I feel so betrayed and lost. Yesterday I learned that my H of not quite 6 months has sent naked pictures of himself to a woman he met online 3 months ago.<P>Background: we both met her at the same time -- business related. I had a bad feeling about her from the very start, and I told him that.<P>A couple of weeks later I was woken up by voices at around 2:30 in the morning. When I came out to the living room to find out what was going on, I found H using netmeeting to talk to that very woman. We had a *long* discussion about her, and I told him just how upset I was. He agreed to shore up the "hedge" around our marriage and not continue his "friendship" with her.<P>The day before yesterday one friend (who also knows this woman) told me that she had sent him (the friend) naked pictures of herself. Didn't surprise me. I asked H if she had ever sent HIM those types of pictures, and he said no.<P>Then yesterday, yet another friend who not only knows this woman but is actually "involved" with her.... told me that my H had sent pictures of himself to her, and that she had sent them to him (the friend). I didn't believe him, so he proved it to me by sending me the pictures of my H. He also told me that one of the things my H said to this woman was that it would take a woman of her caliber to make him cheat on me.<P>I confronted him by showing him the pictures on my computer and told him how I'd gotten them. He said it was no big deal; that he'd sent them to her "in context of the conversation they had been having at the time" (she sent him pictures of herself first, so he reciprocated). I asked him why he lied to me when I asked him point blank if she'd sent him pictures, and he said "because I knew you'd be upset", but it wasn't a big deal. I asked him if it would be a big deal if I were to take pictures of myself and send them out to men online. Of course it would. That's different.<P>We didn't talk for another 5 hours. When we finally did again, he did say he was sorry, and that he was wrong for having done it, and that it would never happen again. He also said he would never speak to that woman again.<P>I'm so scared and confused. I desperately want to trust him, but I don't know if I can right now. I think we need counseling, but we can't afford it at the moment, so here I am, pouring out my heart and our shame.<P>Please... pray or light a candle or think good thoughts for us. We need 'em.<P>Thanks for listening...<BR>

Hi Kiera,<P>I am sorry you are having to deal with such an awful situation. Have you already reviewed the basic concepts here at MB? There is also a phone counseling session with Steve or Jennifer Harley that can help both of you. <P>Your concern is valid. My H went out on the internet and met OW and other women. There are sooo many of them out there just waiting for an opportunity to snag a MM. It is like it is a 'personal challenge'. <P>If your H is willing to let go of the OW, you have a chance for recovery. If not, that is where you need to be focused. Steve or Jennifer can help you see what are you choices are. <P>L.<BR>

It absolutely will not end, he will continue to lie to you, and cannot be trusted at all. This is not an event, it is an A it has already started. Read the Harley book (at bookstore if necessary, or order it) surviving an affair. He must be watched and held accountable, if he won't, he must leave. I can't emphasize too much, he cannot be trusted at all, nada, zip, no way. This is just the first of many affairs etc if you don't take action right now, extreme action, you will not only lose your husband, but you will be hurt badly as well. You know his excuses were empty lies, don't go into denial.<p>[This message has been edited by sad_n_lonely (edited June 07, 2001).]

Hi Orchid/L --<P>Thank you for responding. I spent most of today in bed -- not only am I now battling depression over this situation, I'm also 5 months pregnant, which has my hormones zooming out of control.<P>I'm still slowly slugging through all the articles here on the site. I don't want to read them too quickly and not really absorb the wisdom behind them, ya know?<P>What really confuses me about this whole thing is that H's X-W cheated on him many, many times, so he well knows the pain of betrayal. He fought to keep that marriage together, through counseling (secular as well as religious), even though he never truly loved her (he married her because he got her pregnant).<P>We haven't talked about it at all today. I'm afraid I'll only alienate him if I continue "beating a dead horse" -- dead in his mind, since he promised.... not dead in mine, though.<P>Can I ask how you and your H overcame the OW situation?<P>

