nothing but thoughts of you being a loving & coring wife.<P>But he will know why you made him leave. Because of his ongoing affair & the fact that it is hurting you too much. The Plan B letter is to say it is not a punishment.<P>You can't be wishy-washy in Plan B. He needs to understand he cannot take you for granted anymore but you are still willing to remain married WITH certain conditions. If you are wishy-washy, he will not know what to expect from you. You say one thing, but do something else.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>