Hi sad...<P>Sounds like you've been through something similar.<P>I don't know how I can "watch" him as you suggested. I literally can't sit beside him and watch everything he types on his computer. We both work from home, online, on seperate computers across the room from each other. I'm fairly well "nailed" to my chair for 8 hours every day, so even if I wanted to watch him, I couldn't.<P>I don't ... even in the wake of this betrayal, I don't want to spy on him. He deserves his privacy as much as I deserve mine. Even if it means that he uses his privacy to betray me again, I guess I just have to pray that I find out again, the way I did this time.<P>(That happened with an XBF of mine -- he started numerous online affairs, and somehow I found out about each and every one of them, without even trying. Someone always told me. That's exactly why he became an X.)<P><sigh> I know this isn't something I can solve on my own. It's not something that I'm just going to "be okay" about. It's going to take both of us working hard to overcome. I just ... don't know where to start.<P>In the meantime, I know our silences are only driving us further apart. We're not completely silent, but we're not *talking*. He didn't even try to get intimate last night (smart man) -- I don't feel like I can initiate anything when the emotional closeness isn't there. Again, not good for us.<P>We're just existing right now. We're not growing, not living, not loving.<P>Time to read more articles... I'll pick up that book you recommended as soon as I can...<P>

Hi Kiera,<P>You have a pretty user name. I will try to be brief but that is not one of my better qualities! <P>I tried plan A, then went to plan B, told H it was ok to divorce me since OW and H had such a strong attraction. For us, H had to be the one to decide. I in turn had to learn early on that I did not control H's actions. Nor was I responsible for them. The A was not my doing. H was not a communicator although OW was able to get him to say a lot of lovey dovey words. Words he never said to me. Hm.... I am not a needy person, I thought that was a good thing but as needy as H is one of his needs (I believe) is that I need to show that I need him, even though he will make more work for me in the interim. Crazy but true. <P>d/d for us was 11/22/00, H moved out 12/31/01. I also was pregnant last year and miscarried in April 00. H was already non attentive. H did not move in with OW (she was pressuring him to move in with her) but they did have a 3 day vacation one of our favorite sites (Yosemite). YUCK!<P>After implementing plan B in April 01, H decided to permanently come home (I told him last chance - blow this one and never come back) with the conditions that his family's interests would be his priority and he would be accountable to us for his actions and whereabouts. Yes, he could sneak around, I told him did he really want to go there because I will always find out (h is a bad liar). So he knows better. <P>OW is relentless, that has been a battle in itself. Over 30 voicemails and over 50 phone calls, plus many pages most of which are unanswered since his return. She is a bit dense and doesn't give up easily. <P>So that is my story. Hope some of the info is helpful. <P>L.<P><BR>

Kiera<P>I’m responding to you because I unfortunately have some experience with the Internet, affairs, honesty and privacy. So that you know where I am coming you might want to ready this link.<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000730.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000730.html</A> <P>When you read the material on this site you will find that MB advocates a policy of radical honesty between spouses. Affairs can only exist were a spouse has the privacy to create a secret life. At first the idea of “no privacy” might seem scary. But if you think of it, if you are close enough to someone to tie your entire life to him or her, why do you need privacy in your daily dealings? The problem is that lying and secrecy become a habit. So to break the habit both spouses must be totally open and honest with each other.<P>D-day for me was March 22. By some stroke of luck I stumbled on “Surviving an Affair” about a week later. We both read it and realized the level of openness and honesty we’d have to commit to. My husband knows that if he has another affair I will divorce him. He also knows that he is the one who has to prove that he is trust worthy. We discussed at length how he could do this. <P>Here are the things he has done:<P>He immediately stopped all online chatting, emailing, etc. with all women except his mom, sisters, daughters and me.<P>He wrote and sent out the no-contact letters.<P>Deleted all email addresses and IM account buddy lists while I was there watching. Since I am very computer literate (software engineer), I was able to double-check his computer afterwards to make sure the addresses were not saved elsewhere.<P>He gave me the passwords to all of his email accounts, chat accounts and computers. <P>Since he works out of the home. He changed his computer habits. He now spends weekends and evening with me and the children… not on the computer. Computer time is now limited in our family just like we limit TV time.<P>He installed monitoring software (www.iopus.com) on all of our computers including the laptop he takes with him when he travels. <P>He did all of this. I did make some suggestions, some very strongly. Like the monitoring software. But he is the one who instituted all of the changes. For example: at first I was going to sneak and install the monitoring software on his computer. Actually I did, and then I remembered the policy of radical honesty. I removed it. Then gave him a copy of the code and asked that he install it on his computers. It took him a few days but after evaluating the software, he did install it.<P>Just as it is important that he be honest with me, I must also be honest with him. I also have the software installed on my computer. It goes both ways.<P>The MB material talks about taking such measures as a way to decrease the opportunity to engage in secret activities and affairs. There is a lot of wisdom to this.<P>I have to tell you that the fact that my husband will do all of this to put my mind at ease and to rebuild trust is a huge love bank filler. To know that he did things that were hard for him to do, to prove his commitment to me, means a world to me.<P>We have computer usage reports generated hourly. They are either emailed to an account we get up for this and created in a directory we’ve set up. We are trying both options to see which we like best. I probably look at the reports once every day or two. They are easy to scan through. So I spend maybe 5 minutes a day looking to get piece of mind. It’s not a very intrusive way to go. And I don’t feel like a bad guy (gal).<P>Remember, having all done all of this has created a huge obstacle to his or my opportunity to have an affair. Yes he could still be carrying on, but there is not much opportunity. And I am positve that if he continues having affairs, I will find out.<P>I’m at peace with my fears of not being able to trust him. Yes, I do have some twinges of fear at times but I feel that if he does continue to cheat, I will find out. My husband has given me the gift of “peace of mind”.<P>I have found that I love our new openness. I have nothing to hide from him and he from me. I find that this policy has made me a better wife, because I now watch my mouth and actions more closely. If I’m about to say or do something that I would not want him to know about.. I don’t do it. A policy of radical openness and honesty really works well.<P>By the way, before this I was just like you, gave him a plenty of room and privacy. <P>Hope this helps in some way.<P>Z <P><BR><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

zorweb,<P>I read your original post and this reply. Thank you so much for sharing all this with me. I feel like my problems pale to insignificance next to what you and others have gone through, but at the same time, I'm afraid if this doesn't get resolved right here and now that it will only mushroom into something much worse.<P>Like your H, mine also works online from home, and his work requires him to do a lot of emailing and yes, even chat. If the monitoring software were to only log who was emailed or who was chatted to, we'd end up spending all of our talk time with me asking "ok, what did you and so-and-so talk about? what did you and this-other-person email about?". Because of the sheer volume of email and chatting he *has* to do every day... if the monitoring software recorded every little thing that was said, I'd literally be spending hours reading it all, which wouldn't leave any time for us to connect / get reconnected.<P>I'm not dismissing the idea yet; still thinking it through as it really does sound like good advice.<P>The thing I have about online privacy is really pretty simple. My X-H used to read all of my email and newsgroup postings, which wouldn't have bothered me except for one thing --- at one point I was posting to a specific group asking for recommendations for a certain birthday present FOR my H (nothing naughty, it was a "toy" for his car). Obviously since he was spying on me, he found out what I was planning on getting him, which totally ruined the surprise.<P>Along a similar vein, while I have given my H the MB main url and told him that there are some terrific articles here, I haven't told him that I'm posting to the forums here. I know this goes against the honesty policy, but I'm just not sure if I'm ready for him to know that I'm talking about his indescretion. In my previous marriage, "troubles" were always kept completely between the two of us -- needless to say it was a huge shock to our families and friends when we separated and divorced.<P>Anyway.. H has already told OW "never contact me again" -- he did this right in front of me, and then immediately placed her on ignore, so that makes me feel a little bit better.<P>During our long talk the night I found out, I asked him how I could know that this would never happen again. He responded, "I'll just have to prove it to you." Problem is, I don't think either one of us has a clue as to how he can do that.<P>I'm going to think some more on what you've told me, and read some more of the articles.<P>Thanks...<BR>Kiera<BR>

Hi Orchid,<P>Thanks... "Kiera" is the name of a character in a book I read a while back, and the name just seems to "flow" <P>You said "The A was not my doing." I wish I felt that confident in my situation. Is that something you felt from the start, or grew to know/accept? I feel like if I had been more attentive, if I'd felt better, if I'd initiated more sex.... that this wouldn't have happened.<P>We're still on our honeymoon, fer cryin' out loud! I got pregnant so fast (we weren't trying to, but we also weren't trying to keep from...), and the pregnancy, while relatively easy, has had its share of downs. I've gained so much weight (45 pounds to date -- I was already showing at the one month mark!) that my back hurts *all* the time. I've got pretty severe allergies, and since I'm not taking my meds while pregnant, I'm often sick and cranky. He's an outdoorsy kind of guy, and if I spend more than 15 minutes outside off my meds, I then have to spend two days in bed recovering. We're not doing the things that we did before and as we fell in love with each other.... I'm trying to remedy that though.... See, we also met online (neither of us were even dating anyone else at the time, much less in an actual relationship), so we spent hours upon hours chatting and emailing -- really communicating with each other. So this morning I made him a little graphic with the words "On the day that we met, the angels whispered, 'Perfect'." and emailed that to him. Tonight I'm going to initiate sex -- assuming I can put OW out of my mind <sigh>.<P>Last night we agreed to institute a One Day Per Month Without Computers. One whole day where neither one of our computers are so much as turned on (not an easy thing to do since we both do work 7 days a week, but the boss is just going to have to deal with it).<P>It's weird... I haven't told my best friends what's going on, and yet I've poured it all out here. I guess because I don't want them to hate him (the one friend who does know -- because he's the one OW sent the pictures to -- does hate him now )<P>Thank you so much for listening and sharing your story with me. I really do appreciate it.<P>Kiera<BR>

Kiera,<P>Sounds like you two are making progress. I like that your H said that he'd have to prove his trustworthyness to you. That means he is taking responsibility.<P>The monitoring software will show every character typed by the user. As for chat conversations, it will show what he types, then every so often it will show both sides of the converations in what looks like a chat window. (if you pick HTML format for the report). <P>The way to handle the volumne of stuff is that you to search for certain key words. There is no need to read every word of every conversation and email. Over time of studying the files you'd know what to search on.<P>An aside..... I wish I could find a job/position that would let me work at home at least part of the time. Not to be nosy what do you two do?<P>As far as telling your husband about posting here.. I showed my H this site. He's posted a lot here. Actually we have spent hours some times reading posts and both of us answering them. It's really been helpful to us and has brought up many issues we may have never even thought to discuss. It's become almost a marriage building recreational activity we do. He loves to write so he took right to it. I've posted things here that have not been easy for him to read, but with the total honesty thing they are things that I'd tell him anyway. He's a good sport about it. His name here is SeenTheLight. <P>Z<P><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

zorweb,<P>We do online technical support for a software publisher. My job is about 80% chat (both technical and pre-sales), 15% email, and 5% coding (html, javascript, etc.). H's job (with the same company) is about 80% email and 20% chat (and when I go on maternity leave in September, he'll be sliding into my job, as well as keeping his own, so we won't be losing any paychecks).<P>Check out the job listings at <A HREF="http://www.tjobs.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.tjobs.com/</A> (I have no affiliation with them!) -- most of the listings are for telecommuting positions, and very few of them are what I term "scamportunities". About.com also has a section on telecommuting, but I can't think of the url offhand.<P>We had a pretty good weekend, but I think I am going to have to bring up the monitoring software idea. H spent quite a bit of time on an MSN chat this morning (not work related) which made me nervous.... Gads, I wish I could just "get over it". I know how much he loves me, and he's constantly telling me how sexy I am (even with my huge belly!). I think it really boils down to a self-esteem problem for me.... ie, I don't honestly feel like I deserve him.... that he could do so much better than me, etc. The fact that OW is such a knockout (I've seen clothed pix of her) and that he DID send her those pictures of himself doesn't help.<P>Anyway, I'm just rambling now.... thanks again, and good luck finding a work at home *job* -- if you don't mind the occasional loneliness, it's terrific!<P>Kiera<P>